Joining the Battle - What Gets a Character Into Smash?

Arthur97

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#41
I've not seen anything about already represented franchises not getting DLC. Honestly sounds like a terrible decision anyway.
 

Room100

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#42
I've not seen anything about already represented franchises not getting DLC. Honestly sounds like a terrible decision anyway.
I haven't heard that either and I doubt they'd stick to that. I do feel it will primarily be third parties, but especially if we get more than one Fighter Pass we'll definitely see Nintendo characters.
 

Arthur97

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#43
I haven't heard that either and I doubt they'd stick to that. I do feel it will primarily be third parties, but especially if we get more than one Fighter Pass we'll definitely see Nintendo characters.
Even Smash 4 had several first parties. Yes, most were veterans, but, so was Snake. I'm hoping for at least two first parties. Hope being the operative word.
 

Room100

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#44
Even Smash 4 had several first parties. Yes, most were veterans, but, so was Snake. I'm hoping for at least two first parties. Hope being the operative word.
In the announced Fighter Pass, it's hard to say. We have Joker, and then if you believe speculation we'll have Erdrick or at least some kind of Square character. If you believe even crazier speculation, we get a Microsoft rep. So after that point, it's hard to say.

Who would you fill out the rest of the Fighter Pass with?
 

Arthur97

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#45
In the announced Fighter Pass, it's hard to say. We have Joker, and then if you believe speculation we'll have Erdrick or at least some kind of Square character. If you believe even crazier speculation, we get a Microsoft rep. So after that point, it's hard to say.

Who would you fill out the rest of the Fighter Pass with?
At this point, I highly question a second Square rep considering how little FF we got.

In the end, my opinions don't matter as much, but I'd actually give Bandana Dee a shot given he's from a popular franchise that still only has three fighters, he's got potential to be unique, he is requested, and gives some representation to modern Kirby.

Had Prime 4 not been pushed back, I wouldn't have ruled out a marketing fighter for it either.

And, honestly, I think it's a waste to have just made Rex a Mii costume. Yeah, Chronicles 2 came out too late to get in the base game, but that just makes them prime for DLC.

I'm also not completely opposed to third parties. I wouldn't mind Banjo if they can work something out with Microsoft. Yes, Minecraft is bigger, but Banjo has a decent amount of history both in gaming and with Nintendo. Not to mention, seems to be what the fans want.
 
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#46
I'd say impact in gaming history is also moderately subjective, looking outside of things like sales and awards. In a very similar way to popularity, if one person spent tons of time more on an old franchise than someone else, especially as a child, that game or series is going to feel WAY more impactful than maybe it truly was.

In my opinion impact on history and current popularity is one of the main balancing acts of someone getting into Smash; they (generally) need to have one or the other, but if a character was a big deal in the industry AND is still loved by the community in general, that's very impressive.
Well, not quite. R.O.B. and Mario helped resolve the 1983 video game crash. Zelda and Metroid introduced new ways of playing video games. Samus is one of the earliest and well-known female protagonists. Those have left an impact on video gaming history.
 

Room100

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#47
Well, not quite. R.O.B. and Mario helped resolve the 1983 video game crash. Zelda and Metroid introduced new ways of playing video games. Samus is one of the earliest and well-known female protagonists. Those have left an impact on video gaming history.
I agree with all of those. I think the original cast all have a ton of legacy pull. But most of the original cast is also still very prevalent in gaming outside of Smash, with the exception of Captain Falcon and Ness, and maybe even Fox. All I meant was there's characters in Smash and that people want in Smash that's sometimes overblown due to nostalgia.
 
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#48
I agree with all of those. I think the original cast all have a ton of legacy pull. But most of the original cast is also still very prevalent in gaming outside of Smash, with the exception of Captain Falcon and Ness, and maybe even Fox. All I meant was there's characters in Smash and that people want in Smash that's sometimes overblown due to nostalgia.
I'm fine with the original 12.
 

Arthur97

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#49
I agree with all of those. I think the original cast all have a ton of legacy pull. But most of the original cast is also still very prevalent in gaming outside of Smash, with the exception of Captain Falcon and Ness, and maybe even Fox. All I meant was there's characters in Smash and that people want in Smash that's sometimes overblown due to nostalgia.
Ness, Fox, Captain Falcon are probably not that well known outside of games or even inside in the cases of Ness and Falcon. Even Jigglypuff might be questionable as it was mainly picked due to being the same general shape as Kirby. To be honest, I'd question Yoshi, but he has his own relevance I suppose and being a recurring supporting Mario character certainly boosts recognizability. To be fair, Captain Falcon and Fox both debuted in games that were technically impressive I suppose.

To be clear, I want to keep all the original 12 to be sure, but as for overall importance and recognizability, I'd hardly call them all winners. Now, to some degree, they are fairly important to Nintendo history with maybe the exception of Ness and maybe Jigglypuff (Pokemon is certainly important, but outside some popularity due to the anime, Jigglypuff is nothing special).
 

Room100

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#50
Ness, Fox, Captain Falcon are probably not that well known outside of games or even inside in the cases of Ness and Falcon. Even Jigglypuff might be questionable as it was mainly picked due to being the same general shape as Kirby. To be honest, I'd question Yoshi, but he has his own relevance I suppose and being a recurring supporting Mario character certainly boosts recognizability. To be fair, Captain Falcon and Fox both debuted in games that were technically impressive I suppose.

