Jab->Down-B

[nash123]

This *****, why have I seen nobody use it?Anyone who rolls after the jab gets chased by down-b if you react quick enough.If they spotdodge you can just stay in the same place and get like 8-12% racked on.If they shield you can apply shield pressure or retreat with down-b.If both the jab and every down-b hit connects you get 15% compared to 9% from d-throw.This "combo" is great, so give it a try.By the way, when you do use this don't hold down after the jab as it slows this down just hit down and B at the same time.

Discuss.

 

[-Mars-]

If you retreat with it if they shield, they'll hit you with a projectile.

 

[nash123]

If you retreat with it if they shield, they'll hit you with a projectile.

So is your opponent always going to have a projectile?Also, you can make your down-b go into the air ya know.

 

[-Mars-]

So is your opponent always going to have a projectile?Also, you can make your down-b go into the air ya know.

If they don't, good for you. Say your playing a Pit or Zelda.......what does going in the air accomplish? Now you put yourself in a juggling situation whereas if you would have just grabbed, the situation would have been reversed.

 

[nash123]

If they don't, good for you. Say your playing a Pit or Zelda.......what does going in the air accomplish? Now you put yourself in a juggling situation whereas if you would have just grabbed, the situation would have been reversed.

It accomplishes nothing versus them, I was talking about stuff like wolfs blaster.I could also say the same thing for grabbing, say they spotdodge the grab, and punish you with a quick smash attack, that situation could have been reversed as well.The point of this isn't to use it every time but just use it as another mix up.

 

[elheber]

nash, if you've gotten a hang of Jab Grabs, Jab dSmashes, Jab dTilts, Jab FJPs, Jab fSmashes, and Jab Cancels and STILL find the Cyclone to be one of the better follow ups, then keep using it. I don't like to discourage people from trying to find new ways to improve Luigi's metagame. You might get so good at it that you blow out minds away.

Nevertheless, none of Luigi's Jab followups should be spammed; instead, they should be mixed up so that the opponent can't figure out how to counter you. This isn't to say that it's a bad follow up, because it isn't. But it doesn't **** (low damage, punishable, easily shielded).

 

[nash123]

I never did say this should be spammed, I actually said it should be just used as another mix up in the post before yours. if you say this is low damage then you are saying jab->grab is low damage which is the most common one.Jab->grabs max damage is 15% and thats with a B-throw.You are saying this is easily punishable, F-smash, D-smash, FJP, and especially dtilt are punishable.Down-b can also be started up even quicker than all of those except firepunch.Easily shielded, all the options you listed are easily shielded.

Don't use it if you don't want to, I posted it here cause it has worked for me.

 

[Magus420]

You are saying this is easily punishable, F-smash, D-smash, FJP, and especially dtilt are punishable.Down-b can also be started up even quicker than all of those except firepunch.Easily shielded, all the options you listed are easily shielded.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175652

D-Smash (5), D-Tilt (5), Grab (6, but effectively 5 since you can connect it on the 1st shield frame before they can dodge), and FJP (6) are all faster than Down-B (7).

Furthermore, if timed right D-Smash/Tilt and Grab are not shieldable/dodgeable by a large majority of the cast unless they are holding down when they get jabbed, and even then it still works on a good amount of characters. Up-B can be blocked in more situations than those, but is still reliable on some characters and on most DI. Down-B, being slower than that, probably can't reliably connect on more than just a few characters if any and would be more DI dependant (need to be holding up).

So in many cases you can get a reliable 15 or so damage with D-Smash/Tilt or grab, as opposed to a shieldable Down-B that you can get a max of ~15% if you're lucky and they don't shield at all, 8-12% if they sidestep, and nothing if they just shield which in the vast majority of cases they'll have enough time to do.

 

[hippiedude92]

I never did say this should be spammed, I actually said it should be just used as another mix up in the post before yours. if you say this is low damage then you are saying jab->grab is low damage which is the most common one.Jab->grabs max damage is 15% and thats with a B-throw.You are saying this is easily punishable, F-smash, D-smash, FJP, and especially dtilt are punishable.Down-b can also be started up even quicker than all of those except firepunch.Easily shielded, all the options you listed are easily shielded.

Don't use it if you don't want to, I posted it here cause it has worked for me.

Actually, Jab cancels to smashs are safe because of strong the knockback it is. So even if they shield it, they'll just be pushed away. Jab FJPs all it takes is a powershield and your punished. Also, Jab bthrows weren't made for racking up damage, they were made soley for throw kills and setup for offstage kills. Most luigis will be doing Jab dthrows which is a 9% when it's fresh. It's only a 6% damage difference between jab tornados and jab dthrows.

And magus was just about to put down what i was gonna say lol.

Anyways, luigi's tornado isn't made for shield pressure, it's mostly made for surprises, approaching, rack up damage and set them up in the air. Oh and if your going to shield pressure them when your behind them so they can't shield grab it, forget it cause ending lag is waiting for you in no man's land.

 

[chic]

it's an ok move...

 

[nash123]

Alright well magus and hippie got me pretty good and I can't really argue with what they say as it all seems valid.So now this really just seems like a suprise move but that seems like its pushing it.Oh well I tried.

 

[CR4SH]

I'd like to add. Jab-Dthrow isn't about dthrow as a source of damage, it's about dthrow as a setup for other things. Uair does 13%, a pummel does 3, get both of them in and jab-pummel-dthrow-uair does 25.

 

[nash123]

I'd like to add. Jab-Dthrow isn't about dthrow as a source of damage, it's about dthrow as a setup for other things. Uair does 13%, a pummel does 3, get both of them in and jab-pummel-dthrow-uair does 25.

Air dodge.

 

[CR4SH]

Air dodge.

Predict the air dodge.

Even better, condition them to the airdodge then punish the hell out of them for using it.

 

[nash123]

Predict the air dodge.

Even better, condition them to the airdodge then punish the hell out of them for using it.

I know, i'm just refering to d-throw air combos in general.

 

[LuigiKing]

Predict the air dodge.

Even better, condition them to the airdodge then punish the hell out of them for using it.

Haha I do this way too often. I get them to predict my Uair, then just decide to hyphen smash in the direction I think they might go (towards the center of the stage). I usually get a half charged Usmash in, then come the next Dthrow, I get an aerial combo. Its fun times.