Killing with Toon Link

[GTR!]

Hey guys, im real sorry if this has been posted on here before but i was really too lazy to search to see if it had but w/e here goes.

It seems like when i go to tournaments and play as TL i can rack up damage and combo with him great, but when they get to 100+ percent it gets hard. Especially against the larger characters, i cant seem to land a killing move. I dont know if this is a common TL player's problem but i was wondering what seems most effective for you guys when it comes to KO'ing other characters at high percentages.

Again sorry if this has already been poster before and thanks for all the advice!

 

[Megapants]

U-smash, F-smash, U-tilt, F-air, D-air, U-air, D-smash (gimp at edge), normal D-smash (high percent), and Z-air ledge grabbing (gimp) are all good kill moves. How you set yourself up for these moves is what is most important, though. Making sure to abuse your projectiles and your z-air to help set you up for a kill is vital. Play lots of friendlies and mess around with different methods of setting up kills. Be sure to mix it up so you don't become predictable, which will make it much harder to land those killing blows.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185789
It isn't very hard to just look in the directory that's at the top of the forum....

TL has plenty of KO moves, the problem is setting them up... against someone good, the situation doesn't present itself very easily. You just gotta force the opening with your projectiles... don't just run in there trying to land them, or you'll just be giving them free hits.

 

[GTR!]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185789
It isn't very hard to just look in the directory that's at the top of the forum....

TL has plenty of KO moves, the problem is setting them up... against someone good, the situation doesn't present itself very easily. You just gotta force the opening with your projectiles... don't just run in there trying to land them, or you'll just be giving them free hits.

sorry dude, i know TL has lots of kill moves like the guy above you said i mean those are all very viable options its just a problem i've been having.

I might have interpreted you response weirdly but i mean by no means am i just running up for a F-Smash or a D-air or something like that; im not a slouch at this game or anything and im not trying to brag i am just saying

However, i thank both of you guys for your answer and sorry if i misunderstood everything you just responded.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

No need to apologize... TL sucks at killing

I didn't mean to imply that you just did stuff like that, but I know that some players just try spamming usmash/fair/whatever if they need to kill and they don't realize that it doesn't help. That's when it's most difficult to land a KO move - it's very predictable.

You're not the only one who has this problem... I was playing a DDD earlier and he consistently lived to 180% and higher because I can't land those KO moves.

 

[BRLNK88]

No need to apologize... TL sucks at killing

I didn't mean to imply that you just did stuff like that, but I know that some players just try spamming usmash/fair/whatever if they need to kill and they don't realize that it doesn't help. That's when it's most difficult to land a KO move - it's very predictable.

You're not the only one who has this problem... I was playing a DDD earlier and he consistently lived to 180% and higher because I can't land those KO moves.

lulz, TL sucks at killing? ok...
Maybe he has issues finishing off certain characters, like D3, but overall, for his speed and weight class, his killing power is above average.
But no way in hell it "sucks", how can you even say that???

 

[Alzi]

Since your a nice person i will tell you this one sentence that should be in your head while playing toon link.

"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"

Float your way with projectiles, nair, bair and all that then when it comes to the kill sting like a bee....

 

[Sosuke]

Toon Link DOES stuck at killing.
And somewhat at gimping.

It may not really matter much now, but at higher levels of play, its a *****. >_<


Use the inquiry threads for little things like this next time please

 

[GTR!]

No need to apologize... TL sucks at killing

I didn't mean to imply that you just did stuff like that, but I know that some players just try spamming usmash/fair/whatever if they need to kill and they don't realize that it doesn't help. That's when it's most difficult to land a KO move - it's very predictable.

You're not the only one who has this problem... I was playing a DDD earlier and he consistently lived to 180% and higher because I can't land those KO moves.

Yeah, i know where your comin from now. I know many players that do that too and ugh D3 is such a ***** >_<

Toon Link DOES stuck at killing.
And somewhat at gimping.

It may not really matter much now, but at higher levels of play, its a *****. >_<


Use the inquiry threads for little things like this next time please

Well this makes me feel a better knowing thats its not as much me sucking playing as TL and that its actually a problem for really good and respected Toon Link mains like yourself.

And ugh at high levels of play is the main problem, playing with friends makes me feel confident but then at tournaments i find myself in the biggest holes. Sorry like i said before i knew there was probably a thread like this around here somewhere i just was really too lazy to look sorry guys

 

[DCStyle]

TL doesn't suck at killing. He's actually extremely versatile to different situations.

All you have to do is constantly wall up with your projectiles like you would the entire match and mind game them into a hyphen smash or whatever the hell you want. I personally like fast fallen u-airs coming at them from above on platform stages, and boomerang mind games for flat stages.

 

[Tiersr4Queers]

Toon Link DOES stuck at killing.
And somewhat at gimping.

