King Dedede: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for King Dedede. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[The Cape]

I would like to see these things:

D and U throw have less KB
F and B throw have more KB

As we all know DDD is a throw heavy character. With the less knockback on D and U throw he can setup techs or combos very well and build damage with his good ground game. I am still suggesting that D throw knocks everyone over, but I want to see it keep them in closer too.

F and B throw getting a KB boost helps him kill lower and get people off the stage easier. This is where he really excels, by edgeguarding.

Why not buff his strengths of throws and edgeguarding by buffing him up a bit in those areas.

As for the faster jab that was suggested, I really dont think its needed as his grab is amazingly good as is. I would however like to see the time between his AAA combo to be sped up a bit (so it actually combos).

 

[Ulevo]

I would like to see these things:

D and U throw have less KB
F and B throw have more KB

As we all know DDD is a throw heavy character. With the less knockback on D and U throw he can setup techs or combos very well and build damage with his good ground game. I am still suggesting that D throw knocks everyone over, but I want to see it keep them in closer too.

F and B throw getting a KB boost helps him kill lower and get people off the stage easier. This is where he really excels, by edgeguarding.

Why not buff his strengths of throws and edgeguarding by buffing him up a bit in those areas.

As for the faster jab that was suggested, I really dont think its needed as his grab is amazingly good as is. I would however like to see the time between his AAA combo to be sped up a bit (so it actually combos).

The changes to the Dthrow would only hurt Dedede, and the Uthrow is amazing as it is right now. It combos in to Utilt, and is even a CG on certain characters. Decreasing knock back would likely turn this in to a move that we're fixing on many characters, i.e. Lucarios Uthrow.

 

[The Cape]

How would the D throw change hurt DDD?

Keeping them closer to him allows better tech chases for him.

 

[Ulevo]

How would the D throw change hurt DDD?

Keeping them closer to him allows better tech chases for him.

Maybe. I we might be thinking different on the definition of "close".

 

[The Cape]

Well lets say that the D throw sends you a distance of 10 right now.

I am thinking something like it sending you to a 6 or 7.

This keeps you closer and gives DDD more options out of the D throw and keeps you close enough to make you a bit easier to chase.

 

[Ulevo]

Well lets say that the D throw sends you a distance of 10 right now.

I am thinking something like it sending you to a 6 or 7.

This keeps you closer and gives DDD more options out of the D throw and keeps you close enough to make you a bit easier to chase.

Fair enough. As long as he is able to tech chase properly, I think that is the main concern with the Dthrow.

 

[Revven]

I just hope that lowering its knockback won't make it a CG again. >_>;

Also, just lower Uthrow slightly it can already CG at low percents on FF'ers like Falcon so, you have to be very careful with this throw and his Dthrow.

 

[CT Chia]

Dont change the dthrow, DDD doesn't need an awesome follow up from all of his moves. His uthrow is already a throw to combo god move as it is lol. giving him a great dthrow follow up possibility gives him great followups from a grab on any character (heavy ones use uthrow, lighter ones use dthrow). couple that with amazing grab range and meh... i dont like it

 

[Ulevo]

Dont change the dthrow, DDD doesn't need an awesome follow up from all of his moves. His uthrow is already a throw to combo god move as it is lol. giving him a great dthrow follow up possibility gives him great followups from a grab on any character (heavy ones use uthrow, lighter ones use dthrow). couple that with amazing grab range and meh... i dont like it

It doesn't allow for guaranteed damage, it provides a more efficient manner to tech chase.

 

[The Cape]

DDD destroys on edgeguards and throws. So why not help him setup some tech chases for his kill moves a bit better on the stage?

I love the idea of a character that just plain ***** everyone with grabs and almost entirely grabs.
I dont think there is a character in any smash that builds damage, sets up combos, and kills with throws at least 70% of the time. That would be SWEET for DDD.

 

[goodoldganon]

Unless there are any objections, I'll be back to close this topic around 5. So we want DeDeDe to focus more on the minions correct? We will be doing this by...

