Just how does DI work, anyway?

[Fortress]

So, I felt like posing a serious question here. I've watched quite a bit of video, read up on it, and watched DI being performed, but I still have such a small understanding of how it works and how to perform the technique, that I find myself dying at percents that are survivable. I felt like this would be as good a place as any to get the skinny on it, and figure out just how in the world it works.

I understand that there are different types of DI, being standard, smash, and tap, but all I know is that smash uses the c-stick (I know nothing more), and just a few general guidelines for standard DI (such as, tilt the stick to the left or right for vertical knockback, and diagonally upwards for horizontal knockback). I really don't have a grasp on how this works. So, with that in mind, I was hoping that this thread would end up being a conglomeration of tips, tricks, and thoughts from some of the great minds on here. And, who knows, maybe a rookie like myself asking what could be considered a commonsense question could open up some new avenues of thought for players who otherwise thought they had DI down.

Let's begin.

I guess I'll kick off the discussion and get things rolling. Might as well.

WHAT I KNOW (read as: 'what I don't know')

Standard DI: For starters, I'm sure that anybody who is reading here has a grasp of what DI is and what it's supposed to accomplish; Directional Influence is an advanced technique used to survive incredible knockback at otherwise lethal percentages. Those times where you thought you knocked your opponent straight from Battlefield to Yoshi's Island and they survived? That's good DI at work. In the simplest terms that I've ever understood it, DI is 'moving' your character while tumbling such that they 'buffer' out as much knockback as possible, increasing survival rates.

For 'standard' DI (using the control stick), this involves holding the stick in a direction that will 'cancel' out your knockback to a small extent, usually perpendicular to where you're being sent flying. If you're being sent straight up into the air, hold the stick left or right (whichever direction will depend on how you feel your opponent will follow through with their attack), usually such that you're going to be flying away from your opponent. If you're sent horizontally, tilt the control stick diagonally up and towards the stage if knocked off, or away from the opponent if you will land on the stage and be able to tech. I think.

Not only is DI used to save you from offstage doom, but to escape combos and infinite jabs as well. All of those times that you were pinned down by Link, Fox, or Sheik in the **** tent corner on Hyrule Castle? Odds are, DI could've gotten you out of there before the inevitable up-special/up-smash/whatever Sheik can do out of a jab. That time where a Ness main was just toying with you with PK fire traps? Good DI can get you out of that, too. ****ing smart bombs? You get the idea; DI saves.

And, well, that's really all I know.

 

[Phaiyte]

Well, when you get hit, smash that joystick in the direction you want to go, which is usually opposite the direction you are going.

 

[Fortress]

Well, when you get hit, smash that joystick in the direction you want to go, which is usually opposite the direction you are going.

From what I'm understanding and what I've been reading and watching, there's so much more to it than that. I feel as if I'm doing something very wrong if doing just that hasn't been cutting it for me.

Also, I added to the OP.

 

[Chzrm3]

Oo, this is a good thread. I've never actually been clear on whether I'm DIing right, it's really tough to tell sometimes.

Well, when you get hit, smash that joystick in the direction you want to go, which is usually opposite the direction you are going.

I think this is a common misconception - don't you actually have to do it perpendicular for it to have any effect? I remember reading a while ago that if you do it along the same line that you're traveling, it'll have no effect.

I could be totally wrong.

 

[Fortress]

I've read perpendicular movement on the stick is what does it, too. But, if you're trapped in, say, PK fire, I'm pretty sure any movement away from the 'half' of PK fire that you're trapped in will bust you out. I have such a horrible idea of how to apply DI that I'm pretty behind on my offstage game. I have trouble grasping DI, namely Smash DI with the c-stick. I know there's stuff you can do with both sticks at once, but I'm not grasping it. No matter how much I've read and watched, I just haven't got it down.

 

[XalchemistX]

All of those times that you were pinned down by Link, Fox, or Sheik in the **** tent corner on Hyrule Castle? That time where a Ness main was just toying with you with PK fire traps?.

I use to be in all those situations... until I got life alert.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/

Here you go

 

[Fortress]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/

Here you go

Welp. Time to read, I suppose. I've read that thread already, but I guess it couldn't hurt to go over it another time.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

What else do you want to know then?

 

[meow]

Do you want to know about SDI?

 

[Fortress]

I would love insight into all of the DI. Still reading that thing though, and getting thrashed by a bot for the sake of testing.

