Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

[Klimax]

Trend? If you mean internet memes then I must highly disagree, he was cool before meming was even a thing.

Lately, a lot of Waluigi's supporters are just people who are following the hype. Many people that i know don't care about Smash Bros at all but i've seen them asking for Waluigi. He had some supporters, of course, but he wasn't that popular.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Funnily enough the amount of request's K. Rool is getting and his constantly showing up on most wanted lists and in speculation videos is actually exposing causal Smash fans to K. Rool. He's quickly becoming far more recognizable to casual fans now.... it's an extremely similar situation to Ridley.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

If anything I'd say K. Rool is just as popular as Waluigi being how they both have a big name to their series and anyone who grew up in the 90's and early 2000's knows who they are. Also back then Mario, Zelda, DK, and Pokemon were the most talked about franchises. Metroid didn't really become popular again until 2002 starting with Metroid Prime.

I don't think so. Waluigi has been in like nearly every Mario Kart since the early 2000s. Those are big games. He's constantly appeared in the spinoffs throughout. He's a Mario character, there's no competition, he's more well-known than K. Rool. He even has a following among the hardcore.

But that's OK. Waluigi more well known than every single Fire Emblem character, King Dedede, Metaknight, Olimar, Ness, Ridley, I could go on -- basically most of the cast.

Not every character has to have the clout of a Mario character. Most don't.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Lately, a lot of Waluigi's supporters are just people who are following the hype. Many people that i know don't care about Smash Bros at all but i've seen them asking for Waluigi. He had some supporters, of course, but he wasn't that popular.

I could say the same for K. Rool but I've been around long enough to know that that's not true either. Waluigi was pretty popular the fan base just wasn't as vocal before because he was already confirmed as an AT in SSB4 so hardly anyone voted for him on the ballot. I'm pretty sure many were expecting him to be playable this time as well especially with the makeover he got in Mario Tennis Aces.

 

[Opossum]

I don't think so. Waluigi has been in like nearly every Mario Kart since the early 2000s. Those are big games. He's constantly appeared in the spinoffs throughout. He's a Mario character, there's no competition, he's more well-known than K. Rool. He even has a following among the hardcore.

But that's OK. Waluigi more well known than every single Fire Emblem character, King Dedede, Metaknight, Olimar, Ness, Ridley, I could go on -- basically most of the cast.

Not every character has to have the clout of a Mario character. Most don't.

That's essentially what I've been trying to get at. Really the only Nintendo characters that beat Waluigi in iconicity are Toad, certain Pokémon, and maybe Isabelle, and all of that is solely by virtue of being a recurring Mario character.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

I wouldn't say Isabelle. I would say Waluigi and Toad are in a class of their own. I do think certain, almost exclusively Gen 1 Pokemon would also be in a similar tier or above.

But yeah, I don't see really why it matters. Just feels like more gatekeeping.

 

[Banjodorf]

That's essentially what I've been trying to get at. Really the only Nintendo characters that beat Waluigi in iconicity are Toad, certain Pokémon, and maybe Isabelle, and all of that is solely by virtue of being a recurring Mario character.

I doubt Isabelle beats Waluigi at all. Even with her appearance in MK8, Mario characters will basically always have the edge of recognizability with the casual market. They're pretty much going to always be more popular and recognizable than X any other Nintendo character besides literally Link and Donkey Kong.

Granted, I don't disagree that Isabelle is popular. I'm mostly just trying to not understate the hugeness of Mario characters.

On the topic though, what detractors don't seem to understand is that this game is for Nintendo *fans*, not casual fans. It has far-reaching appeal, but roster choices, especially for this game how it's being sold, are made to appeal to fans. Even Inklings were highly requested by Smash fans for the ballot based on any data we can find, despite their recency.

Ridley is a "nobody" to people that aren't Metroid/Smash fans. Literally. K. Rool is a "nobody" to people who didn't play DKC, though he's probably a more recognizable character to most casuals because of how much more popular DKC is than Metroid.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I never got why K. Rool is the only one who has his popularity constantly questioned when you can make the same kind of "X isn't really popular, it's just a vocal minority" towards other characters.

 

[StormC]

I grew up on Nintendo and I didn't even know who was until Brawl speculation.

 

[Organization XIII]

I never got why K. Rool is the only one who has his popularity constantly questioned when you can make the same kind of "X isn't really popular, it's just a vocal minority" towards other characters.

