Jena 6

[Eor]

I'll give you that slavery was a SLIGHT issue for the Civil War, but not the kicker. For the most part, Lincoln didn't give a **** about slaves, he just wanted to unite the country again and not be known as the president who broke it up. The Civil War essentially started because the South seceded, the North (and tyrannical Lincoln) decided "**** that" and started taxing them heavily for imports and exports and basically crippling their economy. The South was basically strong armed into the fight. By the end of the War, most of the slaves were willingly fighting on the side of the South.

I'm sorry, but thats such a biased view that it hurts my head. You're acting like everyone was fine and happy until "the evil Lincoln" popped up and forced them to secede, then fought them about it. Saying Slavery was a slight issue isn't delving deep enough, it was the underlying reason for most of the other reasons.

 

[Mr.Lombardi34]

As someone with no side yet, I think that arkengate being banned is absolute bull.

Crimson King:

-Debated his side of the argument
-Used vulgar when he thought neccesary
-Is a moderator

Arkengate

-Debated his side of the argument
-Used vulgar when he thought neccesary
-Is not a moderator

Now, which gets banned? The one that is NOT A MODERATOR!

 

[Crimson King]

nO, CRIMSON, THATS ****ED UP
This is arkengate
I want to know WHY THE **** I GOT BANNED.
I never once used deroggitory racism words...
That is ****ing bull**** that when i disagree, and put honest effort into a debate AND evidence to back up my claim, im deemed a racist THEN tagged beyond that by everyone. Not only am i deemed a racist, but if i use the same words back, i get banned. Thats ****ing ********.

This is an injustice. I want answers. Whos the highest person on these boards and how can i have a word with them?

Reverse discrimination imo.

I have no problem with your argument at all. Believe what you want really. You got banned for gaining warning points by breaking the rules. Mod disrespect is 3 points, and you blatantly bashed Matt for having an opinion.

Your last post was a one-line post with plenty expletives and just plain bashing me. You can use this as a time to cool the **** down.

 

[pikachun00b7]

As someone with no side yet, I think that arkengate being banned is absolute bull.

Crimson King:

-Debated his side of the argument
-Used vulgar when he thought neccesary
-Is a moderator

Arkengate

-Debated his side of the argument
-Used vulgar when he thought neccesary
-Is not a moderator

Now, which gets banned? The one that is NOT A MODERATOR!

And that's the wonderful part!
*Waits for CK to edit this post*

@CK- I think both of you have been flaming each other with baseless arguments.

 

[Chill]

I don't think Arkengate is rascist. I think he's just extremely uniformed. To say that someone is complaining just because the're black is just as bad as someone who is complaining just because the're black. CK has already shown that what was done in this case was illegal. If you're defending the actions taken you're not paying attention.

As someone with no side yet, I think that arkengate being banned is absolute bull.

Crimson King:

-Debated his side of the argument
-Used vulgar when he thought neccesary
-Is a moderator

Arkengate

-Debated his side of the argument
-Used vulgar when he thought neccesary
-Is not a moderator

Now, which gets banned? The one that is NOT A MODERATOR!

Both used swear words but only one directed them at the other person. The one who did was banned.

 

[brawlpro]

I don't think Arkengate is rascist. I think he's just extremely uniformed. To say that someone is complaining just because the're black is just as bad as someone who is complaining just because the're black.

wait what? Was the last word supposed to be "white"?

Both used swear words but only one directed them at the other person. The one who did was banned.

better point than mr. lombardi!

 

[SiD]

I'll give you that slavery was a SLIGHT issue for the Civil War, but not the kicker. For the most part, Lincoln didn't give a **** about slaves, he just wanted to unite the country again and not be known as the president who broke it up. The Civil War essentially started because the South seceded, the North (and tyrannical Lincoln) decided "**** that" and started taxing them heavily for imports and exports and basically crippling their economy. The South was basically strong armed into the fight. By the end of the War, most of the slaves were willingly fighting on the side of the South.

That's not entirely true, and most of the slaves were not willingly fighting for the South. Sounds like a "Gone With the Wind" mentality to me.


