Japan already has a Tier list

[BredCat]

Source please?

Found it on a post on IGN Boards.

(Can't link it yet.)

 

[Clemente]

Agree with some of it, some of it is baloney.

I feel that rating Little Mac low has become a meme at this point, like "I'm so good that Little Macs are trash to me." The guy has a 360* counter, runs super fast, great hitboxes, great damage, super armor on half his moves, and that bizarre 1HKO meter. Whenever I hear it even implied that he's not high tier I have to laugh.

Just because a lot of people using it are stupid or predictable doesn't mean it's low tier, that's not how this works... it's about the character potential.

 

[Bahamut]

IC's started out low tier when SSBM came out. Just a thought.

 

[Bahamut]

IC's started out low tier when SSBM came out. Just a thought.

 

[Clemente]

Now that I'm looking at this again, this is the stupidest thing I've ever read once I get down to D and E and stuff. Troll list.

 

[nyttyn]

Eh, Little Mac is, AT PRESENT METAGAME KNOWLEDGE AND SKILL LEVELS, not fantastic as a character. Mostly because any stage with any sort of platform or gaps leaves him instantly at a huge disadvantage. Mac's air game is just that bad frankly. He also has an incredibly disappointing grab range, which people are starting to figure out and abuse.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't rank him low, but I think high C is a fair rank for FD only. He suffers from a considerable number of flaws that keep him from being cream of the crop, but I believe a good Little Mac can go toe to toe with anyone on any stage named "omega mode" or "final destination."

Outside of that it gets super iffy, and once we start getting tournaments with a higher range of characters, I think it'll be fair to rank Little Mac very low, since, y'know, lolplatforms.

 

[greatbernard]

Agree on their top tier.

Agree on most of the B Tier, except Wario was nerfed in this game.

C-Tier. Falcon, Diddy and Little Mac should be higher. Pac-Man lower perhaps.

D-Tier. Marth and Falco should be higher.

 

[Jaedrik]

For what it's worth, Leffen tweeted a reason why he thought Shulk was so low from an askfm question.
It's pretty much that Shulk is okay in most areas, but that he's too slow for competitive play.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I MEAN, HERP DERP, I PLAY MAC AND BEAT ALL MY FRIENDS AND HAVE 98% WIN RATE FOR GLORY SO HE MUST BE THE BEST RIGHT?

I have a 92% win rate in my past 100 games and recently won a 16 man online tornament.

Zard must clearly be S tier.

 

[Zigoon95]

I won lots of matches against For Glory Sheik with Pikachu and Jigglypuff, I lost lots of them.
I lost some matches against For Glory Ganondorf with Pikachu and Jigglypuff and I won some of them.
It is simply about how much a character is used, if it depends on the character.

But in my opinion, here in SSB4 it is not the character who is good or bad, but it is the player who is able or isn't able to use it. Better, I think it is the matchup between the players that actually works: I had lost many matches against some people, as long as I won against some other guys.

In any case, if tier lists exist, I think it is better to wait a bit more, in order to make an efficient one. Pikachu seems more fluid to me, maybe because I wasn't able to use it in Melee/Brawl. Seriously, some days ago I tried Melee Pikachu and it was traumatic.

 

[warionumbah2]

"too early for tier list" STFU

Only thing we cannot confirm is the lower tiers or B tiers the higher ups are easier to point out, Little Mac is only good due to the stage we all play the most(FD) which is his best stage.

Sheik,Luma(He's the real MVP not Rosa),Yoshi,Greninja,ZSS(Zero Suit Spamus or Fanservice Samus) are all high tier characters in my book.

Sheik can combo anything out of her damn throws and has good killing moves, Luma is just a monster with no weaknesses in MU(atm), Yoshi is incredible now, Greninja is another good character and somewhat overused because of how good he is online, ZSS is great her down throw combos in Fair and potentially another.

As i said its easier to point out the good characters than the middle...low chars, i don't think its early to point out the obvious good characters.

 

[Fathom778]

No way Ike is that low.
In Brawl he was C-Tier and he only got improved - Final Smash doing less damage.
THIS is why I don't believe in Tier lists, especially early Tier lists.