 

[Nazo]

 

[Phaiyte]

Any direction works, perpendicular is mostly a survival thing from hard hits like a Marth FSmash. Just don't get caught holding down when you get whacked by Ganon's FTilt or Sheik's Fair

 

[a vehicle]

One of the things that I hate the most from the melee community is that they're no very open to teaching new players about advanced techniques when they should PRIORITISE that everyone knows how to play the game at it's fullest.
Perfect world scenario? A sticky that reads "ARE YOU NEW TO SMASH? READ THIS" all over the forums where everything it's explained with M2K-like thoroughness
For a more emotional idea of what I'm saying please watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NO3VTXqMCoo#t=133
Jon obviously knows something and it's being a huge **** about it

 

[DrinkingFood]

Just a quick synopsis or w/e on DI for anyone that doesn't wanna read pages of stuff

Trajectory DI or just DI:
Occurs on the frame just after hitlag, or the first frame of knockback. Influences trajectory you can fly. Perfect DI is holding the control stick at 90 degrees from the move's base trajectory, which results in an 18 degree change from the base knockback trajectory in the direction that you hold the stick. Surviving kill moves off the side requires up+toward the stage, or just up for low angle moves, sideways for moves that kill off the top, and towards the stage for meteors/spikes. For combos, this depends heavily on a character's vertical and horizontal follow-up ability, but general you want to get back down to the ground ASAP so you'd DI down and away for anything that doesn't send straight up, or sideways for things that do.

Smash-DI or SDI
Occurs during hitlag frames. Influences character position during hitlag. Perfect SDI is smash inputs on the control stick every frame (or every other frame, not sure, but it's not important unless you're making TAS stuff). Of course, this isn't humanly possible, but what IS is rolling the control stick during hitlag to quickly input multiple SDI inputs in the general direction you want. Where you would WANT to SDI should be pretty obvious- away from blastzones against kill moves, and away from opponent during combos. SDIing towards the wall or ledge is how you make yourself collide with it when hit during a low recovery in order to edge tech. This can't be used to collide with the ground directly but can put you in a position to use regular DI/ASDI to do so. You can't SDI down when hit while grounded (you're already as low as you can go) and moves that send horizontally or lower can't be SDI'd up when hit while grounded.

Automatic Smash-DI or ASDI
Occurs only the frame just after hitlag, same as DI. Influences character position on that frame. Can be done by just holding control stick or c-stick (which is prioritized for ASDI over control stick) allowing Trajectory DI input to be separated from ASDI input. This allows for perfect* ASDI and perfect* DI to both be done on the same hit, called Double-stick DI, or DSDI. ASDI can be used to collide with any surface, whereas SDI can't collide with floors; this is what allows pseudo-crouch canceling.

*perfect is only used to refer to "going where you want to go as well as you can"; often times DSDI is used to collide with floors from strong attacks, meaning the perfect DI might be down and away while the perfect ASDI is down. "Perfect" will always depend on the goal, however.

If I'm wrong on this **** somebody please call me out, but I'm fairly certain I'm not

 

[Giygacoal]

Just to clarify on the very likely confusion, trajectory DI and smash DI are completely different mechanics. Smash DI isn't even real DI; it's just a type of drifting. Trajectory DI is about actually changing the angle.

Also, if you're already headed perfectly toward the upper corner of the stage, it's best not to DI.

 

[Fortress]

Just to clarify on the very likely confusion, trajectory DI and smash DI are completely different mechanics. Smash DI isn't even real DI; it's just a type of drifting. Trajectory DI is actually about changing the angle.

Also, if you're already headed perfectly toward the upper corner of the stage, it's best not to DI.

I didn't know either of those things, but I'll keep it in mind.

 

[The_NZA]

It seems you have regular di down. Just know that "Regular DI" can be broken down to Survival DI and just regular Di. Survival DI is the perpendicular input you already spoke of. But when you are grabbed/comboed, it is often efficient to straight hold away from an opponent to escape the chain of attacks that are to come (consider when a pikachu aaaaaaaaa's you, if you hold towards him you move into the hits but if you hold away, you escape).

To explain the other DI's, lets talk about "hitstun" and "hit lag".
Hit stun is when your hit and being sent somewhere stunned, unable to jump/airdodge/do anything for a short while.
Hit lag is when you get hit and the game freezes for a set period of time, before your body actually gets sent off. Consider when captain falcon knees you (electric moves have more hitlag than other moves). You might notice the screen freeze I am talking about.

