Jigglypuff 4 : Good or bad?

[Shog]

I don't like to make complicated start posts:

Basically, I checked this thread and some videos and it seems Jigglypuff is overall buffed, heck even asthetic wise.

I wonder though if the competitive, veteran Jigglypuff player, which tried it out, can tell me if Jigglypuff feels much better than Brawl or in other words, close to Melee style.
...
Finally, I know Tier discussion might be completly dumb, but I would like to know if you place it rather high, in the middle or low right now, in this fresh game.

Thanks for replies!

 

[Jigglymaster]

Right now Im going to say Middle, I don't think shes bottom anymore but I don't think she has what it takes to be top. Im hoping shes at least viable.

 

[Luigi580]

One thing's for sure, she's definitely better than in Brawl.

 

[Rayopuff]

Middle is the safest bet at this point. she definitely looks a lot stronger than in Brawl, but with characters like Shulk, Palutena and Robin having insane range they will end up giving her a hard time.

Palutena's usmash I predict will become a nightmare for most Jigglypuff mains.

 

[Desu~]

While it IS a solid point that Jiggs main problem has always been about range, Im still not that worried about that though.
Range was also a thing in Melee and she still managed to place high or whatever. So really, we'll have to wait and see.

One thing's for sure (Edit: Like Luigi580 said lol), Jiggs can definitively kill earlier. And that's a bigger improvement than how it was in Brawl.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Middle is the safest bet at this point. she definitely looks a lot stronger than in Brawl, but with characters like Shulk, Palutena and Robin having insane range they will end up giving her a hard time.

Palutena's usmash I predict will become a nightmare for most Jigglypuff mains.

I don't think those characters will give her much of a problem to be honest, they have range but their moves are really slow and telegraphed. Robin out of all those characters will give her the most trouble. I can see DHD giving her problems as well with the projectile spam, and Bowser of course, it wasn't a good matchup in Brawl, and its not a good matchup now.

She'll wreck little mac tho. Stay in the air and you win, thats it.

Back to the main topic though, none of the top players are like really gravitating towards Jiggs like they are for Bowser, DHD, Jr, and ZSS so shes probably not top, at least not right now. But at the same time shes definitely not bottom.

 

[Heavenly Spoon]

Back to the main topic though, none of the top players are like really gravitating towards Jiggs like they are for Bowser, DHD, Jr, and ZSS so shes probably not top, at least not right now. But at the same time shes definitely not bottom.

Well, apparently Leffen think she's broken.

I hope those Rest combos we've been seeing pan out. Although honestly, nerfed airdodges alone should be enough to make her better than she was in Brawl. My completely unfounded prediction is mid-to-high at this point. I'm sure exploitable characters will turn up soon enough, and it probably won't be Jiggs, but Jiggly has always had the luxury of not being affected by a lot of cheap combos, chaingrabs, etc., so here's hoping she'll at least be viable.

 

[Burruni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttOqhsI5mIE This. This is proof that she'll at LEAST be mid tier again. She's basically MeleePuff again.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The combos and all her aerials are so great, it's pretty crazy. I don't think she's top tier, but she still has a good shot at being pretty high up on the list, so I think worst case scenario she's going to be high mid tier. She's far from being bad though, which is what matters.

 

[FooltheFlames]

This is so awesome! Such great news!
I'm glad the Puff is tourney viable again ^_^

 

[Krynxe]

Jigglypuff will likely be somewhere between mid and high tier, closer to high but far from top tier. I honestly hope that she isn't broken, I don't like the idea of a bunch of people using her just because she's really good without having any love for the character, and then creating a bad name for Jigglypuff. (I feel bad for all the people who genuinely liked Meta Knight as a character before brawl) Honestly though, I am happy that I'll be able to use the character that I've wanted to from the start both in and out of tournaments, rather than being forced to use different characters to win ala brawl.

Palutena's usmash I predict will become a nightmare for most Jigglypuff mains.

I disagree. Floating above your opponent was always a poor position for Jigglypuff. It's really not much different than Pikachu's thunder in brawl, it's fairly predictable and avoidable and puff has the air mobility to deal with it.

 

[SmashTimeGo]

Well, uhh.....hi?

 

[L9999]

Jigglypuff is not bad at all. She comes with a kill move that kills at 60% in a game where is hard to kill.

Well, uhh.....hi?

Hi, how it's going?

 

[IhaveSonar]

I struggled through Brawl playing Jiggs competitively and never getting very far; in the past year I have picked up Project M and loved playing as her restored to proper glory.

Needless to say, the general mechanical improvements of the game relative to Brawl combined with Puff gaining her power back have me hyped as hell. I am just about sold on the Wii U version.