People question the popularity of every character

 

[IMainKingKRool]

Back around Brawl's release, I was as "casual" as it got, loved Nintendo but had never played a Metroid game, and had no idea who Ridley was when I first encountered him in Subspace Emissary. I'm sure I'm not alone in that either. And yet he was popular enough among Smash fans to be given special treatment throughout the series and a playable incarnation in the most recent game.
People can go on and on about how K. Rool is a "literally who" for more casual players who never played the old-school DKCs, but the fact stands that he, like pre-Ultimate Ridley, is a huge presence among the more involved fans. Now that the "it's popular therefore I hate it" crowd have lost their biggest scapegoat, K. Rool is the next easiest target.

 

[Captain Shades]

This community seems cool!

Sorry, new to Smash Boards.

Krool, at least from my perspective is an interesting case. Now I’m a 2000s baby, so I missed out on Krool. I’ve known who he is, but his lack of appearances really hurts my ability to fully grasp the character, unlike many people on this board.

Honestly, I find his base game chances very low. I actually believe Nintendo should wait on him as the base game should be revolving around the past 4 years. Many franchises have hit peaks or been developed, so I think Smash should revolve around; Super Mario Odessey, The Legend of Zelda BOTW, Splatoon (franchise), Kirby’s 3DS titles, Pokémon Go, Pokémon Sun and Moon, Fire Emblem Echoes, Tropical Freeze, ARMS, Hyrule Warriors, Metroid (franchise), and Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

Smash usually promotes newer titles, so I feel they should focus on the new, especially now. I’m a camp counselor, so I’m around kids all the time, and I’ve never seen the children talk about Nintendo as much as they do now. They love Odessey and systems like the 3DS, the Switch, hell even the Wii U has gotten some mentions. I’ve never heard kids talk about Nintendo there for years, yet kids who seemed to have no interest previous years are now carrying Switches and playing Mario.

I bring this up as I feel some fans don’t understand what a Nintendo fan is. The roster wasn’t and really shouldn’t be made to appease fans who have been with the company for years. Most likely Nintendo will already get your money and support no matter what. And not including SNES characters isn’t a spit in the face as they keep the older fighters. What I want is for the kids I mentioned above to get interested in the franchise. I would probably say none of them know who Krool is, but someone like Dixie stacks up better for them as she’s in a Switch title. Even characters they don’t know are better newer as they can grab something like Echoes off the shelf easily thus getting them more involved with franchises. I actually became a Nintendo fan due to Smash as I saw Meta Knight as a new fighter and went out to buy DS Kirby titles with him in it.

Now do I believe Krool should be left out completely, of course not. I feel he would make for an excellent DLC character. He could be a Smash Ballot pick and maybe be set up to advertise a new ballot. His inclusion then would be very cool as even if Nintendo never uses him again, they won’t be wasting money advertising a ‘dead’ character as the fans will basically pay for his inclusion and that would beef up the Nintendo is listening message for a new ballot (which will definitely happen, let’s be honest).

Sorry for the long text, but I feel that’s how he should be implemented. I want new fans, not just the same ones, and including characters that fit more in line with the newest titles would increase the chances of the young crowd getting involved with the company as they have characters they recognize. People say that the Smash player base peaked with Wii U and 3DS, but I don’t buy that, with so many new fans coming as children buy the Switch, I feel the potential for numbers to go up is better than it has ever been

 

[StormC]

I actually believe Nintendo should wait on him as the base game should be revolving around the past 4 years. Many franchises have hit peaks or been developed, so I think Smash should revolve around; Super Mario Odessey, The Legend of Zelda BOTW, Splatoon (franchise), Kirby’s 3DS titles, Pokémon Go, Pokémon Sun and Moon, Fire Emblem Echoes, Tropical Freeze, ARMS, Hyrule Warriors, Metroid (franchise), and Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

The issue with this line of thinking is the first completed proposal for Smash Ultimate was in December 2015 - two months after the Smash Ballot closed and during a very empty time period for Nintendo's games. It's likely most of the characters in the game were already decided at this point in time. So new characters from later on are probably not going to be in the base game anyway, or were even on Sakurai's mind at the time of development. All signs point to this game focusing on fanservice with the choice to bring back every veteran and the addition of Ridley, a popular character that was explicitly rejected twice.

I'm frankly not that interested in whether or not Nintendo uses Smash to advertise their games. Nintendo is a corporation with billions of dollar of revenue. They should be making me care about their products, not vice versa. They aren't some little upstart who needs their IPs to get as much attention as possible. They're a titan in the industry and the Switch is insanely successful. Their games will be fine.

I bring this up as I feel some fans don’t understand what a Nintendo fan is. The roster wasn’t and really shouldn’t be made to appease fans who have been with the company for years.

Not sure what this implies. Older fans should just be happy and let kids get what they want? Smash is a 20 year franchise, it's healthy, in fact necessary, for series like these to maintain their original consumer base while also expanding into newer demographics.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

This community seems cool!

