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Ken Masters: The Ultimate Echo (Street) Fighter

smash puffle

Smash Ace
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"Ken Turns Up the Heat!"

This is the official discussion thread for Ken, confirmed as an Echo Fighter for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate!


Original OP:
The Short Intro:

In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, a new term was made for simple clone characters known as "Echo Fighters", and that title is the literal definition for Ken Masters in Street Fighter (well, at least before SF3 anyways).
In Street Fighter and Street Fighter II (it's first iteration) in particular, Ken is a clone of Ryu, with very minor differences. Later iterations of SF2 included more noticeable changes and in later games his moveset felt more distinct.

In the case of Smash, Ken being an Echo Fighter makes the most sense and it's probably the only possible way he could get in. So his moveset would be pretty much Ryu's with those small changes from the earlier SF games.
He might be able to be added at last minute for the base roster if they need to, and it would be pretty easy to make in comparison to any brand new fighter. And as many people pointed out in the thread, he's the Original Echo Fighter, so he's the echo that makes the most sense to add in Smash, being iconic in his own weird, unique way.

NOW with the introduction of Richter in this game, 3rd party echoes are now super likely. This is now Ken's big chance to shine.

The man got in boys!
Thank you all who supported him since the begining, I think this was quite a ride.

Supporter List:
All Supporters before reveal:
smash puffle (me, sure
)
GoodGrief741
DjinnandTonic
MacDaddyNook
Takasmash
Good Guy Giygas
Banjodorf
Wonks
toonito
OhMyBanana54
KatKit
DarthEnderX
SHSL Jedi
Questionmark222
Bernlord
lordvaati
Pegasus Knight
thisguyisnotcool
TriMaxTime
AreJay25
Rockaphin
Chrono.
Smash Lampjaw
nuclearneo577
Johnknight1
Smashoperatingbuddy123
THE 6r
silvR1995
DaUsername
BronzeGreekGod
Red Dead Redeemed
Cool Guy 36
psb123
ItalianBaptist
Arymle Roseanne
King Sonnn DeDeDoo
letsgetsmashing
xwingz900
RandomAce
G-Guy
Lyndis_
FalconFire93
scoobymcsnack
Smashing Ramen
VioletSmashfan
AncientArk
zeldasmash
alemerltoucanet
Majora's Visage

Stock Icons:



By KMDP



By Zieghost

By axel_


Thank you for reading and have a nice day! :)
 

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DjinnandTonic

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He really is the original Echo Fighter. Honestly, I kind of assumed that when Ryu was revealed that Ken was a lock as an Alph-style costume.

Ken is better than Ryu. That's right. I said it.

Put me down as a supporter!
 

Takasmash

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I see Ken being a likely echoe fighter than Shadow. I might see Sakurai making Ken echo because I think there's so much love with Ryu after watching the smash direct and he loves Street Fighter. I support Ken Masters in smash ultimate.
 

Good Guy Giygas

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This would be a super cool idea, especially since he pretty much is the original echo character in fighting game history. If not an echo fighter, I'd hope he could at least be an alternate costume character for Ryu, sorta like the Olimar/Alph situation. Needless to say, I support Ken. (Could we get some Street Fighter assist trophies too while we're at it?)
 
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Banjodorf

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I’ll always support Ken. Please add me to the supporter list!
 

Wonks

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I don't think it will happen, but I fully support.
 

smash puffle

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This would be a super cool idea, especially since he pretty much is the original echo character in fighting game history. If not an echo fighter, I'd hope he could at least be an alternate costume character for Ryu, sorta like the Olimar/Alph situation. Needless to say, I support Ken. (Could we get some Street Fighter assist trophies too while we're at it?)
From the footage seen and according to the Smash Wiki, there's no Ken costume, but there's no red color costume either, hmm...
 

MattX20

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Out of the 3rd Party echo fighter concepts I've seen, Ken makes the most sense overall. Since Ryu is based more on his Street Fighter 2 design and gameplay, Ken would be a pretty simple one to do, maybe with the Shoryuken having more firey effects.
 
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smash puffle

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I gotta be honest, I don't know the exact differences Ken has over Ryu in the earlier games... Can anyone help me list them all? I could make like a small segment in the OP listing them all.
 

