I've Hit "The Wall."

[TundraZer0]

Alright, well, I've been playing Smash Bros on-and-off since first grade (I'm a Junior in high school now.) And I'm decent, to say the least. I main Link and Competitively I'd say, at best, I'm Mid to Upper-mid tier at best. I actually have played in a tourny before, it was local, so it wasn't anything major. (Not to mention I live in Iowa. lol) I placed third and was beaten by Jiggilypuff. (Lawl.) I'm much better than all my friends and the level 9 coms are way to easy for me.

ANYWAYS...I guess I'm finding it really hard to "reach the next level." I literally just got my hands on Project64k two days ago, but I'm not really seeing any improvement, as far as I can see. It's either I get absolutely owned or 'I' completely own. Neither really help me.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is, what'd you guys recommend for me to get better or 'ascend?' I just find the spot I'm in kinda awkward to get better. Do I need to high-tier Link to show me the ropes? Or do I just need keep playing Online and just suck it up and hope I improve? Or watch Isai on YouTube and try to copy his maneuvers? I dunno, any advice?

 

[SheerMadness]

Everyone hits a wall at some point. And no one sees marked improvement after only being online two days.

Yes keep playing and practicing, that's the only way to improve.

 

[TundraZer0]

Everyone hits a wall at some point. And no one sees marked improvement after only being online two days.

Yes keep playing and practicing, that's the only way to improve.

True. True. I just find this game to get very awkward to get better after a certain point. Wish more conventional fighters, you learn your combos and you learn how to use them against the other characters. Whereas this game, there's just so many variables in every single fight. Different enemies, levels, playstyles ect.

Though, I really wish I found out about Project64k sooner. 'Cause when ever one of my friends wanted to play me in it claiming "they were unbeatable." We'd fight and they killed me MAYBE once in a 5 stock game. lol

And outta curiosity, can mics be used online to talk to people in Project64k? Or is it really only if you're in a Skype chat playing someone P2P or whatever? (Which I honestly haven't done yet. P2P, I mean.)

 

[MrMarbles]

Hey Tundra let me know if you wanna play online because i would say i'm a "mid-level" player too. And you are right most people online are either way too good or complete noobs so us middle of the road people need to practice against each other

 

[Yobolight]

I hit a wall like all the time and I think I am never going to get any better, but I always keep on learning new stuff.

I have recently found that the best way for me to get past a wall is to do work on movement in training mode or to spend time developing another character in order to gain insight on how to optimize your main.

 

[M!nt]

Sorry to say but if you came in third in a local most likely small tourny, you're no where near middle tier.

Watching videos is good, but it can only get you so far, all i can recommend is play online and just keep working at it. If you got z cancels and stuff down, mostly you're just working on combos and spacing which you get from practice.

good luck! hopefully we can play on the server sometime! c:

 

[SheerMadness]

When you're playing against players better than yourself, try to pay attention to which part of your game they're exploiting the most. You probably have some pretty bad habits/patterns they've noticed (that you may not have realized you even have) that they're punishing pretty hard.

Do you get up from the ledge the same way every time? Do you roll often? Do you approach the same way every time? Do you spam up tilt too much? Etc.

Also take notice of strategies that seem to be exceptionally successful for them, and try to adapt them yourself.

 

[TundraZer0]

Sorry to say but if you came in third in a local most likely small tourny, you're no where near middle tier.
good luck! hopefully we can play on the server sometime! c:

Well, in my defense, I was actually a lot better than the guy who got seconds place, but because of the bracket placements, I got pitched up against Mr. 1st place. In which I had zero match-up experience against a decent/good Puffer. (Jigglypuff.) Maybe I'm not close to mid-tier. I honestly don't know. I was just trying to say that I'm not completely new to smash or a "noob." I don't want to thought of as a cocky jerk who bites more than he can chew.

And I would enjoy playing you online. I need all the match-up experience I can get.

Hey Tundra let me know if you wanna play online because i would say i'm a "mid-level" player too. And you are right most people online are either way too good or complete noobs so us middle of the road people need to practice against each other

Sounds good, man. I'd definitely be up for it. I'd love to have a training partner.