Praise Puff.

 

[ajch22]

So according to leaf marth and lucina are top for shield breaking? I recall watching a video where jigglypuff used a pound on a guarding opponent and literally left him with the shield at one hit to be broken (then just hit him again and broke it), kinda like how marth's shield breaker worked in brawl. That must be worth something on the tier list.

 

[slimjim]

So according to leaf marth and lucina are top for shield breaking? I recall watching a video where jigglypuff used a pound on a guarding opponent and literally left him with the shield at one hit to be broken (then just hit him again and broke it), kinda like how marth's shield breaker worked in brawl. That must be worth something on the tier list.

Mayhaps. What matters in smash is not individual moves, but how the flow between them maximizes your good options and minimizes theirs. For example, melee rest was good because you could combo into it and kill absurdly fast. Brawl rest was bad because it lacked setup. The viability (and therefore influence upon her place in the tier list) of pound in smash4 rests upon whether or not it has reliable setups, priority, and/or frame advantage. If pound destroys shield quickly, that's great and all, but the move is still bad if they can punish you for hitting their shield in the first place.

 

[ajch22]

http://youtu.be/_t9lQLbXzIYt9lQLbXzIY

Well that's the video, if it serves of any reference, it's around 1:38 - 1:40

It would seem that with the right spacing it is safe

 

[slimjim]

http://youtu.be/_t9lQLbXzIYt9lQLbXzIY

Well that's the video, if it serves of any reference, it's around 1:38 - 1:40

It would seem that with the right spacing it is safe

We'll see, in that example (played at 0.25x speed) another character could have punished fairly easily with something other than a grab. However, Doom didn't fall away after using it. It might be safe on other characters, but it looks punishable upon block with full shield. Might be useful for breaking damaged shields though.

 

[ajch22]

Well, with her aerial game buffed and now how many aerials cancel, it would seem that breaking a shield won't be that difficult

 

[KingofPhantoms]

She's definitely taken a big step up from how she turned out in Brawl. I don't think she'll be as high as she was in Melee, but she probably will be considerably higher up than she was in Brawl at least.

 

[san.]

You don't need to space pound if it outright breaks shields.

I think it depends on how well Jigglypuff can avoid combos. As far as her moves are concerned, she seems good to me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You don't need to space pound if it outright breaks shields.

I think it depends on how well Jigglypuff can avoid combos. As far as her moves are concerned, she seems good to me.

^pretty much that.

Throw combos are pretty limited in this game. Keeping that in mind...this character is looking kinda ridiculous. I'd wager Melee Puff is in fact an understatement.

I mean, you have the usual broken Jiggs spacing, B-air that kills people, REST COMBOS, AND you break shields in 2 hits?

WTF Namco/Nintendo...it's like they believed the people who complained Jiggs was bottom tier in Brawl...

 

[Shog]

Thank you for the replies folks!
It seems that if the factor in the poll and general opinion, that Jigglypuff would rank high mid tier (or low high tier??), which sounds pretty nice.

 

[A2ZOMG]

rofl at all the Jiggs mains claiming mid tier.

BRAWL Jigglypuff was mid tier and even had a favorable matchup against Diddy Kong.

I just...don't understand how you can believe this character isn't straight up busted. Yeah so, there's hype for Robin and ZSS so I heard. Forget them. THIS char. THIS CHARACTER. Like...jesus.

 

[slimjim]

rofl at all the Jiggs mains claiming mid tier.

BRAWL Jigglypuff was mid tier and even had a favorable matchup against Diddy Kong.

I just...don't understand how you can believe this character isn't straight up busted. Yeah so, there's hype for Robin and ZSS so I heard. Forget them. THIS char. THIS CHARACTER. Like...jesus.

BRAWL Jigglypuff was NOT mid tier. 3rd from the bottom is BOTTOM tier.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBB_tier_lists_(NTSC)

She'll have range issues in this game too, just like melee and brawl.

 

[A2ZOMG]

BRAWL Jigglypuff was NOT mid tier. 3rd from the bottom is BOTTOM tier.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBB_tier_lists_(NTSC)

She'll have range issues in this game too, just like melee and brawl.

Right, case in point. Nintendo caters to people who don't understand a char. You actually believe for whatever reason that a character with BROKEN spacing is somehow bad in Smash. Jigglypuff in Brawl was only held back by below average finishing options, but a large amount of the cast legitimately doesn't have a real answer to her air game. She beats Diddy Kong, to clarify.

Her range btw is not bad. It's average to above average on her aerials. Combine with unreactable mobility which makes your spacing broken like...the character is just stupid. A character with spacing like that shouldn't be able to kill you with aerials or break shields. That's just plainly broken.

