Q&A Jigglypuff Questions and Answers Thread

CHOVI

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#41
this is tough due to DI reliance, making sure you do it exactly right, and whether you jump or not between dair and rest. It would be nice to see a basic outline for those who dont understand. I usually go by 35-50 on lightweights, 45-60 on midweights, and 55-70 on heavy weights. For fastfallers you wont jump after dair, but for most charcters you do need a jump. Hope this helped a bit :D
Okay! I'll set it as answered but I was referring to like... percentages at which it true comboes on training mode. Your estimates sound good though :) Thank you Jiggly. Guess I'll just do the testing one of these days (post-patch)
 
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#42
I faced RDR7 at a recent tournament and got creamed. I have two questions.

1) Does she really have a true combo into Rest? He used an aerial (I think Fair) right into Rest at one point that killed me quick.
2) How is her matchup against Ike and Cloud? I made some bad jumping decisions and got gimped early for it.
 

Jiggly

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#43
I faced RDR7 at a recent tournament and got creamed. I have two questions.

1) Does she really have a true combo into Rest? He used an aerial (I think Fair) right into Rest at one point that killed me quick.
2) How is her matchup against Ike and Cloud? I made some bad jumping decisions and got gimped early for it.
Her main rest combos are Softspot fair to rest, and dair to rest. Dair to fair to rest is also very common.

Sword characters are interesting. Puff has to play super defensive against them and play a bait and punish playstyle. I believe that we lose to both 55:45, but rdr7 believes the cloud MU is 50:50. against sword characters, FH dair is a good option for puff bc most of their utilts/smash moves are slow, except for cloud. Nair does really well slicing through their defense though, and Dash Attack beats all options that sword users have except shield. I'm not super experienced in the Ike MU, but my man @RDR7 is ;)
 
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#44
Her main rest combos are Softspot fair to rest, and dair to rest. Dair to fair to rest is also very common.

Sword characters are interesting. Puff has to play super defensive against them and play a bait and punish playstyle. I believe that we lose to both 55:45, but rdr7 believes the cloud MU is 50:50. against sword characters, FH dair is a good option for puff bc most of their utilts/smash moves are slow, except for cloud. Nair does really well slicing through their defense though, and Dash Attack beats all options that sword users have except shield. I'm not super experienced in the Ike MU, but my man @RDR7 is ;)
Yeah Jiggs has a way with disrespecting disjoints with her insane dash attack. It's definitely something to keep in mind for next time.
 

ZeroSoul

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#45
Wow, it's been a while since anyone asked any questions. Now I feel kind of bad about that, haha.

Anyways, bit of an odd question but, if I were to put my Jiggly in the lab, what kind of things should I be testing for? I'd like to make myself useful, but I'm not exactly sure what kinds of things still need to be checked and such?

Status: Answered
 
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Kojii

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#47
Wow, it's been a while since anyone asked any questions. Now I feel kind of bad about that, haha.

Anyways, bit of an odd question but, if I were to put my Jiggly in the lab, what kind of things should I be testing for? I'd like to make myself useful, but I'm not exactly sure what kinds of things still need to be checked and such?

Status: Unanswered
I think you should lab mid % combos. Different ways to deal guaranteed damage in the 40-100% range. If you find a rest combo, that's great, but don't focus on finding them. Reverse hit fair might be a good place to start labbing.

You can also look into different kill setups, like jab -> dash attack and maybe the mythical jab -> pp utilt.

Shield pressure with pp utilt should also be looked into at some point. Vs some characters utilt pushes the opponent too far away while they shield for a second one to hit, that's when pp utilt could come in handy. Labbing vs what characters this is necessary and how it covers out of shield options could be something to do.
 

PowerPuffPlayer

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#48
Here is a question. If you could add any new hat or costume to Jiggs, what would it be?
For me it would be my current profile pic with the DJ style hat and headphones.
However, no returning costumes.

Question: UNANSWERED
 

Berserker.

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#49
What do you guys think about the Jigglypuff vs Samus match up?

Status - Answered
 
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Desu~

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#50
What do you guys think about the Jigglypuff vs Samus match up?

Status - Unanswered
I fought against a Bidou Samus this one time on For Glory and the experience was actually unpleasant.
The recent buffs makes it that Samus can definitively outspace us now. Most of her aerial moves - especially zair - can autocancel fast enough to throw out a safe move.