About the issue, what started the fight in the first place? Did the 6 just jump the one guy? Either way, I think that being 16 you know what you are doing when you attack someone. So while the charges are obviously too harsh, trying them as adults is something I don't have a problem with.

 

[Chill]

wait what? Was the last word supposed to be "white"?

No.

About the issue, what started the fight in the first place? Did the 6 just jump the one guy? Either way, I think that being 16 you know what you are doing when you attack someone. So while the charges are obviously too harsh, trying them as adults is something I don't have a problem with.

You shouldn't be tried as a adult if you are not a adult.

If you don't know what started the fight you need to go back and read the first post. Better yet, read the case story.

 

[SiD]

You shouldn't be tried as a adult if you are not a adult.

In my opinion, being an adult has nothing to do with age. I was 16 only two years ago, If I had attacked someone I would know well and good what I was doing, just as an adult would.


And yeah, the people who put up the nooses obviously should have been expelled. But that does not excuse others beating them, I could understand a fight but 6 guys attacking one guy isn't right no matter the reasoning.

 

[Crimson King]

In my opinion, being an adult has nothing to do with age. I was 16 only two years ago, If I had attacked someone I would know well and good what I was doing, just as an adult would.


And yeah, the people who put up the nooses obviously should have been expelled. But that does not excuse others beating them, I could understand a fight but 6 guys attacking one guy isn't right no matter the reasoning.

The fight was part a series of racial violence. Some claim they white boy in question actually was part of an altercation (someone used the exact instance). In law they were very wrong. But in the context of the actual situation, I could almost agree with the violent act.

Being an adult has EVERYTHING to do with age in the legal sense. You can't decide person by person case if someone is an adult or not just because it's different for you. Some people I know at 18 are still not really adults.

 

[SiD]

I know it has to do with age in a legal sense, but I don't think that's right. I think the legal age should be lowered to 16 or 17 honestly, because you can think just the same at that age as you can at 18 for almost all people, and you cannot tell me that a 16 year old doesn't know that attacking someone is wrong. Again, a fight is one thing, but jumping someone 6 on 1 is not something I can ever agree with in this situation.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I can't believe this is true, nothing like this happens over here.

If you hang nooses off a tree as a clear threat, you'd be expelled. Maybe even charged. Simple.

If you're an adult, and punch someone in the face, you'll be tried for assault. Simple. (But if they were the people who hung the noose from the tree, then your charge might be more lenient)

If someone points a shotgun in your face, and you wrestle it off them, you'll be hailed as brave, and will probably get a little story about your deeds in the newspaper aswell.

We don't really have big rallies over here. (Our laws are different, e.g. Scientology is big and is classified as a religion in America, but not in the UK)

It doesn't matter what race, sex or colour you are. You'll be treated the same.


Oh and,

Black Power and White Power are NOT the same. White Power means control over all other races, Black Power means equality.

And Arkengate was clearly racist. He was banned for a good reason, it has nothing to do with being a moderator, it's all about respecting others.

 

[Chill]

And yeah, the people who put up the nooses obviously should have been expelled. But that does not excuse others beating them, I could understand a fight but 6 guys attacking one guy isn't right no matter the reasoning.

I absolutely agree. I do not think they are in anyway justified in ganging up on some kid. The issue is the punishment that followed and the lack of punishment faced by other students.

 

[SiD]

I absolutely agree. I do not think they are in anyway justified in ganging up on some kid. The issue is the punishment that followed and the lack of punishment faced by other students.

Yeah, and those issues are pretty bull ****. I've honestly been suprised and really depressed. I live in California, but even some people I know, some of them friends, are racist *******s. One of my friends got a tatoo of the confederate flag, which he stubbornlly calls the "rebel flag". I haven't seen nor do I expect him to actually do anything racist, but just knowing he thinks he has a right to judge based on something so stupid truly sickens me.

 

[KevinM]

See people like Arkengate are the reasons that I like the debate hall so much better haha. Not trying to sound condescending to any of the people here with intelligence.

As for my two cents, i think its a blatant racial issue and needs to be solved now!

Eric have their been any other reports of such occurrences within southern Louisiana.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Black Power and White Power are NOT the same. White Power means control over all other races, Black Power means equality.