DjinnandTonic

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Taken from here: https://www.quora.com/In-Street-Fighter-are-Ken-and-Ryu-pretty-much-the-same-character

In the very first SF, they were identical except for the color, and the fact that Ryu wore shoes and Ken did not.

In SF2, they are identical except that Ken's throw makes him roll three times before letting go of the opponent, while Ryu rolls only once.

In SF2: Champion Edition, Ryu was given a stronger hadoken and Ken a stronger Whirlwind Kick (Tatsumaki Senpyaku). To differentiate the two further, in Super SF2, Ken was given a Hadoken that set the opponent on fire. It was in this game and the later versions of SF2 that Ken was given the Shoryuken that set his opponents on fire, and the characters became more different from this point.

In SF Alpha and the VS. games that came in this era, the tradition continued by giving Ken different super combos than Ryu, as well as a forward knee lunge and different kicks.

In SF3 they are vastly different with entirely different movesets, personalities, and super moves. Ken is widely known to be slightly overpowered in this game, due to his many cancel moves and slight edge with speed and strength.
In the latest versions of Street Fighter 2, specifically:
  • Ryu is a bit faster, Ken is a bit stronger. I can't tell the specific details, but Ryu's moves did a bit less damage than Ken's--both while blocked and on impact.
  • Ryu relies more on hadokens; i.e. he wants to stay away from the opponents and create impact when they come closer. If you analyze the AI behavior of SF2 Ryu, this is more prevalent. Ryu keeps on throwing fireballs and as soon as you try to jump-kick to get close to him, he uppercuts you away.
  • Ryu's whirwind kick was a single hit attack; the opponent is knocked down upon the first hit, but Ken's one made multiple impact.
  • Ryu's uppercut did not travel; and thus a missed uppercut gave him more recovery time. However, Ken moved towards the opponent with his uppercut, which means a blocked uppercut would most likely result in Ken getting slammed by the opponent.
  • Ken relies more on the whirlwind kick to get closer to the opponent, and if blocked, he'd often follow it up with an uppercut.
  • Ken is deadly at close range. He will create a lot of pressure with continual fireballs, whirlwind kicks and uppercuts. If you can't counterattack fast, he will overwhelm you. Thus it's very difficult to get out of the tight spot when you are cornered against Ken using a slow character like Guile.
 

toonito

Smash Ace
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definitely a supporter and my most wanted echo fighter

cmon Ryu & Ken in doubles
 
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OhMyBanana54

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Yes please! I’d love to have Ken in smash to recreate the iconic Ryu vs Ken match. Now if we were getting more original characters I’d say I’d prefer Chun li but now with echo fighters, Ken’s opportunity has come.
 

smash puffle

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Thanks DjinnandTonic for your post! I knew he had minor differences, but not this many! He really is a perfect fit for an Echo Fighter. I'd be genuinely surprised if he doesn't show up in the base roster.
 

SEGAGameBoy

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This is kind of weird, but I've never Street Fighter. But, I'm planning on getting Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers for the Switch when I get it. Yeah, surprise! I don't have the Switch.
 

Quillion

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Does anyone else realize how many potential Ryu Echoes there are? It's honestly hilarious how much Capcom clones one character repeatedly.

We have:
  • Ryu with Fire Punch (Ken)
  • Fast Ryu (Akuma)
  • Ryu fangirl (Sakura)
  • Joke Ryu (Dan)
  • Ryu's Teacher (Gouken)
And that's not including the alternate forms of certain characters:
  • Evil Ryu
  • Evil Ryu with Fire Punch (Violent Ken)
  • More Evil Fast Ryu (Oni)
I'd personally support Akuma since he's steadily become more of an icon while Ken has faded into the background, but that's a topic for another time.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Akuma would make sense too. I still prefer Ken, but Akuma has been muscling in on his territory in the past decade or so.
 

DjinnandTonic

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“Rob him of his unique traits”? Pfft. All of Ken’s unique traits fall well within the parameters of what we’ve seen from echo fighters.
 