Sorry, new to Smash Boards.

Krool, at least from my perspective is an interesting case. Now I’m a 2000s baby, so I missed out on Krool. I’ve known who he is, but his lack of appearances really hurts my ability to fully grasp the character, unlike many people on this board.

Honestly, I find his base game chances very low. I actually believe Nintendo should wait on him as the base game should be revolving around the past 4 years. Many franchises have hit peaks or been developed, so I think Smash should revolve around; Super Mario Odessey, The Legend of Zelda BOTW, Splatoon (franchise), Kirby’s 3DS titles, Pokémon Go, Pokémon Sun and Moon, Fire Emblem Echoes, Tropical Freeze, ARMS, Hyrule Warriors, Metroid (franchise), and Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

Smash usually promotes newer titles, so I feel they should focus on the new, especially now. I’m a camp counselor, so I’m around kids all the time, and I’ve never seen the children talk about Nintendo as much as they do now. They love Odessey and systems like the 3DS, the Switch, hell even the Wii U has gotten some mentions. I’ve never heard kids talk about Nintendo there for years, yet kids who seemed to have no interest previous years are now carrying Switches and playing Mario.

I bring this up as I feel some fans don’t understand what a Nintendo fan is. The roster wasn’t and really shouldn’t be made to appease fans who have been with the company for years. Most likely Nintendo will already get your money and support no matter what. And not including SNES characters isn’t a spit in the face as they keep the older fighters. What I want is for the kids I mentioned above to get interested in the franchise. I would probably say none of them know who Krool is, but someone like Dixie stacks up better for them as she’s in a Switch title. Even characters they don’t know are better newer as they can grab something like Echoes off the shelf easily thus getting them more involved with franchises. I actually became a Nintendo fan due to Smash as I saw Meta Knight as a new fighter and went out to buy DS Kirby titles with him in it.

Now do I believe Krool should be left out completely, of course not. I feel he would make for an excellent DLC character. He could be a Smash Ballot pick and maybe be set up to advertise a new ballot. His inclusion then would be very cool as even if Nintendo never uses him again, they won’t be wasting money advertising a ‘dead’ character as the fans will basically pay for his inclusion and that would beef up the Nintendo is listening message for a new ballot (which will definitely happen, let’s be honest).

Sorry for the long text, but I feel that’s how he should be implemented. I want new fans, not just the same ones, and including characters that fit more in line with the newest titles would increase the chances of the young crowd getting involved with the company as they have characters they recognize. People say that the Smash player base peaked with Wii U and 3DS, but I don’t buy that, with so many new fans coming as children buy the Switch, I feel the potential for numbers to go up is better than it has ever been

Welcome to the board.

First, being in a new game doesn't mean you are recognizable to young people. It doesn't mean you are more recognizable than older characters either. It can mean that. But it's not the same thing.

You also have to remember that marketing isn't just about getting newer fans but also regaining older fans with nostalgia. Just look at Pokemon. They've leaned in hard on Gen1, which was approximately 20 years ago, because people's memories are valuable.

In any case, do you really think we should be roleplaying nintendo marketers when we decide what character we want? It would be so boring if Smash Bros roster leaned so hard into a particular view of what helps Nintendo maximize profits. I think Sakurai does care about "relevance" for some of the reasons you mentioned but it isn't the end all be all. He's a creator and while he balances business decisions, he doesn't behave like a cutthroat Nintendo investor. And that's a good thing.

Just think of so many of the value characters we could have missed out on if we had followed through with your suggestion. Characters like Palutena for example, came from a niche series even if it was "relevant" at the time. I really doubt her series has ever or will ever be popular with kids. In fact, her series hasn't had a new game since 2012. It's been a long time -- nonetheless, she's a meaningful character addition to many. And it was nice to see her return. It's more interesting to pick character holistically instead of through this lens you suggest, a particular and limited view of what can be/should be advertised.

 

[Deleted member]

Also yes, Walugi is more popular than K. Rool. But who cares? K. Rool is as popular or more popular than characters we already have in Smash like Ridley, Palutena, Shulk, etc. There's so much "what will the casuals think" gatekeeping by people when the roster is full of "nobodies" from a casual point of view. Dumb.

The "casual/normies" arguments that people use against the likes of K. Rool are nothing but a boogeyman conspiracy, honestly.

 

[SeasideKingDumb]

Yeah people need to stop using the "relevancy" argument as it even matters. Ridley was insanely popular as a fan request, no doubt, but if Nintendo was only looking for the "most relevant characters" in this game he wouldn't have made the cut.