 

[BLTspirit]

I have seen phenomenal kirby/puff players. Although I believe greninja and bowser will remain at the top.

 

[HealingCircle]

@the people in this thread who are defending/questioning those who dislike it:

Here's a tier list. Tell me it's not terrible.

S: DK

F: Everyone else.

It's not much different than this one. Pure speculation and misinformation.

 

[Kekezo]

I feel like they just decided who was the best and then pulled sticks for the rest. There shouldn't even be nearly as many tiers in as there are. Sakurai (and friends) did a better job balancing this time around. The gaps between the strongest and weakest characters aren't nearly as big as they've been in the past.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

@the people in this thread who are defending/questioning those who dislike it

Here's a tier list. Tell me it's not terrible.

S: DK

F: Everyone else.

It's not much different than this one. Pure speculation and misinformation.

Not really, thing with yours is this.
"DK is above everyone else, and the rest are equal".
All I have to ask is "What leads you to believe DK is above everyone else?"
In the japanese list though no one would believe it is accurate, there are significantly more talking points because of how they attempted to categories characters.

 

[Cammed Z28]

Agree with some of it, some of it is baloney.

I feel that rating Little Mac low has become a meme at this point, like "I'm so good that Little Macs are trash to me." The guy has a 360* counter, runs super fast, great hitboxes, great damage, super armor on half his moves, and that bizarre 1HKO meter. Whenever I hear it even implied that he's not high tier I have to laugh.

Just because a lot of people using it are stupid or predictable doesn't mean it's low tier, that's not how this works... it's about the character potential.

L o l everyone ALWAYS talks about Mac negatively in countless ways but always finish with "but I always beat him, I always prevail" like obviously they have had their butts whooped by too many unskilled Macs and they are all butthurt and pride will not allow them to admit defeat on an internet forum

 

[InfiniteTripping]

Being complete trash in the air is a huge weakness when in high level play, nearly half of the fight is spent in the air. Little Mac has a lot of strengths but a lot of the time, a single-minded grab spam can trash the character. Of all the characters, Mac is the most devastated by grabs.

I think Bowser Jr. stands to rise a lot more (that his up B recovery doesn't put him in helplessness, fakes out characters that rely on juggling, and gives him a powerful aerial attack that is ridiculous good if you ask me) but overall these preliminary tiers look pretty accurate to what I've seen from the game so far. We all can share anecdotal evidence of the mythical unstoppable Ness we fought online, or the friend who aces the game as Ganondorf. But I think it'd be more useful to explain strategy than to be like, "Well take my word for it, these Japanese gamers don't know what they are talking about!"

 

[Gawain]

Early tier lists don't really mean much. Just look at a history of the past games.

 

[Tsukihi Araragi]

>Marth is D teir
Oh how the mighty have fallen.

 

[xTeru]

Not legit because Diddy is so low

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I've noticed a lot of people angry with the placement of their mains, while I do agree its way too early to make a tier list you also have to know that in said list not everyone can be at the top of it. the top notes the advantages that they have and their weaknesses whether or not "your" opponent can exploit it is a cases by case situation. Also the tier list doesn't mean your main is terrible if its at the bottom nor does it mean the one at the top is the best, the example of this would be fox from melee he was top tier but he was extremely hard to use at a competitive level. Basically stop trying to prove the list right or wrong with your for glory win ratio it doesn't say much at all because most people online don't play at a high enough level to prove anything

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I've noticed a lot of people angry with the placement of their mains, while I do agree its way too early to make a tier list you also have to know that in said list not everyone can be at the top of it. the top notes the advantages that they have and their weaknesses whether or not "your" opponent can exploit it is a cases by case situation. Also the tier list doesn't mean your main is terrible if its at the bottom nor does it mean the one at the top is the best, the example of this would be fox from melee he was top tier but he was extremely hard to use at a competitive level. Basically stop trying to prove the list right or wrong with your for glory win ratio it doesn't say much at all because most people online don't play at a high enough level to prove anything

Plus using For Glory stats is a little disingenuous in that, there's only one stage and it is online where lag can make certain characters a lot better. This tier list is based off of local wireless tournament play, from my understanding.

