K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Cyberguy64]

Uh, no. Villager's moveset all relates to stuff he can do in the game, and doesn't fundamentally change or confuse his identity. Rob and Trainer's moves are all themed around fitness. Game & Watch's identity is built around being decided retro, and ROB's all tie into his mechanical nature.

King K. Rool doesn't have the excuse of being a walking retro game nod like Pac-Man and G&W do. None of his abilities have creative or thematic synergy that says "yes, these all work together." They're a bunch of different things that work together separately but ultimately say nothing on their own.



okay, wow. I haven't insulted anybody. all I've tried to do is make a reasoned argument.

I wasn't aware this was a "positive thoughts on the character" only club.

We provide arguments, and you say "MMMmmm. Nope." And come right out to say our arguments aren't good enough because they're "fan arguments." Condescending, much? (Here comes that inevitable escalation.... They always act like the insulted party, after they come in here just to insult the character and someone calls them on it. I've heard this song and dance time and time again....)

K. Rool is always the leader of the Kremlings. He was a pirate from the very beginning. All he ever changes are his clothes and weapons. That's not enough for a fundamental shift of a character. There are diddly squat reasons why him wielding his many weapons in his king outfit confuses his character. Especially since costumes are a thing now.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

I've played all three DKCR games. You're going to have to use K. Rool, you have to use his DKCR incarnation. Adding in elements from Kaptain and K. Roolstein would make for a character without much theme or consistency; is he a monarch, a pirate, or a mad scientist?

As he's most notable, what does he bring to the table at all? What can you do to make a decent fighter out of this?

You're questioning how King. K Rool would work, when Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Fighters, Capt. Falcon, Pacman, Villager, and Little Mac are in?

 

[CJ Falcon]

Uh, no. Villager's moveset all relates to stuff he can do in the game, and doesn't fundamentally change or confuse his identity.

It really confuses you? I find it hilarious how an anthropomorphic crocodile wearing different costumes just boggles your mind beyond comprehension.

King K. Rool doesn't have the excuse of being a walking retro game nod like Pac-Man and G&W do.

He has the excuse of being a nod towards a long-running and highly successful franchise.

None of his abilities have creative or thematic synergy that says "yes, these all work together." They're a bunch of different things that work together separately but ultimately say nothing on their own.

So a character using different abilities that he has used throughout his history in games is just somehow incompatible?

okay, wow. I haven't insulted anybody.

You have no say on who is or isn't insulted by you.

all I've tried to do is make a reasoned argument.

Please, please try harder.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yes these factors do drive the the game. But they need to be balanced with the resources it costs to yield them.
A game like smash takes huge resources to create a new character and needs vigorous balance testing each time.

It's probably not worth it for them to assemble the development team back together after the game is already being sold just to sell some DLC.
Plus that would diminish the character hype for Smash 5.

There was already a call for more team members being hired.
Smash 5 comes out in a few months, so we must be on the same pge.

 

[RazorsawTF]

Insulting the character would be saying that he sucks and not giving any reasoning as to why. All I've said is that I find him thoroughly bland and that I don't think a skitzophrenic moveset for a character that isn't meant to be a walking archetype of a particular era or motif like G&W or Pac-Man is something they should put into making a fighter.

You have no say on who is or isn't insulted by you.

Insults involve insults.

Disagreement isn't an insult. If you consider it insulting, that's your prerogative.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Insulting the character would be saying that he sucks and not giving any reasoning as to why. All I've said is that I find him thoroughly bland and that I don't think a skitzophrenic moveset for a character that isn't meant to be a walking archetype of a particular era or motif like G&W or Pac-Man is something they should put into making a fighter.



Insults involve insults.

Disagreement isn't an insult. If you consider it insulting, that's your prerogative.

Are you done?

 

[DakotaBonez]

Alright, I've lost all faith in K. Rool's chances by this point and am gonna chalk him up as deconfirmed.
See yall in a month when I'm crawlin on my knees begging to not be sent to the plank when he's magically unlocked by some 3ds wii u transfer sorcery.

 

[Turokman5896]

Uh, no. Villager's moveset all relates to stuff he can do in the game, and doesn't fundamentally change or confuse his identity. Rob and Trainer's moves are all themed around fitness. Game & Watch's identity is built around being decided retro, and ROB's all tie into his mechanical nature.

King K. Rool doesn't have the excuse of being a walking retro game nod like Pac-Man and G&W do. None of his abilities have creative or thematic synergy that says "yes, these all work together." They're a bunch of different things that work together separately but ultimately say nothing on their own.



okay, wow. I haven't insulted anybody. all I've tried to do is make a reasoned argument.