That is hypocritical nonsense. Dressing "Black Power" up as if it is fighting some oppression is bull. As long as one puts their skin color as a means of pride, it is still racism just made to appear different.

 

[SiD]

That is hypocritical nonsense. Dressing "Black Power" up as if it is fighting some oppression is bull. As long as one puts their skin color as a means of pride, it is still racism just made to appear different.

I don't think that's what they mean. If black people have a gathering, it is usually a civil rights rally. White power gatherings, on the other hand, are inherently racist.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

I don't think that's what they mean. If black people have a gathering, it is usually a civil rights rally. White power gatherings, on the other hand, are inherently racist.

Then they need to say it is something else because both imply the same thing, power of one's culture/skin color.

 

[SiD]

Then they need to say it is something else because both imply the same thing, power of one's culture/skin color.

Or you could just think about it for a second instead of dwelling on semantics.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I don't think that's what they mean. If black people have a gathering, it is usually a civil rights rally. White power gatherings, on the other hand, are inherently racist.

Thanks SiD,

You just worded it better than I did, that's exactly what I meant though.

 

[Crimson King]

See people like Arkengate are the reasons that I like the debate hall so much better haha. Not trying to sound condescending to any of the people here with intelligence.

As for my two cents, i think its a blatant racial issue and needs to be solved now!

Eric have their been any other reports of such occurrences within southern Louisiana.

Here's the white supremacy response:
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/09/20/jena-rally-sparks-white-supremacist-rage/

Also, Misto, I think the reason of white people gatherings being racist is white people have a majority and have no need to fight intolerance. Promotion of the white race over any other means eradication of a minority, which if all white people did would be possible.

But I agree, Black Pride is a form of racism, but really Black pride and Gay pride don't involve lynchings and draggings like White Pride does.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Or you could just think about it for a second instead of dwelling on semantics.

That's right, let's all ignore the way the word is nearly identical and forget that black people can just as easily be racist toward other races. Semantics or not, you're still associating pride over something that is completely random, which is your circumstance of birth. I also noticed you said usually are civil rights rallies. Why do civil rights have to be just about black people, or white? The point of civil rights is to protect everyone, not give exclusivity to one group because some people from a group that used to be our ancestors screwed over another race's group of their ancestors. It is still racism to show favoritism toward some not based on their merit or special needs. Being black is not special, neither is being white, or Hispanic, or Norwegian, etc.

Also, Misto, I think the reason of white people gatherings being racist is white people have a majority and have no need to fight intolerance. Promotion of the white race over any other means eradication of a minority, which if all white people did would be possible.

But I agree, Black Pride is a form of racism, but really Black pride and Gay pride don't involve lynchings and draggings like White Pride does.

Oh I don't doubt it, in fact I agree White Power is racist, but I also think Black Power is as well. Though white people being a majority has changed in America these days and I see them becoming a minority with reverse racism.

 

[SiD]

That's right, let's all ignore the way the word is nearly identical and forget that black people can just as easily be racist toward other races. Semantics or not, you're still associating pride over something that is completely random, which is your circumstance of birth. I also noticed you said usually are civil rights rallies. Why do civil rights have to be just about black people, or white? The point of civil rights is to protect everyone, not give exclusivity to one group because some people from a group that used to be our ancestors screwed over another race's group of their ancestors. It is still racism to show favoritism toward some not based on their merit or special needs. Being black is not special, neither is being white, or Hispanic, or Norwegian, etc.

That's not at all what I said, if you really think blacks have equal rights in the south you're crazy. So yeah, having a civil rights rally makes a **** lot of sense. Call it something else if it helps, but the fact is they are treated worse than white people in a lot of places. Of course any race can be racist, but that was not at all what I was talking about. I was merely elaborating on what Pluvia said, and you got all butt hurt because of the way it was phrased.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

That's not at all what I said, if you really think blacks have equal rights in the south you're crazy. So yeah, having a civil rights rally makes a **** lot of sense. Call it something else if it helps, but the fact is they are treated worse than white people in a lot of places. Of course any race can be racist, but that was not at all what I was talking about. I was merely elaborating on what Pluvia said, and you got all butt hurt because of the way it was phrased.