 

[IblisTriggersPuppet]

I disagree with this list

Ness and Toon link are great in my opinion


and ganondorf plays surprisingly well compared to brawl

 

[the8thark]

Japan already has a Tier list

Source of this tier list please?

 

[FlamePikaYoshi]

I can't find the list...... WHERE IS IT?! Okay, can someone please tell me where to find it or just post the list in a comment (though that would probably take long).

Or can someone tell me at least Yoshi,Pikachu,Ness,Greninja,and Pac-Man's tiers?

#RIP(cause Zelda and Sheik can't transform anymore so R.I.P. Sheilda)

 

[the8thark]

Found it on a post on IGN Boards.

(Can't link it yet.)

Ok thanks. Will take the actual tier list with appropriate amounts of salt then.

It's still way too early to have a proper tier list. And the pros here will make their own tier list and I'd believe them way more than some random on IGN.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

It's really not too early to start making some estimates of what characters will be pretty good, and which ones aren't going to make the cut. I have about 20 hours into the game, and I am on the low end of time put in. This talk of too soon was maybe appropriate about one week after the Japanese release... but some have had this game for a month now. Certain trends are popping up that are undeniable.

 

[R0Y]

A Tier:

(Top) Sheik, Yoshi, Rosalina
(Bottom) Greninja, Zero Suit Samus

B Tier:

(Top) Bowser, Lucario
(Middle) Sonic, Fox, Wario
(Bottom) Duck Hunt Duo

C Tier:

(Top) Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Pit, Dark Pit, Little Mac
(Middle) Pac-Man, Peach, Villager
(Bottom) Bowser Jr., Mario, Meta Knight

D Tier:

(Top) Toon Link, Pikachu, Marth, Donkey Kong, R.O.B.
(Middle) King Dedede, Dr. Mario, Charizard, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucina, Jigglypuff, Olimar, Mega Man, Robin
(Bottom) Link, Zelda, Falco, Ness

E Tier:

(Top) Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, Luigi, Kirby, Ike, Shulk
(Bottom) Ganondorf, Palutena

Apparently Japan already has a tier list for Smash 4. I think it is pretty bad... what about you, though?

No way Palutena is that low on a Western list, at least as the metagame develops

 

[the8thark]

It's really not too early to start making some estimates of what characters will be pretty good, and which ones aren't going to make the cut. I have about 20 hours into the game, and I am on the low end of time put in. This talk of too soon was maybe appropriate about one week after the Japanese release... but some have had this game for a month now. Certain trends are popping up that are undeniable.

Some people is not everybody. It's be no different with the WiiU version. The NA people will have the game for 2 days then make up their own personal tier lists. We have to give everyone ample time to play thew game before tier lists should show up. I think who is going to be winning the tournaments is one of the best ways to make a tier list. Tier lists are really made by pros for pros. The rest of us just plays as whoever we find fun.

 

[TypePositive]

isn't nearly bottom. and are top for sure, I feel like you could put the rest anywhere and still be right. The balance in this smash is close enough. Rosa needs to get nerfed for serious though.

 

[FlamePikaYoshi]

Falco should be lower lol

says the person who mains falco in all games from melee-->ssb4 lol
actually falco was nerfed...his lasers have limited range now and his up smash SUCKS!!! I hate that cause I'm actually a Falco main myself.

My mains: 64
Melee
Brawl
Project M
Smash 4
Jeez I have a lot of mains.... I actually play every character, kinda like Mew2King.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

Some people is not everybody. It's be no different with the WiiU version. The NA people will have the game for 2 days then make up their own personal tier lists. We have to give everyone ample time to play thew game before tier lists should show up. I think who is going to be winning the tournaments is one of the best ways to make a tier list. Tier lists are really made by pros for pros. The rest of us just plays as whoever we find fun.

This tier list was made by tournament results, according to the OP. And they aren't made by everyone who plays the game either. No tier list is completely static for all time. So if you're against the tier list on the assumption that it will never change now that it is written, then you need not worry. I think this list does show an accurate preliminary reading of what is going on. I don't anticipate a lot of characters going too far up or down from this list.