To be clear, I want to keep all the original 12 to be sure, but as for overall importance and recognizability, I'd hardly call them all winners. Now, to some degree, they are fairly important to Nintendo history with maybe the exception of Ness and maybe Jigglypuff (Pokemon is certainly important, but outside some popularity due to the anime, Jigglypuff is nothing special).
Yeah that's about all I was trying to say. I think if we get another new Smash way down the line I'd love to see an entirely overhauled roster that reflects how views on certain franchises have changed.
 

Room100

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#52
I don't. Smash does not need a reboot. Is there really any reason to get rid of Ness, Falcon, Wolf, Sheik, or Mac? No.
Here's my thing: Ultimate is fantastic and I think about as good a summary of the franchise as it gets, especially if they add back old modes. It's already been said that "Everyone is Here" won't happen again, and I think bringing the roster back down a tad would give some more room for experimentation. Either the next game comes from Sakurai and I'd love to see him go a little crazy on it (he's gotta keep it fresh for himself too), or it's gonna be someone else and they deserve to put their spin on it.

I don't think it needs a hard reboot with like a brand new original 12 like some people say, I'm fine with the groundwork being there. Even if some characters get less and less relevant they're still important in Smash which is it's own thing at this point. By "entirely overhauled" I moreso meant new spins on movesets, and sure a couple characters not returning.
 
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Circus Baby

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#53
Cuts are inevitable in the next title. And this time, I would actually support it, but only if it meant we would get something new in return. Of course, not every character would be replaced, but even then, it'd be alright. Depending on the tradeoff anyways.

But we aren't getting a new smash for awhile. And I'm quite content with the title we have now.
 

Room100

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#54
Cuts are inevitable in the next title. And this time, I would actually support it, but only if it meant we would get something new in return. Of course, not every character would be replaced, but even then, it'd be alright. Depending on the tradeoff anyways.

But we aren't getting a new smash for awhile. And I'm quite content with the title we have now.
Agreed.

Anyway we kinda went off track here. What kinda characters do you like seeing get into Smash?
 

Circus Baby

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#55
What kinda characters do you like seeing get into Smash?
I prefer offshoot characters who aren't on everyone and their mother's wish list, like Duck Hunt. It makes their reveal more hype on their release date, assuming some rancid *** leaker didn't spoil them first.
 

Quillion

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#56
I don't think it needs a hard reboot with like a brand new original 12 like some people say, I'm fine with the groundwork being there. Even if some characters get less and less relevant they're still important in Smash which is it's own thing at this point. By "entirely overhauled" I moreso meant new spins on movesets, and sure a couple characters not returning.
I see a lot of people who want to see the movesets of the early characters rebooted, but we honestly have to ask: is this really worth it?

People will get mad if movesets become different from what they liked in the first place. How would you feel if Mario got his hammer instead of his punching?
 

Room100

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#57
I see a lot of people who want to see the movesets of the early characters rebooted, but we honestly have to ask: is this really worth it?

People will get mad if movesets become different from what they liked in the first place. How would you feel if Mario got his hammer instead of his punching?
I guess my question from that is how are people reacting to Link's BotW changes? Cuz I'm all for that kind of stuff; if Mario doesn't use the cape or the FLUDD in however many years it is til the next Smash, changing them could be cool. Or they could give characters like Ganondorf a more unique moveset
 

Quillion

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#58
I guess my question from that is how are people reacting to Link's BotW changes? Cuz I'm all for that kind of stuff; if Mario doesn't use the cape or the FLUDD in however many years it is til the next Smash, changing them could be cool. Or they could give characters like Ganondorf a more unique moveset
Thing is, I know people like BotW Link's changes, but honestly, I personally want classic adult Link back. I have far too much sentimentality to the old Link that BotW Link can't replace.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted BotW Link in the game, but he should have been an echo, or classic adult Link should have been the echo instead.
 

Room100

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#59
Thing is, I know people like BotW Link's changes, but honestly, I personally want classic adult Link back. I have far too much sentimentality to the old Link that BotW Link can't replace.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted BotW Link in the game, but he should have been an echo, or classic adult Link should have been the echo instead.
I was kinda hoping Young Link would come back and act like the classic Link while new normal Link did his own thing.
 

Quillion

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#60
I was kinda hoping Young Link would come back and act like the classic Link while new normal Link did his own thing.
Even that wouldn't be good enough. Young Link still has the Kokiri Sword, and I want to play as a heavy adult Link with a green tunic (that isn't ugly as sin), left-handedness, normal bombs, and a hookshot.
 

Arthur97

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#61
To be fair, I think they should just take what they have and keep porting it with enhancements. Modes should likely be the focus of such a port.
 

Quillion

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#64
Even if it isn't a port, it would probably help if they didn't redo the engine every. Single. Time.
They already recycled most of the assets from Smash 4; that's the thing that made the "Everyone is Here" thing possible in the first place.

And they should absolutely redo the engine. If they didn't, I seriously don't think they would be able to make Ultimate as smooth-yet-skillful as it is. I don't want to have to keep returning to Melee's stiffness for a more skill potential, nor do I want them to keep with Smash 4's severe playstyle linearity for its smoothness.
 

Arthur97

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#65
They already recycled most of the assets from Smash 4; that's the thing that made the "Everyone is Here" thing possible in the first place.

And they should absolutely redo the engine. If they didn't, I seriously don't think they would be able to make Ultimate as smooth-yet-skillful as it is. I don't want to have to keep returning to Melee's stiffness for a more skill potential, nor do I want them to keep with Smash 4's severe playstyle linearity for its smoothness.
You can refine it without redoing it entirely.
 
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