Jungle Republic Mafia: To Clarify, the Werewolves Won The Game. Here Marks a New Age in Activity Reform.

[Maven89]

kevin can live today cuz he made a good point about the fact that scum also has to scumhunt. though i don't think that point is really relevant until later on in the game

vote: Lore

I don’t see how posting anything meta about factions is townie

 

[KevinM]

Oh man I really hate that Pythag post, it appeals to how I normally want to play a mafia game and that speaks to the core of me but at the same time.. in a game with 5 scum and 7 town... I hate how flippantly he tries to put off a potential noob town mislynch. Sure maybe I’m a sucker for AtE and I’m getting souped again but the way Raxxel has played these first few pages reeks of new townie, being so blatantly self preservative is usually a pro-town outlook to me as a new player. I am not trying to misrepresent the numbers since obviously we don’t hit LYLO/MYLO until one of the factions is eliminated but this feels like one of those games where we need to jump out ahead.

vote Pythag

 

[KevinM]

Hey Mac, glad you decided to play. The moment you’re indecisive I’m going to shove a wagon on you and inevitably be right. So be Town and let’s do this shall we? <3

 

[KevinM]

there's way too much text in this post

vote: KevinM

Someone has to Ryker day1 if Ryker isn’t here.

 

[Brindor]

Vote: KevinM
Dude's too shifty for my taste

 

[Maven89]

Vote: KevinM
Dude's too shifty for my taste

Can you elaborate on this? What’s shifty about him?

Oh man I really hate that Pythag post, it appeals to how I normally want to play a mafia game and that speaks to the core of me but at the same time.. in a game with 5 scum and 7 town... I hate how flippantly he tries to put off a potential noob town mislynch. Sure maybe I’m a sucker for AtE and I’m getting souped again but the way Raxxel has played these first few pages reeks of new townie, being so blatantly self preservative is usually a pro-town outlook to me as a new player. I am not trying to misrepresent the numbers since obviously we don’t hit LYLO/MYLO until one of the factions is eliminated but this feels like one of those games where we need to jump out ahead.

vote Pythag

Why would you put this on Pythag but not Red Ryu whose voting for Raxxel?

 

[Lore]

Will post about the Raxxel content in my next post, for convenience of reading.

He was town. Doop called him out on it and doop was mafia.

Kev does Red's first post throw up any alarm bells to you?

Thanks! I just reread that section. So at worst I'll take Tom's post as null. I'm a bit embarassed that I didn't realize it was a copy paste, too.

Maven also backed up Doop in finding it weird, and after I replaced Maven, I said that I agreed on Maven's viewpoint. Ironic how that's literally happening again here, with Maven and I both talking about the Tom post lol.

were you for inactive lynches in the summer bash game? i can't remember

In both the summer game and the follow up game, yeah. I have begun to agree with Ryker that we need to police that behavior. Thankfully, no one seems to be doing it again so far. Unless I missed someone.

This game I mostly brought it up to pre-commit to a Maven lynch if he did the same behavior three-ish games in a row lol. Instead he seems to be active and posting, which I'm happy to see.

these two posts are weird to me - im pretty sure tom posted marshy's post verbatim... my dude even kept the Town JOAT part which is a role that's not even in this game. i can't tell if my sarcasm detectors are off but it seems like yall were takin it semi seriously?

Lore how is it relevant at all to this game whether or not marshy was scum?

Maven89 your post was just confusing cuz Tom didn't even mention you in it

anyway this is a decent start to a mafia game, the joke vote stage seemed to have come and went super fast. and then you got ppl like Raxxel already coming out with some seemingly real scumhunting analysis. the question is whether or not he got serious because the pressure was on him or for some other reason

My gut instinct is to find early stuff like that suspicious, but I vaguely recalled that backfiring in that game with Marshy. I wanted to reread before doing a full commit to finding it weird, to try to train out the bad suspicion habit. It's still hilarious to me how Maven and I were both consistent in bringing up the same early post LOL. After seeing the Marshy bit again and the aftermath, I don't find anything wrong with Tom's post.

I also didn't realize it was a copy paste; I thought the JOAT was just a hypothetical role example since it was guaranteed to not be in the game lol. I was being dumb.

On your Raxxel point: considering how the only one he's serious about is the person putting pressure on him, I think that at minimum we're looking at OMGUS and not scumhunting. More in my next post.

 

[Lore]

Lots of Raxxel stuff in this one. I swear I don't intend to make protracted 1v1s if I can help it, there's just a lot of noteworthy imo content here.