I wasn't aware this was a "positive thoughts on the character" only club.

You're an absolute fool. Please stop.

Well guys, lets team up with our fellows who have also been boned and dlc push. Whether or not more are coming on the wiiu is not up to us, so let's do what we kan and make some noise with our friends!

 

[RazorsawTF]

You know, I had a very pleasant discussion about Smash Run where multiple individuals disagreed with me and were perfectly fine about it. Here, I got no attempt to even debate with me, just a bunch of "you're wrong and why are you being mean to us?"

I suppose I am done here.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

Insulting the character would be saying that he sucks and not giving any reasoning as to why. All I've said is that I find him thoroughly bland and that I don't think a skitzophrenic moveset for a character that isn't meant to be a walking archetype of a particular era or motif like G&W or Pac-Man is something they should put into making a fighter.

Sadly, this is just as you said; YOUR opinion. You can't say a character can't work because you don't think it will. With your logic, half the Smash roster would not be here. Only Sakurai (or whoever ends up the director of Smash) is the one and only one that has the final thought about a character. It would be wise that this "argument" stops because your not adding anything here, whatsoever. This thread and many others (Ridley's thread being the first) are going to get locked and 9 out of 10, it's because people just comes here to pour more salt on the wounds.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Your stance is literally "I can't comprehend how someone can fight in Smash Bros using skills that he uses in his games!"

Forgive us for finding that flimsy, and then being irritated when you stubbornly refuse to see why that's flimsy. (And again, you're doing this immediately after he's been deconfirmed. Kind of a **** move, there.)

 

[CJ Falcon]

You know, I had a very pleasant discussion about Smash Run where multiple individuals disagreed with me and were perfectly fine about it. Here, I got no attempt to even debate with me, just a bunch of "you're wrong and why are you being mean to us?"

I suppose I am done here.

Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because the thread you were posting on wasn't centered particularly on a single opinion which you then came to contradict with ridiculous arguments? Maybe the reason nobody attempted to debate with you would be because to do so would be as pointless as trying to debate with a rock.

 

[ImOnlyHereToTalkStarFox]

You know, I had a very pleasant discussion about Smash Run where multiple individuals disagreed with me and were perfectly fine about it. Here, I got no attempt to even debate with me, just a bunch of "you're wrong and why are you being mean to us?"

I suppose I am done here.

Roster confirmed with no King. K. Rool.
People aren't up for debate at the moment. Sorry to say. Just give them a break.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Well, on the bright side, at least I'll be able to beat the crap out of Sakurai Mii using Chuck Norris Mii and other characters I like already in the game, can't wait to fry his trolling ass as Bowser and Charizard.

 

[RazorsawTF]

Sadly, this is just as you said; YOUR opinion.

... yes? When did I ever claim what I was saying was FACT?

and no offense, but being told "that's just YOUR OPINION" after others have pointed to the beginning of this thread as definitive proof of his viability smacks of hypocrisy.

Your stance is literally "I can't comprehend how someone can fight in Smash Bros using skills that he uses in his games!"

That's not what I said at all. I've said that combining elements of K. Rool, Kaptain, Roolstein, and his boxer motif would create a skitzophrenic character that doesn't work or have the same justification that someone like G&W or Pac-Man would, and that his portrayal in the first game alone doesn't have enough that's interesting to make a character around either. Seriously he throws his hat, charges, and drops cannonballs. That's really dull.

(And again, you're doing this immediately after he's been deconfirmed. Kind of a **** move, there.)

dude, if you I were trying to rub it in, I'd be speaking very differently right now. If you think calling him "bland" is bashing him, I don't know what to tell you. Now, calling for Sakurai's head or disaparaging other characters for getting in instead, that's bashing.

 

[CJ Falcon]

... yes? When did I ever claim what I was saying was FACT?

and no offense, but being told "that's just YOUR OPINION" after others have pointed to the beginning of this thread as definitive proof of his viability smacks of hypocrisy.



That's not what I said at all. I've said that combining elements of K. Rool, Kaptain, Roolstein, and his boxer motif would create a skitzophrenic character that doesn't work or have the same justification that someone like G&W or Pac-Man would, and that his portrayal in the first game alone doesn't have enough that's interesting to make a character around either. Seriously he throws his hat, charges, and drops cannonballs. That's really dull.



dude, if you I were trying to rub it in, I'd be speaking very differently right now. If you think calling him "bland" is bashing him, I don't know what to tell you. Now, calling for Sakurai's head or disaparaging other characters for getting in instead, that's bashing.