No it is just annoying for a group of people to say they are being discriminated against and then a section of that group turns around and does the same thing; making a group of pride based solely on their race.

Heh, you said butt hurt.

 

[SiD]

No it is just annoying for a group of people to say they are being discriminated against and then a section of that group turns around and does the same thing; making a group of pride based solely on their race.

Heh, you said butt hurt.

But every race does that, so I don't see you're point.


Anyway, you know what I think would be a step in the right direction? For all governmental institutions and businesses to not be allowed to acknoledge race. Like how now they always ask you but say it's optional, I think it shouldn't be there at all. Cause really, we're all part of the human race. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[brawlpro]

the government sux for that fact.

 

[Matador]

But every race does that, so I don't see you're point.


Anyway, you know what I think would be a step in the right direction? For all governmental institutions and businesses to not be allowed to acknoledge race. Like how now they always ask you but say it's optional, I think it shouldn't be there at all. Cause really, we're all part of the human race. Everything else is irrelevant.

I agree with you SiD, but covering your eyes to ignore race doesn't do much of anything. I'm willing to admit that I'm racist in a matter of speaking. Different races do different things and act different ways, there's no denying that. The challenge is realizing that supremacy of one race over another is non-existent. We're all different, but deserve the same respect and rights.

 

[SiD]

I agree with you SiD, but covering your eyes to ignore race doesn't do much of anything. I'm willing to admit that I'm racist in a matter of speaking. Different races do different things and act different ways, there's no denying that. The challenge is realizing that supremacy of one race over another is non-existent. We're all different, but deserve the same respect and rights.

But that's generalizing, not all people of one race act the same way. People accuse white guys of being "wiggers" and black guys (including presidential candidate Baraq Obama or whatever) of "acting white". So therefore, I can deny it. Race does not effect anything, thinking that it should is what causes stereotypes to be true.

 

[Matador]

But that's generalizing, not all people of one race act the same way. People accuse white guys of being "wiggers" and black guys (including presidential candidate Baraq Obama or whatever) of "acting white". So therefore, I can deny it. Race does not effect anything, thinking that it should is what causes stereotypes to be true.

You're right, not all people of one race act the same way, but you can't deny that many people of the same race act similar to each other.

Take music for example. The typical black teenager listens to rap/hiphop/R&B, while few choose different. The typical white teenager listens to a branch of rock music, and some others find an alternative. This isn't determined by the pigment of our skin, but our similar upbringings and environment.

These little things make us different but we're all the same at the core, which is why we all deserve the same respect and rights.

 

[SiD]

Can't argue anything you said there, gg.

 

[Frozenserpent]

I agree with you SiD, but covering your eyes to ignore race doesn't do much of anything. I'm willing to admit that I'm racist in a matter of speaking. Different races do different things and act different ways, there's no denying that. The challenge is realizing that supremacy of one race over another is non-existent. We're all different, but deserve the same respect and rights.

Having the government not acknowledge race is a major factor doesn't mean for everyone to ignore racism. Civil rights groups can still work to aid minorities, etc. The government simply needs to have an objective way to enforce rules and justice. This would mean race should not be a significant consideration in either way. Social equality can instead be taken up by non-goverment organizations.

The backlash to traditional racism, while certainly not as serious, should be avoided. The "race matters" mentality should be eliminated, and the only way to do so would be to ignore that factor in government. Admittedly, it would probably take a great amount of time before this mentality can be eliminated from society.

That said, this is an infuriating thing to read. Such injustice.

 

[adrian Blk]

all this because someone decided to sit under a tree? lol?

 

[Matador]

Having the government not acknowledge race is a major factor doesn't mean for everyone to ignore racism. Civil rights groups can still work to aid minorities, etc. The government simply needs to have an objective way to enforce rules and justice. This would mean race should not be a significant consideration in either way. Social equality can instead be taken up by non-goverment organizations.

The backlash to traditional racism, while certainly not as serious, should be avoided. The "race matters" mentality should be eliminated, and the only way to do so would be to ignore that factor in government. Admittedly, it would probably take a great amount of time before this mentality can be eliminated from society.

That said, this is an infuriating thing to read. Such injustice.