1. Allowing for 3 minions at once
2. Minions can't be picked up with the A button
3. 30:10:1 for the new Dee/Doo/Gordo ratio
4. Speed up his jab

Also, we should grat D3 a little more momentum. I'm no coder but these could be tough changes. Either way, they will be submitted unless someone wants something to add. I'll talk with the Backroom and see if there are an more immediate characters we want to discuss.

From the thread

 

[Revven]

His Bthrow should be buffed in KB as well when we can do it and perhaps knock the Uthrow KB down SLIGHTLY, not a ton so he can CG FF'ers and ****. All that and the ones GoG mentioned and I think D3 will be perfect.

 

[The Cape]

I like GoG's idea for D3. Would we want to buff his four throws as well?

 

[Ulevo]

Those recommendations look fairly solid to me. I still think decreasing the start up to his Dsmash will help his ability to combo, so that is another suggestion I can add.

 

[CT Chia]

GoG's reccomendations are perfect, 2 of them were mine from the thread lol

as for falco400, i like the btrhow kb buff

im really skeptical about the uthrow kb change though. i would say tothe 4 GoG reccomendations, the bthrow buff, then test it. if he still needs a minor buff, then do the uthrow change but hold off for now

edit: o yea, speed up the overB just a tad

edit 2:
while talking to vex about DDD he reminded me a suggestion that i made back in the workshop thread that i wanna bring up back here

what does everyone think about removing gordos (and also things like peach pulling bombs). if were aiming to make a more competitive game here, shouldnt remove random things like this that are completely unexpected that can completely change the flow of a game? ppl dont rely on gordos or bombs as is, but if it happens, it could be destructive for the opponent outta no where.

 

[The Cape]

Talking with Giza on IRC:

(2:31:23 AM) TheCape: Raise damage of all his throws
(2:31:27 AM) TheCape: Make dair have no KBG
(2:31:32 AM) TheCape: F smash sourspot has pitfall
(2:31:36 AM) TheCape: down throw has pitfall
(2:31:46 AM) TheCape: And we can make down throw do 0 damage

Good ideas?

 

[MuBa]

So basically you mean when Dedede sits on your face you get stuck on the ground? That would be a hilarious idea XD

 

[goodoldganon]

Except that D3 can still shield grab camp very well. It's what is keeping him useable now. D-throw as a pitfall? Would be funny but horribly broken. D-throw into F-smash? No thanks.

Sure, we can help him combo better but that's boring. I really think we need to do SOMETHING with the minions.

 

[The Cape]

Well I have been running through ideas with Giza and we have come up with a few ideas.

Uair last hit has more KBG making it kill a bit earlier.

Dair has no KBG and higher BKB so that it can be a good spacing and combo tool

Sour spot of F smash gives slip properties which can possibly lead to tech chasing

Faster jab jab jab combo so that it actually links and is actually useable would be nice.

Better ratio of minions is of course a good suggestion as always

Something else that I thought up while playing last night is we could allow for his F tilt to do something special, I dont want to just speed it up as thats kind of stupid, but its always been a good spacing tool. What about making it slip as well or give cape effect. That would be an interesting way to handle it.

Now that I think about it, I really love the cape effect on his forward tilt as it can be used as a spacing tool and to mess up some approaches on DDD which allows him to keep his range. He has four hitboxes on the move, possibly do it on one of the earlier ones so it doesnt have broken range.

What does everyone think of these changes?

 

[kupo15]

Can we speed up the lag on DDDs up b when he cancels it close to the ground? Why he gets situational lag is beyond me.

 

[Team Giza]

Can we please cut the lag down on rethrows of waddles? I find it extremely odd that he should be punished for actually being able to rethrow one of his minions which is extremely hard to do in a match against someone good. If his rethrow lag is cut down by a large chunk he will have lots of pressure options from a rethrow and will encourage Dedede to move around the field more and make minions more important to his game.