When you're playing against players better than yourself, try to pay attention to which part of your game they're exploiting the most. You probably have some pretty bad habits/patterns they've noticed (that you may not have realized you even have) that they're punishing pretty hard.

Do you get up from the ledge the same way every time? Do you roll often? Do you approach the same way every time? Do you spam up tilt too much? Etc.

Also take notice of strategies that seem to be exceptionally successful for them, and try to adapt them yourself.

Great advice, good sir. =D I'll definitely take notice of things like that. I do think I sometimes use Up-A (Not Smash Up-A) too many time consecutively in a row. I feel like I need to mix it up after one or two hits with that, because it can get punishable.


And as a side note: Do you guys think it would be beneficial for me to record a video of me fighting someone or a com or something, and get stuff I'm doing wrong/can improve one brought to my attention. (Or critiqued?)

Regardless, thanks for all the input thus far, guys.

 

[clubbadubba]

vids of you vs a human could be helpful yes

 

[MrMarbles]

Sounds good, man. I'd definitely be up for it. I'd love to have a training partner.

we should play sometime this week? i can even record and upload if you want? I feel like watching yourself fight is a good way to see your flaws and improve

 

[TundraZer0]

we should play sometime this week? i can even record and upload if you want? I feel like watching yourself fight is a good way to see your flaws and improve

Yeah, that'd be good. I'm free pretty much anytime except for Saturday when I work 5-10pm (Central time.) Yeah, and you recording it would be awesome. I only have the abilities to record consoles, so you recording some matches would definitely be cool. Should be add each other on Skype to see when we're both online?

 

[breakthrough]

I'd love to have some not super good but not terrible players to play against as well, could maybe try out hosting P2P with either of you if interested. Send me a PM with your skype or something, my availability ranges day to day but I'm online a lot when I'm not at work and would love to have some consistent practice partners. I usually work somewhere around 2pm or 3pm to 11pm EST (I live in South East PA, close to Philly.) I have most of my days off during the week, but if you are awake around 10 or 11 in the morning EST for me I'm available to play a lot and absolutely love smash. I'm at that point where I'm finally landing 90-95% of my z-cancels and doing some decent combos. Kirby main, but I've been rocking Falcon a LOT recently. Send me a pm if you're interested in some online or P2P play with me, I know how to forward ports and could most likely host some (haven't tried yet but I'm very tech savvy so I'm sure it will be easy to figure out with KnitePhox's guide.)

 

[MrMarbles]

Future generation of smashers right here lol

 

[B-Town]

I think I'm about that level where I can beat my friends irl but online I'm very much in between the noobs and the good players. Playing people at our level is the best way to improve, I'm sure we all also have different playstyles and can learn from each other. I've also got skype and would be down to train with you guys if you're at my level.

 

[MrMarbles]

nyoouber send me your skype info and we can play right now

 

[B Link]

My advice:
- Offline (on console preferably) is the ultimate means of measuring skill level.
- If you're main-ing Link, play 100% Link and try and play against the matchups & players you struggle against (offline).
E.g. You lost to X player's jigglypuff. Improvement is determined if you get closer to beating that person/actually beat that person in seriouslies.

You can say you're improving by beating Y person's

Online can be frustrating for many reasons:
- You're not interacting with humans face-to-face (artificially social) -- real life interaction is necessary for humans (or you go insane)
- Lag/delay can mess you up

Online is good for facing a variety of players. You do need to at least know what your Link v. a good Falcon is like. If all the falcon players around you offline suck then ok, play a bit online. It will teach you the basics of certain match-ups. However, just keep it in the back of your mind that 0 frames on console should be the ultimate determiner of skill.

 

[Doomolish]

Just practice everyday and you'll notice your improvement in the long run.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't think there's much else to say other than practice makes perfect. You might not even notice the distinct changes and it might seem like you've hit a wall, but every time you play you improve in some way or another. I'm certain that you didn't play perfectly when you played in that local, and that is where you can look for improvement.

Ask yourself: "Why did i lose?" "What did I do wrong?" "What do I need to work on? My z-canceling? My spacing? My DI? Perhaps I don't know the match up well enough? How did he beat me?"