Megadoomer

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I think Ken might be one of the few echo fighters/clones that I'd be perfectly fine with. (the other being Octoling) While I'm still getting caught up on Street Fighter outside of SF2 through the 30th anniversary collection, it doesn't seem like it would take much to make him an echo fighter while still staying true to his games, and he's still a popular character in his own right.

I'd be okay with him being included; if clone characters are going to have a specific designation this time around, I could see them including one of the original clone characters as part of that.
 

Questionmark222

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Count me in! I think that people are sleeping on Ken's chances, and I think he makes way too much sense, as the OG echo fighter. Also, I don't think negotiating an echo with Capcom would be too hard for Sakurai.
 

Bernlord

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These guys gave a 35% chance of Ken being in smash but they also gave 75% to Steve from Minecraft to be in smash, TOP LUL.

Also, here's a little something for the people laughing at the idea of Ken in Smash:

https://imgur.com/a/lwu4GP4

Cool Fact: I flipped the art of Ken to reflect on Ryu art on the original wallpaper, further pushing both their link in the SF universe and to clearly indicate that he is a clone. https://imgur.com/a/afh11Oq
Reasons why THIS NEEDS to happen.
  1. I know Ken became his own character over the years, but, if you consider the fact that Ryu apperance in SSB4 is based on his Street Fighter 2 apperance (which doesn't make sense considering Ryu was actually looking like this: https://imgur.com/a/32DVkn2 in Street Fighter 2 aka Brown Hair Ryu but whatever) Ken would fit way more considering back in the SF2 days, Ken was literally a Ryu clone, just had stronger kicks and flame Shoryukens and Tatsumaki Senpukyakus.
  2. It's really easy to implement him, HE LITERALLY mostly plays like Ryu in SF2, just a bit different...like an Echo Fighter
  3. Other 3rd party characters got assist trophies, stages, items etc, Ryu got Suzaku Castle and a Ken trophy (could imply that Sakurai UNDERSTANDS the importance of Ken.)
  4. Would be more realistic than some fighter ideas I heard...koff koff Steve koff koff.
  5. Pretty much everyone would be happy to see him, especially Ken mains.
 

lordvaati

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Oh ****, forgot to put that I support him.
But yeah using Hyper Fighting as a reference, the differences between the two were that Ryu had faster Hadokens and invincibility on his Tatsu while Ken had a bit more range on Shoryuken and a multi hit Tatsu.

Make Mr. Masters' ranged FS be Shoryu-Reppa and his close FS Shinryuken and we good.
 

GoodGrief741

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I don’t know what you guys think, but personally I’d be deeply disappointed if Ken were to get in and he didn’t have a Kevin Stryker alt/any SF2010 reference.
 

Bernlord

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I don’t know what you guys think, but personally I’d be deeply disappointed if Ken were to get in and he didn’t have a Kevin Stryker alt/any SF2010 reference.
Would love to see a Alpha 3 alt. Really long hair Ken = best Ken.
 

smash puffle

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I don’t know what you guys think, but personally I’d be deeply disappointed if Ken were to get in and he didn’t have a Kevin Stryker alt/any SF2010 reference.
I don't see that happening at all, unfortunately. I mean, when was the last time Capcom themselves referenced this game, aside from rereleasing it on the Virtual Console? If Capcom doesn't reference it, then Nintendo wouldn't do that at all, unless the Chronicle feature from Brawl comes back.
 

meleebrawler

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Oh ****, forgot to put that I support him.
But yeah using Hyper Fighting as a reference, the differences between the two were that Ryu had faster Hadokens and invincibility on his Tatsu while Ken had a bit more range on Shoryuken and a multi hit Tatsu.

Make Mr. Masters' ranged FS be Shoryu-Reppa and his close FS Shinryuken and we good.
Wouldn't Guren Senpukyaku make a better long-ranged option for a Final Smash?
 

smash puffle

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The boy didn't get announced today but Richter pretty much made me realize Ken is like 99.9% in the game now. HOPEFULLY.
 
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AreJay25

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Count me in. Ken's always been one of my favorites and having both him and Ryu just feels right.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Also worth noting is that Chrom does not have the Fire effects from Roy's moveset, despite beign an echo of him.

The opposite could happen to Ken, which means he could have Fire effects on his moveset, like a Fire Shoryuken.
 
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