I agree, race shouldn't be included in the justice system or in the Government as a determining factor for anything. I never said that it should be.

 

[Crimson King]

all this because someone decided to sit under a tree? lol?

It's like when someone wanted to sit on a bus because she was tired. **** like this starts over the most assinine reasons. If they had just let them sit under the tree, it'd be over.

 

[Johnknight1]

woaw, just woaw. That's bad, but the earlier posts of this thread were often blow out of proportion.

That aside, I completely agree with you [SiD and Matador]. Racism is sitll bad, and it will never 100% go away. There are still Nazis, Neo-Nazis, and Neo-Neo-Nazis, and the KKK. There always will be until something worse comes along. The important thing is to not give any of their members any power, and to limit these things. Racism, hatred, etc. aren't like many things that go away after a while, and seldom, if even at all come back. They are sadly here to stay, but thankfully in the United States that have become very limited over the past 40 years. We went from a nation with major racism, to a nation to where racists can't even get a job [my kinda nation]. It's not gonna die, but we can keep sure strangle the hell out of it the longer and better we hate on racism and racists.

 

[IC3R]

This thread is insane, dudes...I don't think I've ever seen this much debate on this kind of topic since the 10th grade. Sad, really...I like how everyone is voicing their opinions and, if applicable, beliefs. I also think its funny seeing a guy get banned and return under another name, only to be banned again...
--------------------------------------
Anyway...

I hope no one verbally smites me for this, but here comes IC3R--

Drawing from the foreign lingual roots, -ism is:
"used as a productive suffix in the formation of nouns denoting
action or practice (criticism),
state or condition (barbarianism),
principles (Darwinism),
doctrines (despotism),
a usage or characteristic (plagarism),
devotion or adherence (realism; witticism; intellectualism), etc."

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/-ism) <--Not a link?
I made racism applicable to the underlined definitions.
You are welcome to look up any of the words like principle and doctrine that have certain applicable meanings as well...
--------------------------------------
I like to put some things simply, by saying -ism pretty much indicates a regular practicing of beliefs.

So, if you make it a regular habit to despise racism, are you racist against racists, thus, turning yourself into a racist? Self-hatred is one of the leading causes of suicide; Combining the number of all anti-racism practitioners at once, the following result could be seen as a mass self-inflincted genocide of "anti-racists," who are racist against themselves. That would be a horrible end to humanity, don't you think?

Or are you just entirely against racism, which is a regularly practiced belief by a vast number of individuals? Racism, by that suffixial root, is treated like religion, no? It would be no different hating Islam, Christianity, or to an extreme, Satanism. They are all religions (or lifestyles, to be more accurate) practiced by certain individuals.

So you either hate the practice, or the practitioner...not much of a choice...
---------------------------------------
Then again, it may not be hate, but an extreme disapproval. Most everyone in the past and present had and has a certain belief system. Every belief system usually implied a statement: "This is right. Everything else is wrong." I cannot think of an individual on this God-green Earth who doesn't think he or she is right 99.9% of the time. From the days of childhood to the ages of adulthood, we tend to dislike anyone who doesn't share our beliefs. Because of this, we form stereotypical groups and labels of any and all ranges, that we often come to dislike or despise...

Examples (excluding any special cases): Preps and goths tend not to get along, as well as rockers and rappers, jocks and geeks, blondes and books (lol).

For some reason, teens are beginning to break the mold. I'm not sure if it's the spirit of America (doubt it -.-), or our simple decision to be open and accepting to other people and their beliefs and opinions, but now students of supposedly opposing beliefs are getting along fine, even after events that put each of them at ends, recent or ancient. {Although Christains and Satanists still have some work to do (O.o)' }
---------------------------------------
I personally was taught to hate the sin, but love the sinner. Forgive and forget what wrong they've done, but love and respect them as people. Although this is a task only achievable by few, everyone should try to be that few; it many transform into many...