Then go from there. I try to play smash at least once a day for about an hour, even if it's just me ******* around in training mode. Don't be afraid to admit your faults, and always consider that there is something you could do better. I would also suggest recording yourself playing, or perhaps assessing it mentally.

 

[B Link]

Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

[Battlecow]

I'd say don't pin your losses on things like "Z-canceling." You're losing for a million reasons, and you could improve in a jillion different ways; improve your z-canceling, but don't expect that to solve everything, it's just the easiest-to-fix problem and the quickest path to improvement. Be on the lookout for stuff your opponent does better than you, try to mimic it, think about new strategies and find out WHY they don't work.

 

[Yobolight]

Learn how to read habits, that is the single best way to get better at this game.

 

[MrMarbles]

Learn how to read habits, that is the single best way to get better at this game.

Sheer gave me this same advice and it has helped me alot so far.

 

[BumbleBomb]

Anyway I can get in on some of that training? Maybe someone with recording capabilities could play me so I can watch myself and learn? That's one thing i haven't tried yet. Most other things I have tried, and haven't really seen any improvement. I even rage quit off of kailleera for a while because I ran up against ridiculous opponents....

 

[MrMarbles]

Anyway I can get in on some of that training? Maybe someone with recording capabilities could play me so I can watch myself and learn? That's one thing i haven't tried yet. Most other things I have tried, and haven't really seen any improvement. I even rage quit off of kailleera for a while because I ran up against ridiculous opponents....

ya sure ill play you. do u have a skype? im gonna pm you and send u my skype info and i can record as well

 

[BumbleBomb]

ya sure ill play you. do u have a skype? im gonna pm you and send u my skype info and i can record as well

I actually don't have Skype. Wish I did, but I don't. You may have to be the one to record and post so we can see

 

[MrMarbles]

thats fine just let me know when u wanna play. im probably not free to play until monday tho

 

[B-Town]

Marbles, you gotta record next time we play! that'd be really helpful.
I'd also be down to play you bumblebob

 

[breakthrough]

I actually don't have Skype. Wish I did, but I don't. You may have to be the one to record and post so we can see

Unless there's a specific reason you don't have skype, you should get it. It's how I communicate with some training partners of mine and a way of knowing when each other are available to play. (MrMarbles being one of them) I can host p2p as well

 

[MrMarbles]

Yeah dude just let me know when we play cuz ill forget

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I've Hit "The Wall."

*shudder* The wall is a horrible place to be. Down in the little back alley of Hyrule is a very popular place to hit "the wall". Its just horrific how Pikachu slams you against it again and again. *thud* *thud* *thud* *thud* Oh, and the tail whips are the worst. *crack* *crack* *crack* Its never ending.

 

[BumbleBomb]

Yeah dude just let me know when we play cuz ill forget

ok, well when can you play? i can play anytime on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and in the evening any other day

 

[BumbleBomb]

Marbles, you gotta record next time we play! that'd be really helpful.
I'd also be down to play you bumblebob

The more the merrier

 

[BumbleBomb]

I will download Skype and let you know

 

[BumbleBomb]

ok i downloaded skype, name is p8riotscb28, im on now if anyone is on.

 

[MrMarbles]

hey BumbleBomb here are some of the matches that i recorded. They are not in order which in hindsight i wish i took the time to put them in order but oh well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geRD-StoQxs&feature=youtu.be
ps 100th message awe yeah!

 

[Battlecow]

ps 100th message awe yeah!

Oh that's cute

LOL I open up the vid and see an almost-complete gerson combo. I was so sad when I realized that that doesn't work

 

[MrMarbles]

Haha it almost worked in that case but I messed it up. But ur right it usually doesn't work cuz the first nair knocks them too high

 

[B-Town]

Marbles wanna play some p2p right now?

 

[MrMarbles]

Marbles wanna play some p2p right now?

I'm busy with work stuff right now but I should be free later tonight but idk what time exactly. i'll log on skype when iIm free.

 

[BumbleBomb]

I think it definitely helps to see myself on video. i can see the areas of improvement that I can work on. still though, I wanna rage when i come cross these ******** good people online. they don't make me better, they are just frustrate and discourage me. To think that over 10 years of playing this game can be reduced to nothing...