MELEE Puff was top tier in a game where kill throw combos were a bigger issue and where she basically had 0 mixup on shield. And SSB4 Jiggs looks BETTER than that.

 

[pikazz]

Right, case in point. Nintendo caters to people who don't understand a char. You actually believe for whatever reason that a character with BROKEN spacing is somehow bad in Smash. Jigglypuff in Brawl was only held back by below average finishing options, but a large amount of the cast legitimately doesn't have a real answer to her air game. She beats Diddy Kong, to clarify.

Her range btw is not bad. It's average to above average on her aerials. Combine with unreactable mobility which makes your spacing broken like...the character is just stupid. A character with spacing like that shouldn't be able to kill you with aerials or break shields. That's just plainly broken.

MELEE Puff was top tier in a game where kill throw combos were a bigger issue and where she basically had 0 mixup on shield. And SSB4 Jiggs looks BETTER than that.

well, Puff is at 5 on the tier list (if I remember correctly), so he isnt that overpowered (like metaknight in brawl or fox in melee)
but for the looks of the SSB4, Jigglypuff looks really promesing! I just hope she ends pretty high up on the tier list

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Jigglypuff will rise to the top and become the undisputed broken character of Smash 4............maybe.

 

[ConeZ]

Jigglypuff will rise to the top and become the undisputed broken character of Smash 4............maybe.

Here's to hoping xD
IT IS PUFF'S TIME TO SHINE.

 

[Thor]

Right, case in point. Nintendo caters to people who don't understand a char. You actually believe for whatever reason that a character with BROKEN spacing is somehow bad in Smash. Jigglypuff in Brawl was only held back by below average finishing options, but a large amount of the cast legitimately doesn't have a real answer to her air game. She beats Diddy Kong, to clarify.

Her range btw is not bad. It's average to above average on her aerials. Combine with unreactable mobility which makes your spacing broken like...the character is just stupid. A character with spacing like that shouldn't be able to kill you with aerials or break shields. That's just plainly broken.

MELEE Puff was top tier in a game where kill throw combos were a bigger issue and where she basically had 0 mixup on shield. And SSB4 Jiggs looks BETTER than that.

Doesn't beat Diddy Kong in Brawl. At BEST [assuming like 100% gimping or something, which is absurd because everyone pretends Diddy Kong has Melee Falco's recovery when it's much better than that] it's +1 Diddy Kong, but that's like claiming she beats Meta Knight XD. Wario could do almost all her stuff but pretty much better and he still lost to MK rather harshly [and is even with Diddy Kong].

Puff looks much better, but she's not going to be some broken top tier here. She could be top tier but she won't be better than everyone else by some wide margin, and I sincerely doubt she'll even be number 1. I agree with Shaya's assessment that Puff will be mid-tier.

Also Jigglypuff better not shield much against Marth/Lucina - get hit by one neutral+b and bye-bye (unless that was changed...).

 

[ConeZ]

Doesn't beat Diddy Kong in Brawl. At BEST [assuming like 100% gimping or something, which is absurd because everyone pretends Diddy Kong has Melee Falco's recovery when it's much better than that] it's +1 Diddy Kong, but that's like claiming she beats Meta Knight XD. Wario could do almost all her stuff but pretty much better and he still lost to MK rather harshly [and is even with Diddy Kong].

Puff looks much better, but she's not going to be some broken top tier here. She could be top tier but she won't be better than everyone else by some wide margin, and I sincerely doubt she'll even be number 1. I agree with Shaya's assessment that Puff will be mid-tier.

Also Jigglypuff better not shield much against Marth/Lucina - get hit by one neutral+b and bye-bye (unless that was changed...).

Honestly, from what I have seen from streamers, evaluations, and whatnot, most characters have struggles getting kills before 100% in this game and Jigglypuff has the ability to get kills by around 60% with Rest give or take depending on the character.

That alone throws her into the mix of PROBABLE high tiers. If players can figure out ways to excel at her gimping/spacing playstyle while also implementing the incredible kill power of Rest, then I do not think it is so out of the question that she could hit top tier again, and I even feel like we should almost expect her to be top tier at this point, especially given the right hands.
That said, it is all up to speculation at this point, and I am saying that according to what I have seen, I'd say she looks pretty strong imo.

 

[Thor]

Honestly, from what I have seen from streamers, evaluations, and whatnot, most characters have struggles getting kills before 100% in this game and Jigglypuff has the ability to get kills by around 60% with Rest give or take depending on the character.