You can vote me if you want, it's a mistake and you'll regret it however

This reeks. Your first line of defense is "don't kill me, you'll regret it!" and not the reasoning you bring up later, that you found my vote reasoning to be strained?

Hinting that you're a Power Role this early makes zero sense, and simply saying you're town (as the reason we'd regret it) is a nonsense defense. Why not just say your reasoning?

I suppose my best bet right now since we're using vote pressure early is to try and decide whether someone's reasoning for implicating someone else sounds rational or not.

I honestly believe Lore's reasoning to vote for me is a huge stretch btw. I made a joke, I don't see how that can be fake tbh.

Vote Lore

Fam if you think a vote is purely for pressure and is on you, the right call is to go chill with it instead of leaping to Oh My God You Suck votes. Another good call would be to pressure people who hopped on your wagon after the early vote, without pressuring the initial voter. This entire sequence from you (including the Ryu overanalysis) feels like a player feeling the pressure, voting/suspecting as a knee jerk defense.

You're new, so for future reference that type of reaction is nicknamed Oh My God You Suck (or OMGUS). I will dig up a wiki link with acronyms etc later for you.


I did find your joke to feel forced, but I'll be honest with you: the vote was entirely for pressure, even if I found the original post to be weird. It was meant to see what reactions happened around you, with what players hopped on your wagon or leapt to defend you. I wasn't expecting you to get this strong of a reaction directly from you, but I'll take it.

He's already made a play, and I've made my judgement based off said play. To me he seems to want to steer the conversation early, and that screams suspicion to me.

Also yes I'm nervous, I have something to prove now especially with my bad play earlier.

Hypothetical: imagine someone else did the exact same post I did, but it was targeted at Rajam for his Vote towards you. Someone else found it to be forced but worse on his end of the convo, so they vote for him instead.

Would you still find that person to be suspicious for steering the conversation? Really take a second and self-analyze for a sec.

 

[Brindor]

Can you elaborate on this? What’s shifty about him?



Why would you put this on Pythag but not Red Ryu whose voting for Raxxel?

Idk, it's just a vague feeling I have. He's speaking too much, making too many accusations against overs, it's all a bit suspicious.
I'm a newbie at this so then again, maybe my judgement is misaligned

 

[Lore]

This next post is important imo whether you're Town or Scum Raxxel , so I separated it. To be clear, I do find your behavior to still be weird and voteworthy. This is regardless of alignment and is meant more as something every player has to learn their first game or two. I did the exact same thing in my first game, to the point of pushing for a No Lynch Day 1.

So, does killing a town hold no weight to you then? Is it not the goal of the game to avoid killing as many townies as possible while singling out the scum?

As either faction, it's a common misconception that Town's best call is to not kill people. This leads to your point being brought up in almost everyone's first game.

In actuality, every single role is disposable and killable. Your goal as Town is to find Scum, and that's it. If you die but your faction wins, you still win. I've seen people die early but still get voted MVP in games.

Let's do a hypothetical here. Imagine that the momentum kept going here, and you got lynched today. Somehow, you ended up flipping town. In that situation, your fellow townspeople suddenly have a wagon to read: the people who hopped on the Town Lynch early become super suspect, like myself or Ryu. The people who voted then at the last second pulled their vote, or the ones who loudly abstained? Also suspect.

Even a mislynch gives important context and information for the rest of the players, since it provides a Role Reveal (or "flip"). Concrete evidence and info. It's why getting people to vote is so important, too; it provides a paper trail and firm statements that can be used to read them post-flip.

So to sum it up: killing is fine and is pro-town.

(brb work sped up for a sec)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm a town. If I die, that makes it easier for scum to control the vote.

Generic answer, give me more to work with.

Vote: KevinM
Dude's too shifty for my taste

Why is he shifty?

Pythag is Raxxel town or scum if you had a gun to your head to answer?

I’m putting him in scum category with his answers.

 

[Raxxel]

This next post is important imo whether you're Town or Scum Raxxel , so I separated it. To be clear, I do find your behavior to still be weird and voteworthy. This is regardless of alignment and is meant more as something every player has to learn their first game or two. I did the exact same thing in my first game, to the point of pushing for a No Lynch Day 1.




As either faction, it's a common misconception that Town's best call is to not kill people. This leads to your point being brought up in almost everyone's first game.

In actuality, every single role is disposable and killable. Your goal as Town is to find Scum, and that's it. If you die but your faction wins, you still win. I've seen people die early but still get voted MVP in games.