Smash 4 was heavily pushing modern characters because Nintendo was in a terrible situation. There were widely publicized news articles calling for Nintendo to quit the hardware market, saying they were gonna be Sega 2.0, and to give their properties to Microsoft and Sony. Smash 4, while a fantastic game in its own right, was definitely being used as a publicity platform for the Wii U. A lot of the newcomers (like Little Mac) weren't necessarily big names, but a majority of the characters were either from super recent releases or were blatantly cross-promotions. And I'm sure Bayonetta did super well in the ballot but, in my opinion, it's pretty clear that they chose her since she was both a character Nintendo could market other games with and that she was recognizable to Wii U owners. They explained this as Winning the Ballot in Europe, which is an accomplishment for sure, but they could've easily picked the number one character in Japan or North America, and they didn't.

Smash 5 definitely seems to be a game designed specifically for the Smash community as a whole. I am nearly 100% confident that the idea of bringing back a character like Young Link in Smash 4 would've been immediately shot down since Smash Bros, at the time, was Nintendo's way of trying to get people on board with their new franchises. The fact that they went out of their way to bring back ALL the characters in Smash history really goes to show that things are going to be different this time. This entire game seems to be Sakurai's own vision. Bringing back all the characters was his idea, he personally got a lot of requests for Ridley and literally went against his own words to make him work, and every detail in the game seems to be making the characters feel more like their actual games. Donkey Kong's new eye bulging detail is super unnecessary but it adds so much to his character and differentiates him from "Just a gorilla" like the past games.

I feel like a lot of character "detractors" are still thinking in the same way that Smash 4 worked. I will admit that I was waaaay too optimistic back in the Smash 4 days because I thought the ballot was going to have more than one new character. But what the Smash team this time around has done was basically flip character speculation on its head. Literally anything is possible, now. Finding a pattern with the Smash Bros team or Sakurai is impossible, because it seems like every big statement he has made in terms of character speculation has been proven wrong with each installment (except for the "has to originate from a game rule," which seems consistent, but for all we know it could flip on its head too).

So, basically this whole wall of text is just saying to everyone that before you go bashing a character or even just predicting who the next character will be, just know that Smash 5 is an entirely different beast. No more 3DS limitations and no more patterns. Nobody should be bashing any fanbase for characters, not only because it's rude, but also because, as of now, all we have is hope for our own preferred characters (except Simon Belmont if that leak is accurate, which even that character choice doesn't follow any patterns).

 

[Captain Shades]

Yeah, I can agree. Sorry never meant to imply Smash was a commercial.

I don’t think Smash should lean on nostalgia though. Maybe I’m not old enough, only being 17, to understand the value of many of the characters, but I feel like new should be what Smash promotes. And it isn’t a holistic view point as fans are more than a few eras, especially in the case of Smash. New and upcoming fans should have a huge bearing, they will be Nintendo’s audience, so Nintendo should take strides to support them. Smash, to me, is like a time capsule as many new comers are picked to represent the era and appeal to new fans, then as Smashes go on, they keep those fighters while moving ahead. The era is never lost or forgotten.

I get that Nostalgia is big right now, but that doesn’t make it good. Franchises like Star Wars, Sonic, even companies like Pixar are playing heavy to nostalgia, and while some work, they are getting heavily criticized for it, and Star Wars and Sonic are even losing sales, and while other factors are at play, usually a hatred for ‘nostalgia pandering’ is what started the downfall. (TFA being criticized for being a New Hope and fans hating the inclusion of Classic Sonic in forces) Even the franchises mentioned, like Pokémon, are going through a rough time as the core fan base actually hates the gen 1 pandering.

Now, I don’t think old fans shouldn’t get characters, but I feel DLC is a good place for them. Krool would be a cool first DLC character. I just think, with the limited new comer slots, that more new characters should get in for the base; Celica, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Spring Man, Decidueye, Impa, Captain Toad, Rex and Pyra, and for third parties we’ll have an Indie and Rayman. After that I feel the flood gates are open and King K. definitely deserves first draft.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think showing up a lot makes a character iconic

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

K. Rool getting into the base game literally takes nothing away from newer characters from newer franchises getting in hence Inklings.... if anything characters that are from new franchises better suit DLC as its a "popular now" situation which can push the DLC more..

 

[StormC]

Now, I don’t think old fans shouldn’t get characters, but I feel DLC is a good place for them.

So old fans should put 60 dollars down on the base game and then pay even more money to see characters they actually want?

20+ year olds are the one with actual disposable income. It makes little sense to screw them over in the hope to get kids to play the game (if anything, kids are more likely to flock to a label than an adult who will think more critically about spending their own money).

