King Koopa's New Digs 3.0 Edition

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

plz critique my terrible p:m koopa. tired of being bad at this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzdDLg1LCys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JcfmemxKnk

http://youtu.be/XRasnyhVKDE?t=6m31s

posted in the critique thread but got little to nothing. help plzzzzz

 

[SFA Smiley]

JaimeHR is supposed to be coming up to AZ this weekend. I'll be at sktar so I won't be able to see it but I dunno Mexico says the nerf hasn't hit him too hard. If his performance lacks... well maybe it'll show something.

 

[GeZ]

Bowser is not fine, he's probably one of the only two characters that isn't viable in PM, the other being Ganon.

Dude, you should see the stuff the Ganondorf mains are cookin. When a character specialist finally hits tournaments with a mastery over all of Ganon's tools, it'll be insanity.

 

[Frost | Odds]

His jumpsquat is 33% less garbage than ours, and his fair is like the safest move in the game on shield. His command grab is way better than Bowser's, and the Wizard's Foot is sick.

Might be underrated imo.

 

[GeZ]

His perfect waveland is insanity. He can cover FD in 3-4 of them. He can auto cancel every one of his aerials. ****ing, ALL OF THEM. His reads are pretty easy and can kill pretty easily.

Most of it is the ninja tech though. Like extended Fsmash straight dodges out of the way of some attacks/ grabs, then pimp slaps the assailant.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Most of it is the ninja tech though. Like extended Fsmash straight dodges out of the way of some attacks/ grabs, then pimp slaps the assailant.

 

[GeZ]

This was talked about. We stole yo character's tech and gave it dark magic and elbow based malice.

 

[deadjames]

Dude, you should see the stuff the Ganondorf mains are cookin. When a character specialist finally hits tournaments with a mastery over all of Ganon's tools, it'll be insanity.

I practice with a Ganon main, he's probably the second best Ganon in the Midwest, and he agrees with me that Ganon's tools are pretty pathetic. So many characters can just completely shut him down.

His jumpsquat is 33% less garbage than ours, and his fair is like the safest move in the game on shield. His command grab is way better than Bowser's, and the Wizard's Foot is sick.

Might be underrated imo.

If you're ever in a situation where Ganon is forcing you to shield you're playing the MU wrong, and even if Ganon does hit your shield with a perfectly spaced fair, there's literally nothing he can threaten you with, you can just WD OoS away, his command grab is not better than Bowser's, it has no armor, more endlag, and doesn't have a hitbox outside of the grab box, he can't even convert it into a kill as easily as Bowser, and sometimes he has to kill himself to do so, and Wizard's Foot is super easy to bait if you stand just outside its range and throw projectiles.

His perfect waveland is insanity. He can cover FD in 3-4 of them. He can auto cancel every one of his aerials. ****ing, ALL OF THEM. His reads are pretty easy and can kill pretty easily.

Nair is his only aerial that auto-cancels, and he has to work hard for his damage and kills because his neutral game is so poor, he basically loses to anyone with a projectile, and/or a sword.

TL;DR Ganon and Bowser are both butt, and need buffs.

 

[Rags]

I feel like the Gannon vs Bowser matchup is in gannon's favor. The priority and range of his moves just beat out bowsers along with him being faster. Bowser really has to play it smart to win otherwise Gannon can call the pace of the match pretty easy.

 

[GeZ]

Nair is his only aerial that auto-cancels, and he has to work hard for his damage and kills because his neutral game is so poor, he basically loses to anyone with a projectile, and/or a sword.

He needs buffs, but his being impotent is overhyped. And I'm not talking out of my ass when I say he can auto-cancel all his aerials, it's true. Just varrying timing depending on the one.

 

[deadjames]

I feel like the Gannon vs Bowser matchup is in gannon's favor. The priority and range of his moves just beat out bowsers along with him being faster. Bowser really has to play it smart to win otherwise Gannon can call the pace of the match pretty easy.

It's even imo, Bowser can wreck Ganon just as easily as Ganon can wreck him.

He needs buffs, but his being impotent is overhyped. And I'm not talking out of my *** when I say he can auto-cancel all his aerials, it's true. Just varrying timing depending on the one.

I'm 99% sure that's incorrect, but I'm gonna ask Strong Bad.

 

[GeZ]

Go for it.