It was actually the first time I fought against dash dancing and wavedashing Melee-style online and, judging from the player's experience with her, I can surely say Samus is one of those character that can benefit the most from Bidou because the Bidou allows her to throw out fairly spaced ftilts and such while throwing out unexpected dash attacks (because they like to exploit their newly reduced frames on that attack). Speaking of dash attacks they might throw another dash attack right after it's last one, so that's one thing to look after I guess.

From numerous times I've either been kept at a distance close enough to get caught by her grapple or eat a projectile when Im too far from her. Also, Charge Beam cannot (obviously) be clashed with any moves so we worry about that too.

In the end I believe that if you want to have any chance of survival against Samus, you better bring those platforms on your counterpick because they can save you during your recovery. In fact, Jigglypuff players shouldn't even pick Final Destination at all.
 
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drakeirving

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#51
Also, Charge Beam cannot (obviously) be clashed with any moves so we worry about that too.
That is actually false. Our weak nair will cancel a non-full Charge Beam, and a strong nair will cancel a full Charge Beam.
That being said, you probably never want to be actually challenging a full Charge Beam, and I can't think of any positioning where doing so is a good idea unless you're a god and have reliably perfect timing. Mayyyyybe if edgeguarding offstage? Because in that scenario they can throw it out to force a dodge which gives them the opportunity to recover, whereas if you strong nair to cancel it you can continue through to hit them with the weak hit, so not only did they fail to make you dodge but you can potentially keep edgeguarding.

EDIT: Actually, I can't seem to be able to cancel the full anymore. I get the first clank and not the second. Were there changes?
 
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Green Zelda

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#55
Are there any mid/high/top tier matchups puff wins/goes even/loses slightly in? Thanks!

Status: Answered
 
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FunAtParties

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#58
Even with ZSS?! I'm not so sure about that. Jigglypuff can out manuver her, sure. But ZSS has a projectile, and kill very easily with Boost Kick. Also, her Zair.
Yeah, I don't see it either, but I've seen some people say it so it was worth mentioning. Personally I feel we lose ZSS hard, and people over state how good crouching is in that match up.

There was a matchup chart on reddit not too long ago that said our only winning match up was Falcon so I guess we can stick with that. Other than that I think dapuffster (the best Mii Brawler in the world) listed that match up as a negative for MB so I guess we can add that too.
 

KniteBlargh

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#59
Eddie The Pacifist Eddie The Pacifist ZSS can be scary because of her wide range of tools, but being able to squat below many of her hitboxes puts pressure on the player to change their playstyle, and if they can't do so appropriately, bad news for them. I still think it's wise to play the MU patiently/defensively (ZSS isn't all THAT hot against shield either, unless she gets a grab of course), and I'm definitely not claiming we have the advantage or an even chance, but it's not as much of a threat as one might think. Edge-guarding her is definitely much more of a pain than many others, but anyway.

I have a question for you all: Which moves have you found useful for 2-frame punishes? Long-lasting hitboxes from dash, fair, dair, and nair are pretty obvious, but what are some other moves that could be worthwhile depending on the circumstances involved? In my case, I've landed bair on occasion (nice KO when it happens), forward smash, and even up air, which wasn't the most useful thing in the world, but definitely confused my opponent. LOL All three have pretty strict timing (strong hitbox of forward smash)... Like, what about down smash, would that be possible? I've tried it a couple times but haven't been too successful; barely use the move as it is, though it's the cutest. x)

Status: Answered (But more input is welcome!)
 
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FunAtParties

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#60
Eddie The Pacifist Eddie The Pacifist ZSS can be scary because of her wide range of tools, but being able to squat below many of her hitboxes puts pressure on the player to change their playstyle, and if they can't do so appropriately, bad news for them. I still think it's wise to play the MU patiently/defensively (ZSS isn't all THAT hot against shield either, unless she gets a grab of course), and I'm definitely not claiming we have the advantage or an even chance, but it's not as much of a threat as one might think. Edge-guarding her is definitely much more of a pain than many others, but anyway.

I have a question for you all: Which moves have you found useful for 2-frame punishes? Long-lasting hitboxes from dash, fair, dair, and nair are pretty obvious, but what are some other moves that could be worthwhile depending on the circumstances involved? In my case, I've landed bair on occasion (nice KO when it happens), forward smash, and even up air, which wasn't the most useful thing in the world, but definitely confused my opponent. LOL All three have pretty strict timing (strong hitbox of forward smash)... Like, what about down smash, would that be possible? I've tried it a couple times but haven't been too successful; barely use the move as it is, though it's the cutest. x)

Status: Unanswered
To piggyback, I wonder if our up tilt has a scoop hitbox like Fox's? If it does, it's probably our best option.