The point is: We are the future; if we want racism to stop completely, we have to do something about it (besides ***** and moan and gripe)...Waiting for things to gradually get better isn't going to work, it was the one of the reasons the Constitution of the United States was even signed by a lot of the states. After the signing of the Constitution, the North was hoping that the South would eventually have no need for slaves, and let them go. But that was not to be. If you want to learn more or verify some information, go to college classes like American History and Political Science, or just check with your local history teacher. We need to actually get up off our lazy butts and do something...But I suggest not causing another World War--I'm still arguing with myself on the "ends justifies the means" doctrine. It's so situational...
---------------------------------------
So yeah, there's my seventy-something cents...have at it...

 

[SiD]

You can't be racist against racists, as being racist isn't a race. It's something they do by choice, it's harmful/hurtful to other people purposefully, so therefore gives me every reason to hate them.

 

[IC3R]

You can't be racist against racists, as being racist isn't a race. It's something they do by choice, it's harmful/hurtful to other people purposefully, so therefore gives me every reason to hate them.

Why not? You can hate haters...

Racism isn't exactly limited to just race. Look it up, and you should find that it includes those united by common history or cultural traits, or simply any group or class such as journalists. The KKK, while an anti-non-white socialist group, still count as a race all their own. Remember W.A.S.P.? Those were the four "traits" that all the members had to share in order to be part of that particular group. They all shared the same hatred for others.

It is no different than using the term "black" is often used to describe the genetic trait some level of African descent; or "white" to describe anyone of European descent...

While it is true that it is often the racists' full-minded choice to do harm to another, hating them may actually being hurting them, as well. Most people here are thinking on a physical level, I'm also thinking on a mental and psychological level, too. They may possibly hate others because others hate them. I neither condone nor defend their actions, but try to look through their eyes. At what they could be feeling; they could be hurting on the inside...

If we went around hurting everyone that hurt us, we would be no better...
-----------------------------------------
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
EDIT: -Ghandi
-----------------------------------------
While I dislike no group in particular, no matter how I feel about it, I allow them to express themselves in their own special ways. I am a rocker, and typically do not care for rap/hip-hop or whatever the proper term is; I don't lash out and curse at their own unique expressions. It would be like taking my hands from me, or bruising them beyond healing--I would unable to draw, which is the single most important physical action for me. I would lose the most powerful and favorite form of expression I possess...

I have only felt pure hatred once, for a particular person. He did me wrong...so wrong, that my hand vengefully pulsed at the mere mention of his name. He took something more important than my hands away from me, and treated me like doo in the dirt: he smooshed me down until I could no longer be in his way. I believe I was a threat to him and what he wanted, yet I did not pose myself as one...

Humans are naturally selfish, greedy creatures; they will almost stop at nothing to have what they desire...Hating instinct is absolutely pointless, in my opinion...
---------------------------------------
Point is: Hatred will make you feel heavy on either end; whether with fear, anger, or sorrow, it is all the same weightiness. Forgiveness, not ignorance, was what helped me let go of my hate for that person. While I am still trying to completely forget what he has done unto me, I will do everything in mine and God's power to never retaliate in suit.

Vengeful retaliation may actually be the reason racists hate and hurt. Somehow, they feel wronged. It was up to them to decide what that wrong was, imaginary or real, and so it is for them to decide to let that hate go...
---------------------------------------
And so unfortunately, hatred for haters is completely hypocritical, and completely unnecessary...



Your turn...

 

[SiD]

I disagree. They can't hate because they're hated, because they are hated because they hate. It's backwards from what you said. Anyone that hates someone based on something they can't control does not deserve respect or really any decency at all, they deserve to be hated. And I don't know if you're gonna try to tell me "maybe they can't control it", but that's bull ****, of course they can. Being black, you're born that way. Being gay, I believe you can't control that either. But hating someone because they are a certain race or because of their sexual orientation or anything else I've forgotten, is something they choose to do because they are stupid. They are less than human to treat others that way and they deserve what they preach about others. I'd rather be blind in a more just world than be able to see all this indecency and do nothing, fell nothing about it.

I do however respect your views, and I see the value in them as well. I just happen to disagree.

 

[IC3R]

*sigh*

Very well, you are entitled to your own ways and opinions...

And I thank you for respecting my views as I have yours, no matter how much we disagree...

I only hope that you grasp the entirety of my words, otherwise I have failed you and myself in fluently communicating my truer intentions...