 

[deadjames]

Apparently every character can auto-cancel every aerial.

 

[GeZ]

That was an answer I did not expect. I think for Ganon it's an ease of use off of short hop that makes it immediately useful.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ganon really hasn't been doing incredibly awful at tournaments, not awful enough to warrant saying he's impotent or unusable. Gonna be real he could definitely use some new tools and stuff but I think as is he's just underpowered, not necessarily impossible to use.

 

[Abeebo]

Apparently every character can auto-cancel every aerial.

I believe it.

Also, Ganon vs Bowser should be SLIGHTLY in Bowser's favor, I think. Ganon surely has more straight up KO potential and even movement, but there's so little he can do against good use of armor and ledge tricks. Koopa Klaw alone can eat up every approach Ganon has (except his grabs) and convert it to a gimp kill if Ganon ends up off stage from the grab/attack. Flame cancels, tipped fairs, aerial side b mixups, and good ledge play should keep Ganon on his toes. Small stages are more in Bowser's favor as well. They both punish each other really hard and early, but I think Bowser is just a little better equipped for the MU.

Edit: had the wrong idea

 

[Jimbo_G]

I believe it.

Also, Ganon vs Bowser should be SLIGHTLY in Bowser's favor, I think. Ganon surely has more straight up KO potential and even movement, but there's so little he can do against good use of armor and ledge tricks. Koopa Klaw alone can eat up every approach Ganon has (except his grabs) and convert it to a gimp kill if Ganon ends up off stage from the grab/attack. Flame cancels, tipped fairs, aerial side b mixups, and good ledge play should keep Ganon on his toes. Small stages are more in Bowser's favor as well. They both punish each other really hard and early, but I think Bowser is just a little better equipped for the MU.

Edit: had the wrong idea

I've never really considered Bowser to be better than Ganon. They're definitely much more similar than they are different, but I've always felt Ganon's mobility and speed (in comparison to Bowser) really gives him an advantage over Bowser. If Ganon ever blocks a failed Up-B he is guaranteed a Wiz Kick every single time unless you're immediately going to Fortress Hog. Couple that with the fact that, on a 1-to-1 basis, Ganon actually hits harder than Bowser and is safer when approaching, I think Ganon comes out slightly ahead of Bowser.

 

[Jacob29]

I thought aerials auto-cancelled if you land while in the ending (and beginning) animation of the attack?

So surely that just applies to all attacks.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm not the most frequent nor the most experienced Bowser player, but I feel like the King of Awesome needs some kind of assistance at this point. This far into the meta, Bowser's armor gimmick is not only less plentiful but it's really less useful as a whole now that people have gotten used to it, and while some of his crippling flaws are fixed, I feel like the most important ones that affect him at the core are still presently haunting him. Poor guy...I really think a less laggy jump would be a good start and would do SOMETHING for him. Like, cut his jump to 5 frames or match it up with Ganondorf's. Give him a better neutral game, make him less ledge reliant because the ledge is an even worse place to be here than it was before IMO. Bowser needs to have a presence on-stage before his gimmicks will truly benefit him at this point.

 

[Rags]

Can we all agre that his animation when turning around is AWFUL? I do it on accident in the heat of the moment and I am dead. Nobody else in the cast has an hour long turn animation to my knowledge but bowser. And having safe neutral options would help immensely. Maybe armor on bair? or less lag on f tilt? Making side B safer? I would also think less startup on F smash would be good too. Even if he doesn't get as much power, I think it would be a good punish if it could come out faster.

 

[NickRiddle]

Just give him Brawl- armor.

 

[Abeebo]

I've never really considered Bowser to be better than Ganon. They're definitely much more similar than they are different, but I've always felt Ganon's mobility and speed (in comparison to Bowser) really gives him an advantage over Bowser. If Ganon ever blocks a failed Up-B he is guaranteed a Wiz Kick every single time unless you're immediately going to Fortress Hog. Couple that with the fact that, on a 1-to-1 basis, Ganon actually hits harder than Bowser and is safer when approaching, I think Ganon comes out slightly ahead of Bowser.

DAMN! I had a nice reply to all of this but it disappeared before I could move it to the MU discussion.

HEY SMASHBOARDS WHATS THE POINT OF SAVING DRAFTS IF THEY DONT CARRY OVER TOPICS