Any time you are hit, you first have hit lag, and then hit stun as your body goes flying.

Smash DI can only occur during hitlag. Basically, during hitlag, you have a number of frames where you can physically affect your position. Note: this is not trajectory, this is purely the physical space your character occupies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FkdmIEX9vg
See how the Falco makes contact with the motion bomb? Well usually, you'd get sent away from the stage. But what this falco player does is during the hitlag of the explosion, he uses SDI to move his body against the surface of the stage, and techs.

How do you do it?You use the analog stick during hitlag to alter your position. Now, each attack usually has multiple "instances" of frozen hitlag frames. A person with computer reflexes could theoretically smash the analog stick over and over again with each instance to alter his/her position significantly. However, this is usually unfeasible considering you have to do smash di, and then immediately press the analog stick in a different direction to initial regular DI. However, smash brothers reads diagonal inputs of the stick as instances of smash DI, so the technique to input multiple instances of smash DI most efficiently is to roll the analog stick.

Imagine if I roll the analog stick from bottom right to top right during the hitlag of a move. This would register as 6 inputs, i believe, moving your physical position a noticeable amount. This becomes important if you are trying to move closer to an edge to tech off it (as observed in that falco video).

ASDI:
This is the last form of DI, also known as automatic smash DI. Essentially, during the first frame of hitstun (after hitlag has ended), you can actually marginally change your position. Now, as I understand it, part of why its called "automatic smash di" is because you the controller reads where your analog stick's position is during that first frame of hitstun, and your position moves a little in that direction before your trajectory is determined. This might be the real reason why, when someone is aaaaaaaing you with pikachu, you can push out of it by holding the stick away (your entering hitstun in quick succession, and your position is shifting during the first frame of hitstun each time, so holding away moves you positionally away from your opponent).

Now, you might think this is useless information since during the first frame of hitstun, the game starts reading your regular DI and you can't possibly ASDI at the same time (and Regular DI will always be more impactful than ASDI). But thats where you are wrong.

It turns out, in Smash, if your Cstick is not in neutral, it will actually be read to determine your ASDI instead of the position of your analog stick. Basically, your Cstick is prioritized over your analog stick. This means you can hold your analog stick and cstick in different directions, and during frame 1, your cstick position will be read to determine ASDI while your analog stick will be used to determine regular DI.

EXAMPLE PROBLEM:
Imagine your recovering with fox from the bottom left corner of Final Destination. Your Marth opponent fsmashes you as you ride up the wall, trying to recover. How should you DI?

The Answer:
1. Hit L + up right before you get hit
2. Roll the Analog stick from the bottom right to the top right
3. (if the smashdi edgetech fails) hold the cstick to the right and the analog stick to the top right.

This makes it so you will attempt to wall/edgetech, while positionally using ASDI to be as close to the stage as possible and using Survival DI to minimize the death trajectory.

 

[Fortress]

Very informative and helpful. I knew about DI'ing out of moves like Link's jabs and Fox's kicks and whatnot, but not much else. I also knew hitlag and hitstun, but it was good to have some more insight into it I'm going to keep reading this.

 

[Comeback Kid]

I love this kind of visual guide.

 

[Fortress]

It's always a great day when 'Dorf gets to smash the green kid.

 

[Mera Mera]

I have a couple things to add.

Trajectory DI:
Keep in mind that your character is falling at all times (except in hitlag, those freeze frames right after you're hit), even when in hit stun /knockback. This is super noticeable if you are a fast faller. The reason this matters? Well, in order to change your Trajectory by the highest amount (18 degrees), you need to hold the control stick perpendicular to the angle the move launches you at, not the angle it looks like it makes on your particular character. Meaning if you're Fox, and a move seems to hit you at 20 degrees, the move might actually launch you at 40 degrees, but it just looks like 20 degrees because you were falling. So if you want to go in the upper corner of the screen (where you should always try to direct your trajectory when trying to survive, as it's the farthest away and gives you fall time for a better recovery), then you should DI at 130 degrees (perpendicular from 40 degrees), not at 110 degrees (perpendicular from 20 degrees). This would give you a trajectory of 48 degrees, which is likely the best you could do (though it is position and stage dependent).
Note: I do not know how to predict what angle a move hits at when being hit as Fox, I just used the 40 degrees 20 degrees thing as an example. If you want to know what angle a move hits at you can look it up or get a good idea by hitting the floatiest character (jiggs?) without having the person DI.

