Japanese Tier List

[Honor]

Hey everyone, don't know how many people took the time to look at the new tier list from Japan. I was surprised to see Marth ranked very close to the bottom (high 40's) and I was curious what people's thoughts on this were.

I haven't seen any competitive Marth play from Japan but I feel that I almost have to assume that almost nobody plays Marth there.

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[pershona]

I honestly agree with it, Marth has terrible lag on moves, not many good followups from throws, pretty mediocre recovery and mediocre range. Only thing he really has going for him is early killing power with tippers.

 

[Honor]

I disagree. I think that Marth is very mobile and has a pretty solid aerial game, his range is average not poor, his tipper brings a very heavy wild card to the match, his counter is another wild card (not as heavy as the tipper but counters are OP in Smash 4).

Basically, it seems to me that your play as Marth comes down to your spacing and your reads. Hence my opinion that he is mid tier.

 

[pershona]

I wouldn't call his aerial game solid, UAir is a meh juggling move, Bair is okay for edgeguarding and Fair is okay for spacing. Counter is like useless in high level play.
He is kinda mobile but majority of his stuff is still laggy and easily punished.

Yes he has good spacing but a lot of characters can easily camp him easy and he doesn't have any real answers for good camping.

And his overall matchups just seem poor while still having a few good ones, its not good enough to make him mid tier.

 

[LoreLes]

If anything, Marth isn't mobile. That aerial mobility is garbage and the stuff he does on the ground shouldn't be "mobile" it should be well spaced pacing. His aerial game to me is good though.

 

[Quickhero]

The problem with the Japanese tier lists for Smash 4 in general are the fact that they put way too many categories in a team that has a cast where most characters are viable even without customs.

Ignoring the fact that they're referring to a default meta, they put so many characters in D and E rank when there is nobody bad enough *(MAYBE the Miis since Default, Zelda, and I would understand if the Japanese put Lucina in D) to put around half the cast there. C+ C and C- would've been much more optimal for them imo.

Marth even without customs isn't bottom tier, he still gets decent rewards without customs but his combo and trap game is much worse and he doesn't get as much reward as top tiers like Diddy and ZSS do for hitting something but he has enough options to make him reasonably viable vs default.

They still are easier than Marth and get generally more rewards than Marth will for landing an aerial, but Marth with customs has a much better trap game and actually has a good grab combo, making him a much better character overall with custom moves on.

 

[cerealkiller]

In my experience in For Glory, I'd say that Marth is not low tier at all but then again...1- tier list is not based on player skills but character stats and 2- I only play regularly with 3-4 characters so I can't compare.

 

[Honor]

In my exp people also play slightly differently when they play online than they do in person. Even in 1 on 1.

 

[cerealkiller]

If you think about it, to build or suggest an accurate tier list (not one based on votes) one would have to play with and know well all characters, their movesets, sub-skills, tactics, etc. That's easy in Smash64 but with all these characters... Truly how many people can claim that? Interesting.
So, how are(were) non-vote tier list build and published?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth is not good.

There are worse characters.

But he is not good.

 

[ElevenOnze]

Play with marth on Smash4 makes me sad.

Like you sad, Marth is not good, but there are worse characters

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think he's that bad, and I'm not saying this out of bias because he's one of my mains.
Sure I don't think he's the best in the game and I admit that he has flaws but I disagree with him being at the bottom.
There are worse characters than Marth/Lucina.

 

[MitoRequiem]

Marth is not good.

There are worse characters.

But he is not good.

Not like I disagree, Cause I think Marth is pretty bootybutt in Smash4 and it makes me sad lol, but I haven't been playing much Smash4 at all so haven't been watching the game evolve who is considered worse than Marth?

 

[Honor]

It seems like a big part of the tier list is about how the character does against the S and A tier characters. In Smash 4 Marth does seem to get rolled pretty hard by Shiek and Diddy especially. That probably has a lot to do with where he is placed.

Not trying to deny Emblem Lord's point but I too am curious where Marth properly falls. As Requiem said, it's probably too soon to tell.

 

[Kibzu~]

Marth is anything else but mobile :/ Thats what makes him bad in this game. If you look at all the top tier characters; they are all mobile. Marth is too laggy in the air. His fair cant be used as an approach anymore and is best used while moving backwards. Bair feels laggy aswell but works for edge guarding. His nair is good imo for me but i just like the pressure use of it. He's mainly stuck on the ground and with his slow tilts that makes it hard for him. The knockback doesnt suit him either. Dancing blade is so easy to get out off its silly. Shield breaker is always viable tho. Marth just needs a kick in mobility -Posts a video about his custom up b-

 

[Emblem Lord]

Stop confusing the word mobile with having quick recovery on attacks.

They are not interchangeable.

He is very mobile. However he commits to attacks. That is the "slowness" you feel, which has nothing to do with his movement.

 

[Kibzu~]

Stop confusing the word mobile with having quick recovery on attacks.

They are not interchangeable.

He is very mobile. However he commits to attacks. That is the "slowness" you feel, which has nothing to do with his movement.

He 100% isn't mobile. He doesn't have the speed or options with fluid movement to be classed as "mobile"

 

[Honor]

He 100% isn't mobile. He doesn't have the speed or options with fluid movement to be classed as "mobile"

It seems like your using mobile in a much broader way .

 

[Emblem Lord]

His movement is quite fluid.

That's not his problem.

 

[Xisin]

EL is correct in that marths problem is simply commitment. His range is nice still, his zoning is nice still he is still mobile with a fair running speed, aerial speed and the fastest walking speed in the game, and if you are super on point with him hes def a contender, the problem lies in him being on point. Unfortunately due to commitment his mistakes are punished hard and without remorse for often 25+% by higher tiers. I still think marth is mid tier... not bottom. Something Marth has gotten so far from this game: no one respects him on bf anymore... which they should, I get to go to bf all the time now.