EarthBound was no longer in print when was added to Smash 64. But so many people discovered the game through it and now it's a cult classic. Isn't that more important than Nintendo's bottom line?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If we're thinking DLC, that'd be a great place for 3rd parties. Seems like all of them are pretty divisive, so it'd be nice to have the 'not' option for them. After all, Sm4sh DLC was 3 vets, 3 third parties, and a shameless ad.

I'm interested to see where we're going from here, since all the vets are in. How many characters do we have left, and fanservice seems to be ruling.

I won't believe any of these fake rumors, but it's the best state for the Kroc we've seen so far. Just have to hope a little longer.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Yeah, I can agree. Sorry never meant to imply Smash was a commercial.

I don’t think Smash should lean on nostalgia though. Maybe I’m not old enough, only being 17, to understand the value of many of the characters, but I feel like new should be what Smash promotes. And it isn’t a holistic view point as fans are more than a few eras, especially in the case of Smash. New and upcoming fans should have a huge bearing, they will be Nintendo’s audience, so Nintendo should take strides to support them. Smash, to me, is like a time capsule as many new comers are picked to represent the era and appeal to new fans, then as Smashes go on, they keep those fighters while moving ahead. The era is never lost or forgotten.

I get that Nostalgia is big right now, but that doesn’t make it good. Franchises like Star Wars, Sonic, even companies like Pixar are playing heavy to nostalgia, and while some work, they are getting heavily criticized for it, and Star Wars and Sonic are even losing sales, and while other factors are at play, usually a hatred for ‘nostalgia pandering’ is what started the downfall. (TFA being criticized for being a New Hope and fans hating the inclusion of Classic Sonic in forces) Even the franchises mentioned, like Pokémon, are going through a rough time as the core fan base actually hates the gen 1 pandering.

Now, I don’t think old fans shouldn’t get characters, but I feel DLC is a good place for them. Krool would be a cool first DLC character. I just think, with the limited new comer slots, that more new characters should get in for the base; Celica, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Spring Man, Decidueye, Impa, Captain Toad, Rex and Pyra, and for third parties we’ll have an Indie and Rayman. After that I feel the flood gates are open and King K. definitely deserves first draft.

First, I'm not convinced children actually play games like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade. Having a new game doesn't mean your games are being played by younger people. Some games just appeal to older audiences. I would say those would be among them. And that's fine.

However, I don't agree with what you're saying. I don't agree because I like older characters and also because one day these characters of the moment will be old themselves.

If you think about it, the way you want newcomers to be chosen is a little harsh. You say the way you want characters chosen really helps those characters of the moment but one has to wonder -- what happens to the characters of the moment that aren't chosen? I feel like a more holistic view, including considering enduring popularity, gives those characters of the moment that aren't chosen a chance even in the future. However, your point of view while giving characters of the moment a big leg up in the current roster, sounds pretty dire for those same characters in the future. It doesn't make sense either. Do you think people will forget Rex and Pyra in the future, if they aren't in this game or the DLC? I don't think so, even if there will be more Xenoblade competition in the future. I'm sure they will hold a place in people's hearts.

I think you're really undervaluing the importance of memories and nostalgia in making a meaningful roster. I think it's a solid business strategy too. Being new doesn't automatically make you more important in people's minds. And in appealing to people's memories, companies like Nintendo are smartly connecting with people in an intimate way.

But sure, there's a balance to strike. I think you're going too far, though.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah, I can agree. Sorry never meant to imply Smash was a commercial.

I don’t think Smash should lean on nostalgia though. Maybe I’m not old enough, only being 17, to understand the value of many of the characters, but I feel like new should be what Smash promotes. And it isn’t a holistic view point as fans are more than a few eras, especially in the case of Smash. New and upcoming fans should have a huge bearing, they will be Nintendo’s audience, so Nintendo should take strides to support them. Smash, to me, is like a time capsule as many new comers are picked to represent the era and appeal to new fans, then as Smashes go on, they keep those fighters while moving ahead. The era is never lost or forgotten.

I get that Nostalgia is big right now, but that doesn’t make it good. Franchises like Star Wars, Sonic, even companies like Pixar are playing heavy to nostalgia, and while some work, they are getting heavily criticized for it, and Star Wars and Sonic are even losing sales, and while other factors are at play, usually a hatred for ‘nostalgia pandering’ is what started the downfall. (TFA being criticized for being a New Hope and fans hating the inclusion of Classic Sonic in forces) Even the franchises mentioned, like Pokémon, are going through a rough time as the core fan base actually hates the gen 1 pandering.