Let's do a hypothetical here. Imagine that the momentum kept going here, and you got lynched today. Somehow, you ended up flipping town. In that situation, your fellow townspeople suddenly have a wagon to read: the people who hopped on the Town Lynch early become super suspect, like myself or Ryu. The people who voted then at the last second pulled their vote, or the ones who loudly abstained? Also suspect.

Even a mislynch gives important context and information for the rest of the players, since it provides a Role Reveal (or "flip"). Concrete evidence and info. It's why getting people to vote is so important, too; it provides a paper trail and firm statements that can be used to read them post-flip.

So to sum it up: killing is fine and is pro-town.

(brb work sped up for a sec)

Fair enough on killing town not necessarily being a negative.

Having slept on it, I think I should definitely chill a little bit, as I am speaking under pressure.

Generic answer, give me more to work with.



Why is he shifty?

Pythag is Raxxel town or scum if you had a gun to your head to answer?

I’m putting him in scum category with his answers.

I have nothing else to say. My answer is generic because I can't prove I'm town unless I happen to nail a scum, which won't be for a while. However, Lore gave me a lot to think about, and I realize now that I have to take a risk. I have to consider something I haven't yet. I've gone over the people who have accused me, but if you take a step back, they're right to do so given my terrible misplay earlier. What about the people who defend me though? It's hard to say they have motivation to do so if they are scum, but consider this for a second. What happens when I die and am townie? The people who abstained from ever voting for me in the first place now suddenly look a lot less suspicious while attention goes to those who voted and stuck with it or voted and withdrew last second. Meanwhile they look clean. They have the knowledge as to who is town and who isn't, so if I look to those who have defended me despite the evidence stacked against me, I can possibly parse who may have more knowledge than others.

KevinM speaks like someone with experience playing with someone like me. So I'll exclude him from my analysis for now.

Vote Mac

 

[#HBC | Mac]

gonna stop posting cuz i dont wanna go too ham right away. but first:

If he was lynched right now I'd be fine.
if he's town he played it wrong.
if he's scum he played it wrong.
I'm willing to see how it goes throughout the day, but it kinda smacks of 'why me fry me' initially.

What do you make of his post where he voted and responded to your question? Was his early play a scum slip or noob blunder?

i googled why me fry me and saw this: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Why_me_fry_me#When_Not_to_use_WMFM

Hey Mac, glad you decided to play. The moment you’re indecisive I’m going to shove a wagon on you and inevitably be right. So be Town and let’s do this shall we? <3

do whatcha gotta do but i aint getting lynched this game*

*doesn't apply if scum outnumbers town during the Day

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh whoops, i accidentally posted the top part of that post (before the KevinM quote). it was a draft from last night that i decided not to finish / post

pls disregard

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I don’t see how posting anything meta about factions is townie

you're not wrong

did my post make you feel some type of way about my slot?

 

[KevinM]

Can you elaborate on this? What’s shifty about him?



Why would you put this on Pythag but not Red Ryu whose voting for Raxxel?

Because Red Ryu didn’t specifically say any of the things I actually wrote down. Keep up pal. Reading now

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Fair enough on killing town not necessarily being a negative.

Having slept on it, I think I should definitely chill a little bit, as I am speaking under pressure.

I have nothing else to say. My answer is generic because I can't prove I'm town unless I happen to nail a scum, which won't be for a while. However, Lore gave me a lot to think about, and I realize now that I have to take a risk. I have to consider something I haven't yet. I've gone over the people who have accused me, but if you take a step back, they're right to do so given my terrible misplay earlier. What about the people who defend me though? It's hard to say they have motivation to do so if they are scum, but consider this for a second. What happens when I die and am townie? The people who abstained from ever voting for me in the first place now suddenly look a lot less suspicious while attention goes to those who voted and stuck with it or voted and withdrew last second. Meanwhile they look clean. They have the knowledge as to who is town and who isn't, so if I look to those who have defended me despite the evidence stacked against me, I can possibly parse who may have more knowledge than others.

KevinM speaks like someone with experience playing with someone like me. So I'll exclude him from my analysis for now.

Vote Mac

you're not allowed to edit posts

also to be clear you find me scummy for not voting for you?

 

[KevinM]

Idk, it's just a vague feeling I have. He's speaking too much, making too many accusations against overs, it's all a bit suspicious.
I'm a newbie at this so then again, maybe my judgement is misaligned

“Brindor - Newbie Numba Twobie! Heya man, kinda gonna go with the same question here and say have you played before? If the answer is yes and its a game here then can you point me to the game, and if it's no, can you give me a quick answer of how you think you're going to be looking to catch a scumbucket.”

