Necro'lic
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2015
- Messages
- 654
This is super theorycrafting time since I already know Ultimate isn't like this, but with all the discussions I've been having about how shielding works in Ultimate with the higher endlag and perfect shield, I feel like there might be a better way to make shields work. Here are two ideas of mine:
Low shield endlag + Move specific shieldstun
I think the system we have in place now where most of the punishment of shielding comes from the endlag of it is a bit too simple an interaction if you can believe it. I think a better system would be to have a very low endlag on shield of maybe 5 frames or something ridiculous, but almost all attacks have a very high shieldstun factor.
With this system in place, most of the safety of the move on shield is based on the shieldstun of said move rather than the shield's mechanics itself. On top of this, if the generally slower moves end up being safe on shield while the quick moves, or at least some, end up being less safe, it could also potentially emphasize more whiff punishing play rather than simply staying in shield.
For example, Maybe you can have Ganondorf's FAir have high landing lag, but very high shieldstun to the point where it is safe on shield. At that point, if you think he's going to FAir at you, you simply make him miss and punish instead of simply shielding, discouraging the spamming of shield for approaching. On the other hand, maybe Ganon's UAir or NAir could have very low landing lag, but absolutely no shieldstun, so if the landing lag is more than 5 frames (most likely), it can be approached and punished, stopping the spamming of simply fast options to stop approaches with shield. Basically, shield can both stop approaches as well as not be spammed to approach, depending on what your opponent is doing.
This is really me spitballing an idea I admittedly haven't thought completely through yet, but the general reasoning behind it is to go against the trend I see in pretty much every Smash game where the fastest attacks also mean the safest on block, giving way too much advantage to those with low frame pokes while hurting many characters who simply don't have a good safe on shield option. And I haven't even gotten to my other, admittedly less crazy idea.
Character specific shield health amounts + Move specific shield damage
Right now, all characters share the same amount of health on their shields. What if it wasn't like that? What if characters that are meant to have either less defense or more active defense, like Sheik and Villager respectively, had lower than average shield health to work with? Vice versa for more shield-reliant characters like pretty much all heavies, or maybe Jiggs too because of her special shield break? This then leads me to my next idea, move specific shield damage.
I already know some moves have shield damage already, like Bowser Bomb and Shield Breaker, but a lot of the shield damage comes from the move's damage. What if it was completely separate from the damage, so high damage moves like smash attacks can do almost nothing to shields? This could really help balance out faster characters' smash attacks by having them deal smash attack amounts of damage with little shield damage.
Again, these are all not really fleshed out, but just thoughts flying in my head. But the general idea besides buffing heavies and nerfing low frame data monsters is to just give more ways to work and balance moves for the characters overall. I know this isn't how Ultimate will be, but mark my words if I find a way to mod Ultimate years down the line, I will try this out. Just not sure how good it will be. :/
Low shield endlag + Move specific shieldstun
I think the system we have in place now where most of the punishment of shielding comes from the endlag of it is a bit too simple an interaction if you can believe it. I think a better system would be to have a very low endlag on shield of maybe 5 frames or something ridiculous, but almost all attacks have a very high shieldstun factor.
With this system in place, most of the safety of the move on shield is based on the shieldstun of said move rather than the shield's mechanics itself. On top of this, if the generally slower moves end up being safe on shield while the quick moves, or at least some, end up being less safe, it could also potentially emphasize more whiff punishing play rather than simply staying in shield.
For example, Maybe you can have Ganondorf's FAir have high landing lag, but very high shieldstun to the point where it is safe on shield. At that point, if you think he's going to FAir at you, you simply make him miss and punish instead of simply shielding, discouraging the spamming of shield for approaching. On the other hand, maybe Ganon's UAir or NAir could have very low landing lag, but absolutely no shieldstun, so if the landing lag is more than 5 frames (most likely), it can be approached and punished, stopping the spamming of simply fast options to stop approaches with shield. Basically, shield can both stop approaches as well as not be spammed to approach, depending on what your opponent is doing.
This is really me spitballing an idea I admittedly haven't thought completely through yet, but the general reasoning behind it is to go against the trend I see in pretty much every Smash game where the fastest attacks also mean the safest on block, giving way too much advantage to those with low frame pokes while hurting many characters who simply don't have a good safe on shield option. And I haven't even gotten to my other, admittedly less crazy idea.
Character specific shield health amounts + Move specific shield damage
Right now, all characters share the same amount of health on their shields. What if it wasn't like that? What if characters that are meant to have either less defense or more active defense, like Sheik and Villager respectively, had lower than average shield health to work with? Vice versa for more shield-reliant characters like pretty much all heavies, or maybe Jiggs too because of her special shield break? This then leads me to my next idea, move specific shield damage.
I already know some moves have shield damage already, like Bowser Bomb and Shield Breaker, but a lot of the shield damage comes from the move's damage. What if it was completely separate from the damage, so high damage moves like smash attacks can do almost nothing to shields? This could really help balance out faster characters' smash attacks by having them deal smash attack amounts of damage with little shield damage.
Again, these are all not really fleshed out, but just thoughts flying in my head. But the general idea besides buffing heavies and nerfing low frame data monsters is to just give more ways to work and balance moves for the characters overall. I know this isn't how Ultimate will be, but mark my words if I find a way to mod Ultimate years down the line, I will try this out. Just not sure how good it will be. :/