That alone throws her into the mix of PROBABLE high tiers. If players can figure out ways to excel at her gimping/spacing playstyle while also implementing the incredible kill power of Rest, then I do not think it is so out of the question that she could hit top tier again, and I even feel like we should almost expect her to be top tier at this point, especially given the right hands.
That said, it is all up to speculation at this point, and I am saying that according to what I have seen, I'd say she looks pretty strong imo.

Everyone except Mega Man and Ganondorf look strong at this point and I've seen a really solid MegaMan at this point.

Everyone thought ROB and Dedede were strong top-tiers when Brawl came out, and some said Snake > MK[tournament where all top 5 placings were Snake mains], and Sheik bans were at one point debated in Melee's history. Those things were all proven to be erroneous, so I'm not getting my hopes up as of now.

Jigglypuff could go the way of Zelda in Brawl (mid-tier to bottom), but given that this game functions in some ways similarly to other games, and has no obvious nerfs, I am willing to state I don't think she'll be bottom tier.

I'm not getting my hopes up for any character though - if someone pressed me to say what a top tier looked like at this point, I'd have no real answers except arguably Bowser and ZSS, and those are both due to obvious buffs and high-level players using them well...

tl;dr - pardon my skepticism, but I look to Brawl's whacky tier list history [and Melee Falcon's] and then I try not to get my hopes up too high if Jiggs ends up bottom tier again [that would suck].

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doesn't beat Diddy Kong in Brawl. At BEST [assuming like 100% gimping or something, which is absurd because everyone pretends Diddy Kong has Melee Falco's recovery when it's much better than that] it's +1 Diddy Kong, but that's like claiming she beats Meta Knight XD. Wario could do almost all her stuff but pretty much better and he still lost to MK rather harshly [and is even with Diddy Kong].

Jigglypuff's air spacing is better than Wario's, and her mechanics are FAR superior against Diddy's Banana game, giving her control of the matchup. Not only does she use Bananas better than Diddy with multiple jumps and dribbling techniques, her primary weakness of unreliable KO options (which is the MAIN thing Wario has over her) is removed in that matchup when a confirmed Banana combo sets up into Rest or Smashes, which are stronger than Diddy's KO moves.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I think Puff will be high tier, at least initially. She might get dethroned after people find out how to counter her but I doubt she'll ever see bottom-tier again, considering the effective tactics she seems to have in this game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Jigglypuff will rise to the top and become the undisputed broken character of Smash 4............maybe.

NONONONONONONONO. Trust me, as someone who looked forward to main Meta Knight the minute he was announced for Brawl, you DO NOT desire to main a character that's broken, you get so much **** for it and your character will barely be remembered for anything else. I always feel most comfortable when my characters are simply high tier, because at that point I can show that I actually like the character while still being good at it.

 

[Mr.Random]

^pretty much that.

Throw combos are pretty limited in this game. Keeping that in mind...this character is looking kinda ridiculous. I'd wager Melee Puff is in fact an understatement.

I mean, you have the usual broken Jiggs spacing, B-air that kills people, REST COMBOS, AND you break shields in 2 hits?

WTF Namco/Nintendo...it's like they believed the people who complained Jiggs was bottom tier in Brawl...

She was lol. Worse then ganon imo

 

[ConeZ]

She was lol. Worse then ganon imo

She still IS pretty bad in Brawl xD
Always will be too. xD

 

[A2ZOMG]

She was lol. Worse then ganon imo

She beats Diddy Kong by having a better banana game than him. She also beats Ganondorf 8/2. Furthermore one thing that nobody ever exploited with her is the fact that Jigglypuff is one of the only characters in the game who can literally be completely invincible to character movesets when landing on the ground due to her retardedly small hitbox during hard landing that she can shield immediately after.

How the **** does that make her bottom tier? It doesn't. Jiggs in Brawl is a solid mid tier character that nobody played in tournament. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be a bad character in Smash when you have INSANE capacity for safe aerial spacing. Now if anyone is worse than Ganondorf, that would be Bowser, who has the worst recovery in the game that isn't Ivysaur's and completely can't win on any stage that isn't Battlefield or Smashville, not to mention he's so huge that Ganondorf's primary weakness of not having viable spacing tools is removed in that matchup, meaning Ganon actually wins it.

At any rate, buffing Jiggs was only going to make her high tier when she was already relatively solid by design. Add the fact not only did she get back reliable KO options she had in melee, she has MORE options for offensive pressure, and enemies have FEWER options to combo her (throw combos are universally much more limited), she could arguably be THE strongest character in the game.

 

[Kamikam70]

So, finally, the adorable bubble-gum Pokémon won't be the last on tier lists anymore (sincre Brawl only) ? Great. I'm glad for her, she deserved this buff.

HAIL JIGGLYBUFF

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Puff is a female. Why do people keep calling her a "he?" That's like me calling lucario a she