Now, I don’t think old fans shouldn’t get characters, but I feel DLC is a good place for them. Krool would be a cool first DLC character. I just think, with the limited new comer slots, that more new characters should get in for the base; Celica, Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Spring Man, Decidueye, Impa, Captain Toad, Rex and Pyra, and for third parties we’ll have an Indie and Rayman. After that I feel the flood gates are open and King K. definitely deserves first draft.

I think there’s a misunderstanding on how this process actually works. The draft was written in December 2015, before plenty of those characters you mentioned even *existed*. And by your logic, Ridley isn’t new or interesting. Metroid isn’t “hip with the kids”, even the newest entry sold average. And at the time of Smash 5’s conception, Metroid was dead in the water.

Your post also seems to imply you aren’t aware of the Smash Ballot, of which we *know* would be used for future titles in the series, as it stated this on the Japanese website. K. Rool was most likely a front runner on this, probably behind only Veterans, which are already all in. (Surprise!)

Sakurai makes it clearer with every conversation that pleasing fans is his goal this time. From Snake coming back because of demand, to Ridley getting in because of ravenous Western requests, etc.

Oh, and there’s K. Rool’s unique Mii costume made with entirely new assets that randomly appeared during the ballot. Probably because K. Rool for the DLC team (described as much smaller) was too difficult to fully realize as a character.

The kids at your camp may enjoy the games, but the people who actually care about the characters who end up in Smash are Smash fans. Most casual fans are just happy to play whoever’s in the game. And Sakurai never works to just appease “muh relevance” fans.

I apologize, you seem very nice, and I’m glad to welcome you. It’s a bit hard to believe you just decided to drop in and explain how our popular character we’ve literally fought a decade to see again, who has a worldwide fanbase just won’t make it though.

The time when Smash 5 was formulated is ripe for ballot picks, because very little happened for Nintendo during that time. Characters like Rex+Pyra and Springman likely came far too late to make the base roster.

 

[Gobliiin]

Well at least this is a picture 'leak', I'd be very happy if this was actually real.

https://imgur.com/R3zEgvL
https://i.redd.it/1c15pin9te711.jpg

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well at least this is a picture 'leak', I'd be very happy if this was actually real.

https://imgur.com/R3zEgvL
https://i.redd.it/1c15pin9te711.jpg

Leakers aren't even trying anymore

 

[SeasideKingDumb]

As much as I don't want to rain on anyone's parade that may be the worst picture leak I've ever seen. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in quality between Decidueye's render and literally every other character. Also there's lighting effects on every character's render except for the newcomers. I would, love, however, if this was the roster.

Picture leaks have definitely fallen out of style, though, so I guess props to this guy for spending a long time making it, but I guess there is a clear reason why picture leaks aren't as popular lol

 

[Banjodorf]

Well at least this is a picture 'leak', I'd be very happy if this was actually real.

https://imgur.com/R3zEgvL
https://i.redd.it/1c15pin9te711.jpg

Man I’ve seen that ugly K. Rool render before. C’mon leakers...

 

[IMainKingKRool]

Ultimate has space for both new characters and nostalgic ones, I say. The "Nintendo All-Stars that haven't been in Smash" list is getting smaller all the time and a lot of the characters on there are a matter of opinion, so it just makes sense to bring in up-and-coming characters from more recent stuff. But Smash also has a huge audience that includes old-school Nintendo fans who would recognize older characters.
I don't think anyone should just assume non-recent-franchise picks will be held to DLC if they get in. For brand new characters, Ultimate has Ridley and Inkling - a fan favorite from a niche franchise and a recent success story. Surely the rest of the roster can continue that trend and strike a balance.

Well at least this is a picture 'leak', I'd be very happy if this was actually real.

https://imgur.com/R3zEgvL
https://i.redd.it/1c15pin9te711.jpg

The newcomers on there look so out of place. Their portraits look so shoddily made compared to the actual ones, there's no way that's real. It's a great roster though.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Why do so many leakers use a huge naked frog for K. Rool's picture?

Who even is that?

Come on leakers. Do better!

 

[PsychoJosh]

They couldn't even be bothered to have the newcomers renders be facing the camera like everyone else?

 

[StormC]

Also, 20s/30s are the major demographic for Switch owners.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/nintendo-shares-gender-and-age-breakdown-of-us-switch-buyers.2852/

An anecdotal example of kids who like Nintendo does not necessarily reflect most consumers. Ignoring this demographic makes 0 business sense.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Why post fake leaks here if you're just gonna stroke your own egos by talking trash about them? It's getting on my nerves.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Crazy enough there has

This community seems cool!

Sorry, new to Smash Boards.

Krool, at least from my perspective is an interesting case. Now I’m a 2000s baby, so I missed out on Krool. I’ve known who he is, but his lack of appearances really hurts my ability to fully grasp the character, unlike many people on this board.