It may not really matter much now, but at higher levels of play, its a *****. >_<


Use the inquiry threads for little things like this next time please

lolz stuck. Try not to use the up smash alot if u miss the up smash its best to up tilt after.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Toon Link sucks in setting UP kill moves consistently on smart opponents. At mid high top levels of play its actually very frustratingly difficult to land a kill move. And none of them are safe on block. The safest is utilt, the most versatile is usmash and the strongest is fsmash. I find myself killing with utilt a lot more now not because I suck but because my opponents are SMART. Ive had more sucess not looking for the kill btw, if u start worrying about getting the kill ull just frustrate urself and make urself play worse (u will also give the opponent free hits).

 

[GTR!]

Toon Link sucks in setting UP kill moves consistently on smart opponents. At mid high top levels of play its actually very frustratingly difficult to land a kill move. And none of them are safe on block. The safest is utilt, the most versatile is usmash and the strongest is fsmash. I find myself killing with utilt a lot more now not because I suck but because my opponents are SMART. Ive had more sucess not looking for the kill btw, if u start worrying about getting the kill ull just frustrate urself and make urself play worse (u will also give the opponent free hits).

Ive been experiencing this alot. Especially when i get stuck on the stages like FD against big opponents like DDD or snake (usually who i fight who is on the bigger side) and occasionally DK. Its almost like i find myself even killing with bair which means they are near the 200% which just turns out to irritate the **** out of me.

 

[Sosuke]

Haha, stuck. xD

 

[Rutger]

TL doesn't suck at killing. He's actually extremely versatile to different situations.

All you have to do is constantly wall up with your projectiles like you would the entire match and mind game them into a hyphen smash or whatever the hell you want. I personally like fast fallen u-airs coming at them from above on platform stages, and boomerang mind games for flat stages.

You can't use Mind games as a reason for TL's kills not sucking. >_>


TL definitely has trouble killing. He doesn't really have the range needed to outspace, TL is in danger when ever he wants to go in range for a kill. If any attack is shielded then the TL will get punished. Not much will lead into a kill move so the TL needs to wait for an opening from the opponent.


I agree with TLMSheikant. I like to not look for the kill, and I also prefer Utilt to the Usmash for killing.


But that's just my opinion; no need to listen to the person that likes to throw the boomerang in the opposite direction of my opponent. <_<

 

[Silver Swordsman]

TL DOES suck at killing

He has a ton of KO moves... the problem is LANDING them.

fsmash - they can DI out of the first hit and escape ... some characters can even hit you out of it
usmash - a good KO move but a good opponent won't let you just run up and use it whenever you want
fair - again another good KO move but a good opponent won't let you land it easily
uair - this has a really narrow hitbox that can easily be avoided
dair - if you use this, you will either kill your opponent or be killed (if you want a ceiling kill with this, you're stupid)
dsmash - for gimping purposes or high % KO's, you can't reliably land this on a good opponent

Sometimes I just camp and hit the other guy with so many projectiles that my nair is completely fresh and can KO them lol

 

[1Zero99Lucia5]

I find it easier to kill AGAINST heavy characters than the lighter, because:

1. They're easy to gimp with projectiles and bairs.
2. You can easily outcamp characters like Bowser/Tripple D/Ganondorf
3. They are biiiig =D, wich means... OMG DAIR DAIR DAIR FTW

 

[oOJaseOo]

Probs the best ways to get kills are set up with bombs like down throw a bomb to an up air is a real easy one just gotta be patient

 

[Drig786]

for me i keep racking up damage and go for any opening for a kill really :/ you need patience to kill them

Edit: sometimes keep pressuring them with Fairs then mix it up

 

[GTR!]

I find it easier to kill AGAINST heavy characters than the lighter, because:

1. They're easy to gimp with projectiles and bairs.
2. You can easily outcamp characters like Bowser/Tripple D/Ganondorf
3. They are biiiig =D, wich means... OMG DAIR DAIR DAIR FTW

i mean yeah bairs and projectiles are good vs like bowswer and ganondorf, but guys like DDD and stuff have decently good recoveries and can camp projectiles right back.

I mean its easy to rack up the damage its just really hard to kill against good opponents b/c most of the time agasitn a good opponent you wont land a dair spike.

BTW thanks to all you guys have really answered my question! thanks!

 

[DCStyle]

For those complaining about mind games, if you knew TL was vulnerable when killing, shouldn't developing new mind-gaming techniques be one of the top priorities for you mainers?

-_-

Idk. I never really complained about it b/c TL was always given so many options.

 

[Sosuke]

My mindgames are great.
That has nothing to do with TL's capability to kill. >_>
Mind games should be a top priority for any good player, regardless of character.

No ones complaining about mind games.

 

[GTR!]

My mindgames are great.
That has nothing to do with TL's capability to kill. >_>
Mind games should be a top priority for any good player, regardless of character.