So i guess you answered part 1 for me, part two I’m seeing how your initially looking at the game but do you think me pressuring multiple slots suspicious or do you not like how quickly it’s moving? Also would further like you to answer what you’re looking at to scumhunt if possible.

 

[KevinM]

... i don’t know why that got small but I’m about it

 

[KevinM]

do whatcha gotta do but i aint getting lynched this game*

*doesn't apply if scum outnumbers town during the Day

Are we finally playing a game together where we can work together? My heart soars!

 

[KevinM]

Mac you have the ability to end this day right now by lynching someone just you, you’re the end all, be all hammer. What slot do you use it on?

 

[Raxxel]

you're not allowed to edit posts

also to be clear you find me scummy for not voting for you?

Apologies, I accidentally omitted something from a sentence and it was bothering me.

And yes, only because my behavior up until this point has been scummy, and to not find me suspect might mean you know something others don't. Although that wiki you linked implies you have reasoning similar to Kevin's. I'll keep the vote on you for now, bit that may change soon if I find others oddly defensive of me.

 

[Lore]

Fair enough on killing town not necessarily being a negative.

Having slept on it, I think I should definitely chill a little bit, as I am speaking under pressure.

I have nothing else to say. My answer is generic because I can't prove I'm town unless I happen to nail a scum, which won't be for a while. However, Lore gave me a lot to think about, and I realize now that I have to take a risk. I have to consider something I haven't yet. I've gone over the people who have accused me, but if you take a step back, they're right to do so given my terrible misplay earlier. What about the people who defend me though? It's hard to say they have motivation to do so if they are scum, but consider this for a second. What happens when I die and am townie? The people who abstained from ever voting for me in the first place now suddenly look a lot less suspicious while attention goes to those who voted and stuck with it or voted and withdrew last second. Meanwhile they look clean. They have the knowledge as to who is town and who isn't, so if I look to those who have defended me despite the evidence stacked against me, I can possibly parse who may have more knowledge than others.

KevinM speaks like someone with experience playing with someone like me. So I'll exclude him from my analysis for now.

Vote Mac

Neat, you picked up on how I left out people who defend you from the start. The "loudly abstaining" people was pointed more towards the end of the Day Phase, where some people suddenly start loudly repeating that they think the lynch is a bad idea.

I intentionally left out the defending players, in order to see if you would actually think through things or just hop on my examples. The latter would just continue my scum read on you, the former softens it.


While I still find your early play suspicious and may come back to it after some flips, for now I think I'm comfortable reading you as newbie town.

Unvote


Why does Mac seem worse than KevinM, if they both are acting similar according to your most recent post?

 

[Pythag]

unvote
I reread that why me fry me and it specifically said not to use it with inexperienced players.
That combined with how Raxxel has been playing has me thinking he’s more noob, and I need to lighten up.


Vote : Red Ryu

I don’t really like your first post, nor do I like your position on the Raxxel wagon.

 

[Pythag]

Frick. Hello all bold.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Mac you have the ability to end this day right now by lynching someone just you, you’re the end all, be all hammer. What slot do you use it on?

Lore .

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Apologies, I accidentally omitted something from a sentence and it was bothering me.

And yes, only because my behavior up until this point has been scummy, and to not find me suspect might mean you know something others don't. Although that wiki you linked implies you have reasoning similar to Kevin's. I'll keep the vote on you for now, bit that may change soon if I find others oddly defensive of me.

2 things:
read up on WIFOM: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM
i thought what you said initially merited some attn but all your subsequent posts read newbie to me and not worth pursuing

and because i did accidentally drop that mafiascum link i might as well explain what my initial thought process behind it was - last night i felt similarly to KevinM that pythags post felt off and was gonna ask him what he thought about you + the section of the wiki i linked.

 

[Lore]

Lore .

Instead of dropping a vote out of nowhere then answering this question with a low-effort response, do you mind sharing reasoning?

You said that the Marshy-comparison posts were weird, but that's all the reason I've seen. And you seemed to have Maven and I as equal in that post.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Lore .

though to expand on this KevinM

i will say that oftentimes in early game that a bunch of town reads pop out to me / others right off the bat. This game however, has not been like that. lots of players lookin kinda grody

not a fan of Lore's reaction to Tom's post. even if he took what Tom posted seriously, i'm not sure why it would merit so much attention to him that he'd feel the need to go back and check Marshy's alignment to get read on Tom off that post. Also don't know why he felt like claiming that his read of the post is null now. like its a pretty basic first post so i find it weird that Lore apparently felt like he could read a lot off of it. doesn't feel genuine

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Instead of dropping a vote out of nowhere then answering this question with a low-effort response, do you mind sharing reasoning?