I've foolishly attempted many two frame punishes, my go to is a rising nair, but I've hit dair, bair, fair, dtilt, dsmash, dash, an angled Ftilt, maybe even an Fsmash I don't remember. I wouldn't recommend anything other than the long lasting hitboxes though, dash attack is probably the best option out of all of them now that I think about it though.
 

KniteBlargh

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#61
FunAtParties FunAtParties Good to know for sure about down smash, even if it's not entirely a viable option. I was just browsing through the hitbox visualizations, and it's pretty clear that it would work with the right timing (I should have checked on that before).

I've also wondered about our up tilt for this purpose, but while I can't find a visualization of Fox's up tilt for comparison, looking again at the hitbox on ours, it looks like it'd probably be too high (?) to catch the 2-frame... (Credit to Furil)
That's a shame!
 
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SkippyJ

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#62
How many frames does is take for jiggly to turn around? Turn around jab, specifically, (in case throwing out a move can cancel some of the turn around animation), jab being frame 5.
 

KniteBlargh

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#64
H hoppyKnitz As I stated in my reply to your thread, I couldn't fully test all possibilities, but hopefully what I did discover is of some help to you (and lessens your agony/depression :p).

Also, don't worry if people don't reply right away. Most of us are still getting over the Evo hype; we will respond when we can think well enough to do so. LOL
 

ZeroSoul

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#65
ZEROSOUL will u help me with the Jiggly TECH PLZ ;-; JK ily dw if u don't want to but if u can help me see into it u will help me cope with my agony and depression :,)

STATUS ~ UNANSWERED

PS If anyone wants to give some input on this tech I found the threads here
http://smashboards.com/threads/unknown-jigglypuff-pound-tech.439458/
I got it to happen twice in some friendlies today but unfortunately I have no clue why it happened, think it has something to do with how you land but it seems really inconsistent and I'm not sure if it's related to it at all. I'd like to help more but I really don't know anything else about it other than it's potentially a bug, sorry for my uselessness :( .

On the plus side though I think KniteBlargh KniteBlargh 's right, I'm sure more people will eventually look into it. Honestly, I think it's a bit weird that nobody's brought this up until now, I had it happen a few times in the past but I thought I was just seeing things and didn't think much of it but you'd think someone else would notice earlier lol.
 
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Zethoro

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#68
Are Pound -> FAir -> Rest and UAir -> DAir -> Rest both true regardless of DI at some percents?

Status: Unanswered
 
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Mythzotick

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#69
It's never really optimal to use Sing lol, unless you ledge cancel it. Rule for Sing is, the higher the percent, the longer it takes the opponent to mash out.
I did not know that the effect takes longer to mash out when you're at a higher percent. In a way, it's similar to Mewtwo's disable and Bayonetta's witch time.
 
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#70
hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for


I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.
 
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#71
Are Pound -> FAir -> Rest and UAir -> DAir -> Rest both true regardless of DI at some percents?

Status: Unanswered
Though none of those combos are like true-true,
They're pretty much regarded as true. Pound fair rest can definitely be used in a tournament set, and is very useful. Up air dair rest isn't always true because up tilt is a better starter for it. It has more hitstun I think. Dair rest is true on most characters but it can be DI'd at kill percents so it isn't always the most optimal. Regardless of DI, it's still true longer than what people think but it's a big jump you'll have to make, and it will be a close call before they can airdodge or jump out that is if they DI down and away.
 
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origamiscienceguy

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#73
I have been playing with friends, and It appears that Sing will go through Super armor. (It made gannondoof fall asleep during warlock punch) I don't actually have the game, so I would love it if somebody knew if this is actually true. Does it go through other invincibility stuff too? (Like throw invincibility?)

Answered
 
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#74
I have been playing with friends, and It appears that Sing will go through Super armor. (It made gannondoof fall asleep during warlock punch) I don't actually have the game, so I would love it if somebody knew if this is actually true. Does it go through other invincibility stuff too? (Like throw invincibility?)

Unanswered
Sing goes through most armors in the game (the only armor I can think of that Sing can't go through is Kirby's Stone) so long as the other character is considered grounded. Intangibility and Invincibility aren't effected and still go through Sing.
 
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2ji

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#75
I'm looking for a list of moves that are unsafe on hit against Puff (punishable with rest) like Mario's D-air and Corrin's (charging) F-smash. Does anybody know of such a resource?
 
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