 

[the8thark]

This tier list was made by tournament results, according to the OP. And they aren't made by everyone who plays the game either. No tier list is completely static for all time. So if you're against the tier list on the assumption that it will never change now that it is written, then you need not worry. I think this list does show an accurate preliminary reading of what is going on. I don't anticipate a lot of characters going too far up or down from this list.

I am not against who is in the tier list. That does not bother me. I am just saying a random tier list posted by a random person on IGN who claims the tier list is from tournament results is very hard to believe. I am waiting for the pros here to make up their tier lists from their tournament results. That will be a more legitimate tier list.

And I know the list is not static. But that's not what I was talking about.

 

[FlamePikaYoshi]

I JUST FOUND THE LIST ITS ****ING WRONG
A Tier-
B Tier-
C Tier-
D Tier-
E Tier-
omg marth is a low tier
PALUTENA AT THE BOTTOM?!
but dr.mario is supposed to be high tier T_T
WHY SHULK SO LOW?! he should be at least higher than ike!!!!
lol I was kind of expecting megaman to be low tier cause he has too many projectiles (my friend thought he would be 1st)
OMG FOX IS ACTUALLY GOOD
ganondorf plays better than in brawl he is faster more powerful better combos super armor warlock punch.....wait SUPER ARMOR WARLOCK PUNCH?! HAAAAALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R.I.P. competitive falco T_T
yay mk was nerfed
ROBIN A LOW TIER?! ROBIN IS F**KING GOOD AND ALSO ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!
y bowser jr c tier?
waiwaiwaiwaiwait!!!! SHEIK IS AT THE TOP LIKE THE FIRST FEW TIER LISTS OF MELEE?!
legends destroyed:mk,olimar,falco,Pikachu,marth,dr.Mario,dedede,toon link,rob,game & watch
legends created/recreated:sheik,Yoshi,bowser,sonic,falcon
so many things wrong...

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I JUST FOUND THE LIST ITS ****ING WRONG
A Tier-
B Tier-
C Tier-
D Tier-
E Tier-
omg marth is a low tier
PALUTENA AT THE BOTTOM?!
but dr.mario is supposed to be high tier T_T
WHY SHULK SO LOW?! he should be at least higher than ike!!!!
lol I was kind of expecting megaman to be low tier cause he has too many projectiles (my friend thought he would be 1st)
OMG FOX IS ACTUALLY GOOD
ganondorf plays better than in brawl he is faster more powerful better combos super armor warlock punch.....wait SUPER ARMOR WARLOCK PUNCH?! HAAAAALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R.I.P. competitive falco T_T
yay mk was nerfed
ROBIN A LOW TIER?! ROBIN IS F**KING GOOD AND ALSO ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!
y bowser jr c tier?
waiwaiwaiwaiwait!!!! SHEIK IS AT THE TOP LIKE THE FIRST FEW TIER LISTS OF MELEE?!
legends destroyed:mk,olimar,falco,Pikachu,marth,dr.Mario,dedede,toon link,rob,game & watch
legends created/recreated:sheik,Yoshi,bowser,sonic,falcon
so many things wrong...






your list makes just as little sense

 

[Ussi]

guys relax its just a list. There is going to be a WORST character even if he/she doesn't feel bad, but the list is RELATIVE TO THE REST OF THE CHARACTERS. If the worst character doesn't feel bad, then man they did a good job balancing the game. But the game is young so none of us should even have a good feel and understanding of every single character and MU.

Also most people here seem to be new to tier list discussions. Its a which character will win a tournament the best. For that, you gotta look at every single MU cause to be top tier, you gotta have the least bad MUs, and the worst character has the most bad MUs. Eventually when the list fleshes out, it'll come down to weighted MUs cause some bad MUs might not be a factor as much as others.

In other news, I main a bottom tier character, huzzas! Time to make people feel bad.

 

[Gicks]

Shulk and Robin should be at the top...
Kirby E?! HAHAHHAA!

ya kirby that low is kind of a joke in it self

 

[synesthe-sia]

I'm personally giving it a year or two before I start taking any Smash 4 tier list seriously.

 

[Greda]

Everyone on E is just LOL. I want to mention Palutena, though. Why does everyone think she is weak? She can literally adjust to any one opponent. I've been dominating as her in 1v1's.