Um excuse me, what happened to "I suppose I am done here"?

 

[RazorsawTF]

Well, if you're gonna rail on me on my way out and misrepresent my words and intent, I don't think I'm unjustified in defending myself. Whatever.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Um excuse me, what happened to "I suppose I am done here"?

Obviously we're not only dealing with a detractor, we're also dealing with a

 

[CJ Falcon]

Well, if you're gonna rail on me on my way out and misrepresent my words and intent, I don't think I'm unjustified in defending myself. Whatever.

Lol, if we did happen to misinterpret your words and intent, that's not our fault.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Obviously we're not only dealing with a detractor, we're also dealing with a

He fits all the check boxes. Recently joined, here just to be disparaging, overreacts to being called out, uses ridiculous, opinionated arguments that are touted as rational. Yeah. I've seen a few during my days in the trenches of Ridley.

 

[Dre89]

Ridley was handled horribly bad.

No he wasn't. I keep hearing people refer to how he was constantly teased. He was hinted to be a boss two times in an entire two years. It's even more trivial when you consider the fact that Sakurai posted pictures nearly every day of the year and yet he only got referenced twice in all that time. It was bat**** clear to anyone who wasn't an overspeculating-Smashboarder or anyone who didn't overstate the fact that he was the #5 request in the West, that he was going to be a boss from the start (ie. to the entire casual community).


People are conflating how much the big 3 were teased because they spent too much time speculating about it. Let's take a step back and look at how much they were actually 'teased' over the span of two years-

Ridley: Hinted to be a boss twice

Mewtwo: Greninja's hands didn't have webbing

K. Rool- Kritters in Smash Run and a kritter trophy.


None of that constitutes constant teasing, and in Ridley's case it was really obvious to the casual community that he was going to be a boss. It also didn't help that the Smashboards community got this idea in its collective head that a character not being disconfirmed was somehow a hint towards them being playable. That criteria was never stated by Sakurai and was manufactured by the community.

To Smashboarders it just seemed like more teasing because they spent so much time reading too much into it and devising theories about it.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

@ R RazorsawTF really isn't being contradictory or abrasive from what I can tell. I completely disagree, though. Making K. Rool a hodgepodge of different themes works because that's so in-character for him, to simply take on one persona and then switch to another. Just because Sakurai hasn't explored that type of character outside of thematic retro reps before doesn't mean he can't do it eventually. It probably only seems weird now because we haven't seen it. But even Mega Man has shades of this, pulling moves from a wide spectrum of his games despite having an overall "neutral" base appearance. I don't see why K. Rool can't be any different.

 

[Raxxel]

K. Rool a bland character? Don't kid yourself.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Ridley: Hinted to be a boss once. Never had anything about him spelled out, never mentioned by name or shown physically. Teased by Nintendo Twitter posts multiple times.

Mewtwo: Greninja's hands didn't have webbing. Sakurai specifically stated he wanted to put him in during an X & Y panel. Curently being hyped by Nintendo as a nostalgic tool.

K. Rool- Kritters in Smash Run and a kritter trophy. Abso-freaking-lutely nothing new from DK shown.

Fixed these for you. Geeze. At least learn about WHY someone believes something before you come in to dis their beliefs.

Also, a giant crocodile pirate king who is also a mad scientist is a bland character....

First he's too weird. Now he's bland. You. Are. A. Troll.

Edit: Whoop. Screwed up. Got them confused because they both lack avatars.

 

[Raxxel]

I am in a ****ish mood right now and would rather not have to listen people's dumb detractors that mean nothing.

 

[deebeethedeity]

I don't understand how Icarus get two reps and donkey kong gets none.... Not butthurt just curious

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't understand how Icarus get two reps and do gets none.... Not butthurt just curious

I think we all feel the same way.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I don't understand how Icarus get two reps and do gets none.... Not butthurt just curious

Because it's Sakurai, that's all I'm going to say for now.

 

[Raxxel]

I love how when we express how genuinely upset we are, we are labeled as butthurt, as if it's wrong to feel negative about something

 

[Robotic Operating Buddy]

@ R RazorsawTF I can see why you might think multi-persona K. Rool wouldn't work, however I'd like to point out that the various insane personalities of K. Rool are a core part of his character. He's a crazy king with multiple-personality disorder or delusions of grandeur, and that aspect of his chaotic personality is perfectly exemplified by a move set with multiple "costumes" in use. You are entirely correct when you say that the Villager's or G&W's move sets match their personality, and in that same token the K. Rool move set discussed here matches his personality.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

Ok, this isn't the place for the Ridley talk. But, I will say my final words about him.