Also, as for combo DI, directing your trajectory to be away is best, but that doesn't mean DI'ing away only. To make the trajectory farthest to the right/left, you will have a downward component in you DI unless the move is hitting you straight up, in order for you to get that maximum 18 degrees shift.

EDIT: There might be times you want to direct your trajectory upwards for combo DI. An example would be when the character you're facing cannot change their air momentum and they've committed to a direction moving quickly in one direction and not being super close to the ground (how close depends on how fast their fast fall is). If this is the situation, directing your DI up (and backwards when possible), will mean that the whole time that they are unable to reverse their momentum (until they second jump or land, second jump requiring the move to reach IASA frames, which are near the end), they are moving away from where you are going. The time they spend backtracking may be enough time for you to be done with hit lag.

Smash DI:
Just a tip, but for getting out of multi hit Jab or multihit moves like Lucario's up B, you should hold the c-stick the away as well as continually mashing or rotating back and forth in a quarter circle away with the joy stick. The reason you hold the c-stick is so that the automatic SDI is always perfectly away, and then the sloppy/inconsistent analog ones are just bonus.



This last bit I'm not 100% sure all the information is right, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Same with the stuff above, though I'm more confident on that. Also, all these concepts are things I remember from reading Melee threads, so if something here is different in PM, I wouldn't know.

For stage teching: This technique is further complicated by the way teching works. If you hit L/R in hit stun, it will not count it as a tech. You have to hit L/R before those freeze frames or after, not during. Before is possible since to tech you have to hit L/R within 20 frames of hitting the wall/ceiling/floor, which is a third of a second (which is pretty long). Mashing dodge is not advisable as if you hit L/R all the way down (assuming light shield comes back in PM, right now it's if you hit L/R in general), it will count as a tech attempt and after 20 frames are up and you haven't hit something, it won't accept a new tech input for the following 20 frames (frames 21-40 after the first L/R hit).

 

[Strong Badam]

who made this?

 

[Rarik]

http://www.reddit.com/user/djloreddit made it.

 

[Kally Wally]

who made this?

A guy called DJLO. You can find all his GIFs, and ones that have been requested, here.

 

[Ace55]

Well, when you get hit, smash that joystick in the direction you want to go, which is usually opposite the direction you are going.

Yeah this is false, if you get hit -> and you DI <- nothing is going to happen. Same for -> with -> DI. Any other direction you DI in will have some effect on the trajectory you're sent at with a 90 degree angle influencing it the most.


Tags on that GIF should've been ECDI, WCDI, something else (Midwest perhaps).

 

[MookieRah]

All this talk about what DI is and not a single person remarks on a way to learn how to consistently DI in matches.

The first thing to learn good DI is to know that it's more about knowing yourself than being ultimately aware of your opponents everything. You cannot DI perfectly every time because you cannot guess what and when your opponent will hit you with every time. What you can be very certain of, and can learn to react to every time, is when you **** up and are in a vulnerable position. If you learn to always input the most appropriate DI whenever you feel like you just screwed up, you will likely DI a good percentage of the kill moves your opponent throws at you.

 

[TreK]

I'm a maths guy, so I just think of DI as being able to add another vector in the direction I desire to my velocity vector, and aiming for the diagonal trajectories to benefit from the most time and distance to recover from hitstun. Killmoves send you at 45% usually, but due to gravity, slowing down is almost never the optimal solution : compensating by bringing your angle up is.
And SDI is simply a translation before launch to me. You do it backwards during combos to escape their reach, and forward when killed to increase the distance between you and death.

Now, crouch canceling makes no sense whatsoever.

As for the whole mental aspect of it...
1) whenever you do anything that you can't **** up by DIing, DI. In example, whenever you wavedash, DI preemptively during the cooldown. Even if it's going to be useless 90% of the time, it's going to save your ass 10% of the time.
2) adapt : you don't DI combos and killmoves the same way. Hell, you don't DI all combos and all killmoves the same way.
3) during combos that you know are guaranteed, do not DI the moves optimally. Mix your DI up to mess their timing and positioning up. Just DI the last hit properly, not the rest.
4) mix up between normal DI and crouch canceling if you can.

 

[Fortress]

My problem was that I just didn't know how to perform it in the first place.

 

[Phaiyte]

My problem was that I just didn't know how to perform it in the first place.

It's literally this easy
http://imgur.com/N76u2Wr