Honestly, I find his base game chances very low. I actually believe Nintendo should wait on him as the base game should be revolving around the past 4 years. Many franchises have hit peaks or been developed, so I think Smash should revolve around; Super Mario Odessey, The Legend of Zelda BOTW, Splatoon (franchise), Kirby’s 3DS titles, Pokémon Go, Pokémon Sun and Moon, Fire Emblem Echoes, Tropical Freeze, ARMS, Hyrule Warriors, Metroid (franchise), and Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

Smash usually promotes newer titles, so I feel they should focus on the new, especially now. I’m a camp counselor, so I’m around kids all the time, and I’ve never seen the children talk about Nintendo as much as they do now. They love Odessey and systems like the 3DS, the Switch, hell even the Wii U has gotten some mentions. I’ve never heard kids talk about Nintendo there for years, yet kids who seemed to have no interest previous years are now carrying Switches and playing Mario.

I bring this up as I feel some fans don’t understand what a Nintendo fan is. The roster wasn’t and really shouldn’t be made to appease fans who have been with the company for years. Most likely Nintendo will already get your money and support no matter what. And not including SNES characters isn’t a spit in the face as they keep the older fighters. What I want is for the kids I mentioned above to get interested in the franchise. I would probably say none of them know who Krool is, but someone like Dixie stacks up better for them as she’s in a Switch title. Even characters they don’t know are better newer as they can grab something like Echoes off the shelf easily thus getting them more involved with franchises. I actually became a Nintendo fan due to Smash as I saw Meta Knight as a new fighter and went out to buy DS Kirby titles with him in it.

Now do I believe Krool should be left out completely, of course not. I feel he would make for an excellent DLC character. He could be a Smash Ballot pick and maybe be set up to advertise a new ballot. His inclusion then would be very cool as even if Nintendo never uses him again, they won’t be wasting money advertising a ‘dead’ character as the fans will basically pay for his inclusion and that would beef up the Nintendo is listening message for a new ballot (which will definitely happen, let’s be honest).

Sorry for the long text, but I feel that’s how he should be implemented. I want new fans, not just the same ones, and including characters that fit more in line with the newest titles would increase the chances of the young crowd getting involved with the company as they have characters they recognize. People say that the Smash player base peaked with Wii U and 3DS, but I don’t buy that, with so many new fans coming as children buy the Switch, I feel the potential for numbers to go up is better than it has ever been

One thing I have always thought is Smash Bros is a tribute to Nintendo history. History being the key word. King K Rool and Ridley are important to Donkey Kongs and Samus' history. Even though they both might not be around all the time. The impact they made and continue to make when they are around is hard to ignore.

Characters like K Rool and Ridley with as much history, legacy, and importance to the foundation of their franchise will only get into Smash *base game*. I just can't see them ever offering someone as iconic as K Rool as DLC unless Nintendo actually doesn't see him as being important at all.

I don't think Smash has ever gotten a character of major franchise importance through DLC and probably never will. Having King K Rool as DLC would have been like getting Bowser, Ganondorf, Ridley, or King DDD as DLC. It just isn't happening. The impact the character makes within their time frame is what counts.

This is why so many people love Geno as well. He has been in a single game ever. Just one, but he is remembered and loved so fondly from that one experience. Even Sakurai seems to agree with this notion. And Geno has not shown up in 20 years til his Smash4 Mii Costume. K Rool coming base game gives nostalgia and not chancing his inclusion as DLC with new kids.

And as to why K Rool isnt in Smash at this point. Your guess is as good as mine. Bias..underestimation..or maybe just cold shoulder or lack of creativity (which is hard to believe..with Wii Fit Trainer being a character) No way to know, but I'd hope its not a bad reason.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think the shovel knight is from this mod

But I can't prove it because the shoulder pads in the "leak" are super small. Smaller than ANY real picture of shovel knight

I'm not really good at finding the sources of images

 

[Captain Shades]

I can’t believe this community has a bad reputation. You guys are pretty nice.

To comment, New characters certainly have a chance as we know Sakurai gets insider information on projects that aren’t released yet. 2016 was a slow year because Nintendo was building games for Switch, so many new comers are definetely a possibility. Xenoblade X came out in 2015, so they probably started working on the new game during Smash’s development, so like Greninja, Sakurai could have taken their notes. Same for ARMs as the Mario Kart team developed it and Mario Kart came out in 2014 with DLC ending in early 2015.