Despite not being a "tease" to everyone. Despite not being a fan favorite choice in Japan. Despite being a hit or miss kinda of addition to Smash. It still, no matter what people say or what people think, Nintendo has handled things poorly, not just to Ridley but to other representatives (imo, mostly to DK). Ridley should have been properly disconfirmed like every damn non playable character, whether to hype a stage boss/playable boss or something, a simple "hey, Ridley's deconfirmed, but don't worry, we have a surprise for him, just wait". But nope, nothing. Abso-****ing-lutely nothing. The fact so many fan favorites and deserving reps are needed for existing reps are missing, mainly DK at this point, shows major flaws in this version of Smash, whether you think so or not. I actually wouldn't be surprised that by the end of all this, Nintendo could lose half of it's core Smash fan base all because of how everything boiled down.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I love how when we express how genuinely upset we are, we are labeled as butthurt, as if it's wrong to feel negative about something

I know right? we're obviously labeled that either because those fans got what they wanted or they just don't care in general(which would make me wonder why they're here in the first place)

 

[erico9001]

I think there's a point people on smashboards in general are missing...

There aren't actually that many big contenders left for Smash 4 DLC, other than veterans (who I doubt we'll seeing in the DLC).

It still is negative that K. Rool is not in the initial roster, but I don't see many other options for DLC. What, maybe just K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Krystal, Isaac, Rhythm Heaven Rep, and Mewtwo. There's 5 spots open on the roster...

The reason I exclude vets from the possibility of DLC is that it would appear like Nintendo just withheld characters so that you would have to pay for them later on = more $$$. The exception to this is mewtwo, who was not in Brawl. I suppose the other exceptions are Roy and Pichu, but we already have all of those FE reps and a marth clone, and does anyone really want Pichu?

Anyways, why abandon support for K. Rool? He still might get in through DLC, and be legal at tournies, online play, etc.

 

[RazorsawTF]

@ R RazorsawTF I can see why you might think multi-persona K. Rool wouldn't work, however I'd like to point out that the various insane personalities of K. Rool are a core part of his character. He's a crazy king with multiple-personality disorder or delusions of grandeur, and that aspect of his chaotic personality is perfectly exemplified by a move set with multiple "costumes" in use. You are entirely correct when you say that the Villager's or G&W's move sets match their personality, and in that same token the K. Rool move set discussed here matches his personality.

I never got the sense that K. Rool suffered from any kind of MPD, just that he liked to play dress up.

 

[Cpt.]

R.I.P. sweet king.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

If you really think about it, several characters are already like this. You have Mario, who uses his Super Mario World cape, which hardly ever shows up these days, as well as FLUDD, which is important in only one game (one which didn't feature the cape). They're two abilities/tools of his that are never featured together outside of Smash, and wouldn't seem to make any sense on the same moveset, yet Sakurai made it work. The only difference between Mario's mishmash of abilities and K. Rool's is that K. Rool wears different clothes between appearances.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I never got the sense that K. Rool suffered from any kind of MPD, just that he liked to play dress up.

Then as many have said, you don't know anything about K. Rool.

 

[MrHomelessHobo]

Remember, the King will never die.

The king will live, FOREVER!

 

[Robotic Operating Buddy]

I never got the sense that K. Rool suffered from any kind of MPD, just that he liked to play dress up.

I always got the impression that he was not exactly right in the head. (just listen to that laugh, and that twitching eye!)
And whenever he got into costume he really got into it, so maybe not so much insane but perhaps more of a thespian?

 

[Cyberguy64]

I never got the sense that K. Rool suffered from any kind of MPD, just that he liked to play dress up.

And so it still boils down to ."I" can't see it this way, so it's wrong.

Again, it's fine for you to think that, it's your opinion. But then, why are you still here? We don't want you here if you're just going to tout your minority opinion like it's the gold standard and throw out everything we have to say.

And again, if he likes to play dress up, the how is it a bad character design for him to use that as part of his character and fighting style in Smash!?

I also subscribe to the mad thespian theory of K. Rool's costumes. Part of why would be the hammy K. Rool voice in the TV show. He never dressed up, but he was mad, eloquent, and hammy and the same concept came across.