No ones complaining about mind games.

Exactly, like i said earlier its not like im a scrub or anything its just his killing move agasint people who are mindgamesing in similar ways and stuff like what setups do you guys use most that was all i was really trying to ask. I love TL i know all of his possibilities i was just wondering what some experienced guys who go to tourneys and place well like yourself do you know?

 

[Rutger]

No ones complaining about mind games.

I did, somewhat anyways.
He said to mind game them into a kill move, and I said that mind games has nothing to do with TL. >_>


And since we're on the subject...
Mind games are not really something you can develop, at least not as you would with other concepts. Mind game is a silly term really, all it really is is playing smart. It's as simple as reading your opponent and acting accordingly.
It all comes with experience; one can develop a skill by practicing that skill until it becomes second nature, but how can that person practice how he or she reacts to the opponent in a fight?

So no, I don't think mind games should be a top priority for anyone playing the game. It's an abstract concept, there is no true way to develop something called "mind games". A fight will have you questioning every move you want to use, these questions cannot be answered with practice but through experience. Experience comes with time, you will get better the more you play other people. Priority should go into being comfortable with your characters, their techniques and into understanding how the rest of the cast play when against your character.


So...
yeah. <_<
Don't focus on improving "mind games".

This is all a fact imo. No really, it's a fact... except for those parts that are my opinion. >_>

 

[Silver Swordsman]

It shouldn't be your primary focus (at least not until you get to a certain level) but it should by no means be ignored... it's what separates good players from great players. Understanding your character can only get you so far (this is why it's important to play actual people, because mindgames are REALLY important whether you think about them or not).

 

[Megapants]

I think mindgames is pretty important to killing with TL, actually. Because a lot of his killers are so predictable, using a simple mind game can really help ease the process. While it isn't always necessary, it is very useful for mixing up your game and keeping your opponents on their toes.

 

[DCStyle]

Ah, true that each situation will be different, but you can't say there won't be techniques that you can learn/develop/use that's a part of the entire mind-game 'game'. I used fast-fallen U-airs as an example because it's a move most opponents don't expect, thus a 'mind-game technique.'

 

[ImpactAR]

Your most practical kill moves would be Usmash, Utilt, and Nair. All pretty much comes from punishing which requires you to know the character you're playing against well enough to know what you can punish.

Usmash and Nair can be combined with dashing. Dash Usmash when you know you have the time to connect, otherwise if you're in doubt Dash and instantly full jump Nair. You can safely toss out dash and instant full jump Nair for and hit or miss poke fairly safely, but be prepared to second jump away and counter attack.

Utilt is better against rolling and air dodging and requires you to read and guess your opponent.

Fair and Uair is good to toss out when you knock your opponent high into the air. Just make sure you space them and have the room to toss them out. Fair and Nair are best for edge guarding since they good knock back. Good players who have experience against TL would easily avoid the scenario for these moves though.

Other than that IMO TL can't effectively set up offensive KO opportunities.

Good luck.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Nair? Since when? I said nair once before in the past during a similar discussion but now I really wouldn't say that. If you can land a nair and kill you'd be much better off RARing to a bair or fair'ing if you can time it right.

Also I've found that I kill much more with uair than I do with utilt.

Don't get me wrong, utilt is a great move; I just don't feel as inclined to kill with it as I would some other move. It's good for juggling at low percents though. And for countering a vertical opponent from below.

 

[GTR!]

Nair? Since when? I said nair once before in the past during a similar discussion but now I really wouldn't say that. If you can land a nair and kill you'd be much better off RARing to a bair or fair'ing if you can time it right.

Also I've found that I kill much more with uair than I do with utilt.

Don't get me wrong, utilt is a great move; I just don't feel as inclined to kill with it as I would some other move. It's good for juggling at low percents though. And for countering a vertical opponent from below.

Ive had a decently good time killing with up air recently too. Ever since i started this thread ive been trying out a couple of things and it seems like U-smash and uair have been doing the majority of the work.

Ive tried fair and its spacing is the problem i have, as well as its slow windup time. It does hit hard though. Thanks for everything so far guys.

 

[Ashraf23]

I don' think the problem is knowing which moves to use when, but its how to set those moves up for a killing opportunity. Santis thread is really good for both issues though.

 

[ImpactAR]

Nair knocks more horizontal than Bair. Bair knocks more up/side which makes it more likely not to kill. Nair is faster than Fair.

I'm not saying Nair is TL's "best" kill move, but compared to his other aerials when we talk in terms of speed, knock back, and practicality it has a better chance to connect for a "possible" KO than any other of his aerials. Uair and Fair can kill better than it's very hard to land if your opponent has TL experience and usually the scenario for it is when you knock your opponent into the air.

Also keep in mind my intentions for Usmash, Utilt, and Nair is more for punishing. TL has no solid KO set up other than following through with a string and hop it all works out.