You said that the Marshy-comparison posts were weird, but that's all the reason I've seen. And you seemed to have Maven and I as equal in that post.

your wish is my command

though Kevin just asked me who i would kill right now, he didnt ask for reasoning so there was no need for me to go into if i didn't want to. esp since i wasn't pushing you

do you find me scummy for leaving an unexplained vote and just dropping your name w/ no explanation

also lunch break is over so back to a work call

 

[Lore]

your wish is my command

though Kevin just asked me who i would kill right now, he didnt ask for reasoning so there was no need for me to go into if i didn't want to. esp since i wasn't pushing you

do you find me scummy for leaving an unexplained vote and just dropping your name w/ no explanation

also lunch break is over so back to a work call

Thanks!

Nah it's not explicitly scummy, but it was definitely lame. I'd rather have a paper trail and reasonings put down. I'm glad that you expanded it. Replying to it now.

though to expand on this KevinM

i will say that oftentimes in early game that a bunch of town reads pop out to me / others right off the bat. This game however, has not been like that. lots of players lookin kinda grody

not a fan of Lore's reaction to Tom's post. even if he took what Tom posted seriously, i'm not sure why it would merit so much attention to him that he'd feel the need to go back and check Marshy's alignment to get read on Tom off that post. Also don't know why he felt like claiming that his read of the post is null now. like its a pretty basic first post so i find it weird that Lore apparently felt like he could read a lot off of it. doesn't feel genuine

If it helps, I'm pretty sure I brought up in that last game that I need to break my habit of auto-suspecting overly helpful early-D1 posts that talk about PRs. That's what my entire interaction with Tom's post here was about.

 

[Raxxel]

Neat, you picked up on how I left out people who defend you from the start. The "loudly abstaining" people was pointed more towards the end of the Day Phase, where some people suddenly start loudly repeating that they think the lynch is a bad idea.

I intentionally left out the defending players, in order to see if you would actually think through things or just hop on my examples. The latter would just continue my scum read on you, the former softens it.


While I still find your early play suspicious and may come back to it after some flips, for now I think I'm comfortable reading you as newbie town.

Unvote


Why does Mac seem worse than KevinM, if they both are acting similar according to your most recent post?

Mac simply has been less active in the conversation of scumhunting. However,
Unvote
I am going to wait for the scumhunting conversation to progress before casting my vote once more.

 

[Raxxel]

Wait. Actually...
Vote Z25
We've been silent about him. He spoke to me like I'm a newbie townie before I specified myself as such. It's possible he may have just come to such a conclusion based on having never seen me here, but it's also very possible he spoke to me that way with the knowledge of me being a townie.

 

[Lore]

Wait. Actually...
Vote Z25
We've been silent about him. He spoke to me like I'm a newbie townie before I specified myself as such. It's possible he may have just come to such a conclusion based on having never seen me here, but it's also very possible he spoke to me that way with the knowledge of me being a townie.

You might be going a few layers too deep here.

 

[Raxxel]

You might be going a few layers too deep here.

Possibly. Even so, vote pressuring him when he's been silent seems like a good idea to me.

 

[Rajam]

...
Hey ho hey,
that's not ****ing okay

KevinM would you agree this is scum reaction?

 

[Rajam]

Rajam- Yooo, I like your style, coming and voting like that really got me feeling some type of wayyyy. What's your general strategy on D1, how are you going to help me win this game?

Raxxel - Z25 scum
Lore - Pythag - Tom scummers

there, game solved gg wp
Now help me lynch Raxxel pretty pls
i mean why is day phase still goin

 

[Raxxel]

Raxxel - Z25 scum
Lore - Pythag - Tom scummers

there, game solved gg wp
Now help me lynch Raxxel pretty pls
i mean why is day phase still goin

Question, are reaction images allowed on this thread? I need something to express my utmost despair.

 

[KevinM]

KevinM would you agree this is scum reaction?

I initially hated his first posts but the way he’s played this game feels way too new town. He sits about 4 on my lynch list currently.

Pythag
Lore/Ruy
Raxxel.

On the chance that you’re incorrect with your current lynch pick and Raxxel flips town how would you approach the next Day phase, who looks better and who looks worse?

 

[KevinM]

Mac, I need you to read Tom for me this game. As per usual I am always going to automatically assume he’s the most town human being on the planet since I love him so dearly. How confident are you in reading Tom for me?

Speaking of Tom, would love for him to talk about these last couple pages of activity. Allowing players to get away with not making statements in these first 1-2 Day Phases with this set up is a recipe for disaster.