Here, how about I do an agree to disagree, somewhat compromise opinion change. I feel new characters should be based on both criteria for the base roster. They are both modern and loved by fans. Ridley is a good example as while, yes, he was a fan pick, he certainly has some relevance today as he was in Samus Returns and will probably be in Prime 4, which was hinted at before Smash’s development during 2015’s Federation Force, so plans had to have already begun. (It’ll probably end up like BOTW with a long production time though, as it was revealed then said to still be in development years later)

I don’t feel my list was unreasonable either, I feel I captured both sides with most; Celica was an older character brought back for a remake. Bandana Dee certainly deserves a spot after becoming a main cast member in the Wii era. Dixie Kong is only a little younger than Krool and holds a big fan base. Impa is definitely beloved, just Hyrule Warriors showed move set potential making her more viable. I would even argue that Captain Toad fits as he’s earned his status and is a way to create a move set for the much requested toad to be playable and Toadette can join. The only real advertisement characters were Spring Man and Rex, but that’s really only two and they can provide some level of uniqueness.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, we should have a mix. If Krool joins then that’s cool, but saying new characters really shouldn’t take up the roster seems counter productive, as I would argue that fans make the roster equally as boring as you guys say a Nintendo marketer would. Without some marketing cool characters like Shulk, Lucario, Wii Fit, every Fire Emblem character, and even the mentioned Ness, Lucas, and Palutena probably wouldn’t have ever made it, and the game would feel weird without those strange marketing characters

 

[StormC]

Without some marketing cool characters like Shulk, Lucario, Wii Fit, every Fire Emblem character, and even the mentioned Ness, Lucas, and Palutena probably wouldn’t have ever made it, and the game would feel weird without those strange marketing characters

Except Ness was not a marketing character...EarthBound was out of print when Smash 64 was released and he was not going to be in Mother 3. His addition revitalized interest in a once-forgotten SNES RPG that now has a cult following all around the world. It did not promote or market any Nintendo product relevant to the timeframe Smash 64 came out in.

I'm also extremely skeptical that Sakurai knew about Ridley being in Samus Returns, or even that Samus Returns was in development, when he decided on the roster. It was developed by Europeans and he rarely if ever interacts with foreign developers. The Metroid series was on the outs in December 2015. Here's the actual given reason Sakurai put in Ridley:

“[Ridley’s] about four meters tall. Because of that, it was very hard to actually get him into the game in a working condition, but there was a lot of outcry from fans, especially overseas, so we decided to put him in.”

Ridley could be as relevant as he wanted to be (he was certainly much more relevant in the Brawl era, with multiple appearances to his name between 2002 and 2008), but it didn't matter unless the fans shouted for over a decade that they wanted this character playable. That is the distinction between him and characters like Shulk and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I completely forgot that K Rool's theme was in Brawl

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

I think King K. Rool would make a good popsicle.

His big eye can be a red gum drop.

Dixie could be a good popsicle, too. Her ponytail can be banana flavored and her beret strawberry.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I completely forgot that K Rool's theme was in Brawl

Yea! I always thought that was weird, but I was wanting K. Rool and Diddy since Melee. K Rools name has also been one of the custom names you can use since Melee.

 

[Scorchingwater]

Hello! I decided I should finally join in on the Konversation after being a lurker for so long. I really hope King K. Rool gets in this time around, I think he has a pretty good shot at getting in! (Fingers Krossed )I used to have an account on here back during smash 4 speculation days, but of course I forgot my account info! haha
Anyway, after Ridley was de-confirmed during the 50 fact extravaganza, I was heartbroken. My dreams of playing as Samus’ arch nemesis seemed like it would never happen. So I moved on and by the time the ballot was announced I made it my goal to bring back my boy Roy! Haha and then he was leaked...
So I felt content with everyone in the roster, but I felt like something was missing. I noticed that there was a lot of talk surrounding this green Kroc known as King K. Rool.
I was intrigued!
I decided that I wanted to experience King K. Rool myself, so I bought Donkey Kong Country on the Wii U virtual console!
.... and wow now I see the appeal.
King K. Rool’s boss battle was so tough (partly because I’m terrible at video games ) but it left an impression on me. His design, personality, and his theme music are AMAZING I immediately began to support the King, but alas... the Kostume was revealed
Haha but it was ok. Sakurai outdid himself again. What we got was an amazing game. I knew for sure that if there were to be a future Smash game, King K. Rool would surely get in.
... Now look where we are! I’ve been obsessing about this game and now RIDLEY IS IN!!!!! I still can’t believe it!
King K. Rool has my full support! He’s the last Kharacter that I want, and you guys deserve to have him in. His absence from the DK series is a shame, but I have faith that he will return! And I believe Super Smash Bros Ultimate will be his debut back into gaming after all this time!

P.S.
sorry for writing a book on my first post and the abundance of emojis