Isabelle is not a semi-clone

[Sudz]

Look at the reveal trailer and this gameplay footage and it is blatantly obvious that a significant portion of her moves are functionally not similar whatsoever to the moves used by Villager.

Her dash attack and up-special seem somewhat similar, but I think that's basically it. She looks quite distinct from Villager, and is no more their semiclone than Luigi* is Mario's semiclone.

At least, that's my hot take.

 

[Multi-bottle Thief]

She also has the same grab, same Neutral-b, and her up-tilt, wile she uses a broom, looks functionally similar to Villagers, and similar final smash. That's all I was able to catch, at least.

 

[Blackwolf666]

she can pocket projectiles, uses her net to throw and has a similar recovery as well.

 

[zferolie]

As I said in another thread, she is like the luigi to VIllagers Mario. Both her and Luigi have unique A moves and B moves, but they also both share A moves and B moves.

Falco to fox, Roy to Marth, are what I consider Semi clones. This is more a unique that has some simularitys

 

[Homelessvagrant]

she seems to share only three moves.....broom is nothing like Villahers stick twirl. I'd say she's unique.

 

[Sudz]

As I said in another thread, she is like the luigi to VIllagers Mario. Both her and Luigi have unique A moves and B moves, but they also both share A moves and B moves.

Falco to fox, Roy to Marth, are what I consider Semi clones. This is more a unique that has some simularitys

I'd say this is fair, just kept seeing the word "semi-clone" on the other boards and felt the need to throw it up here that I really very much so doubt that she is such. Luigi is a solid comparison

 

[Xevious 1]

I think she is the Luigi/Wolf/Lucas tier of semi clones. Share some similar moves, but the characters feel pretty different from their original fighters.
Roy, Falco, Pichu, Young Link, Dr Mario, and Toon Link are in between the above and echoes.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I think she is the Luigi/Wolf/Lucas tier of semi clones. Share some similar moves, but the characters feel pretty different from their original fighters.
Roy, Falco, Pichu, Young Link, Dr Mario, and Toon Link are in between the above and echoes.

As I said in another thread, she is like the luigi to VIllagers Mario. Both her and Luigi have unique A moves and B moves, but they also both share A moves and B moves.

Falco to fox, Roy to Marth, are what I consider Semi clones. This is more a unique that has some simularitys

So, should we start using a new term like semi-echo's to add another level of distinction?

 

[Sudz]

So, should we start using a new term like semi-echo's to add another level of distinction?

No, because they are significantly different from the other characters in the game. They play differently, they approach the game from a different perspective (assumption with Isabelle since we haven't played as her yet obviously but her trailer is a strong indicator of it) and therefore I see no need to give them any distinction whatsoever, as they are unique

 

[Fell God]

She also shares many similar animations, and that's a key part of what makes a character considered a semi clone as well. I'd say that if Falco, Luigi, and Lucas can be considered semi clones, then Isabelle can as well.

 

[Sudz]

She also shares many similar animations, and that's a key part of what makes a character considered a semi clone as well. I'd say that if Falco, Luigi, and Lucas can be considered semi clones, then Isabelle can as well.

Falco is way more similar to fox than Luigi is to Mario, so I wouldn't include them in the same demographic. Her moveset seems to facilitate a playstyle that is wholly dissimilar to Villager so I don't see the benefit or legitimacy of categorizing her that way. Luigi is the same way, and I don't think he's actually considered a semi clone at all these days...

 

[Xigger]

I composed a scientifically accurate depiction of clone levels:

100% Clone: Echoes
Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus, Richter

75% Clone: Clones
Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Ganondorf (Melee), Roy (Melee)

50% Clone: Clones, but their playstyle is different
Falco, Ganondorf (Brawl/SSB4), Roy, Toon Link

25% Clone: Luigified
Luigi, Ike?, Lucas, Wolf

 

[Blackwolf666]

No, because they are significantly different from the other characters in the game. They play differently, they approach the game from a different perspective (assumption with Isabelle since we haven't played as her yet obviously but her trailer is a strong indicator of it) and therefore I see no need to give them any distinction whatsoever, as they are unique

Not 100% unique they definitely take moves from a different character they are using as a base, but lets agree to disagree. I see them as a type of semi-clone but not as much of a semi-clone as other characters and you say the difference is not enough to be put into a different category.

 

[Sudz]

I composed a scientifically accurate depiction of clone levels:

100% Clone: Echoes
Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus, Richter

75% Clone: Clones
Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Ganondorf (Melee), Roy (Melee)

50% Clone: Clones, but their playstyle is different
Falco, Ganondorf (Brawl/SSB4), Roy, Toon Link

25% Clone: Luigified
Luigi, Ike?, Lucas, Wolf

I like this one, I'd say Ike doesn't belong on there at all and if someone added Isabelle to the 25%-tier then I would have no gripe with it. But that is with the understanding that being a 25% clone means they function only marginally more similar to their "clonee" than they do other characters in their weight class in the game, lol

 

[Tailisu10]

Isabelle seems more inline with Lucas and Wolf. she's definitely based on Villager , but she's pretty unique.

 

[zferolie]

I composed a scientifically accurate depiction of clone levels:

100% Clone: Echoes
Lucina, Dark Pit, Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus, Richter

75% Clone: Clones
Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Ganondorf (Melee), Roy (Melee)

50% Clone: Clones, but their playstyle is different
Falco, Ganondorf (Brawl/SSB4), Roy, Toon Link

25% Clone: Luigified
Luigi, Ike?, Lucas, Wolf

I like that. Isabelle is a Luigified Villager.

 

[Fane]

Her moveset is super similar to Villager's I'd say.

Despite having unique abilities and moves, most of her kit appears to act the same way.

Up Special is very similar to Villager's in the way it acts.
She has the same exact grab and neutral special.
Her 'broom' looks like Villager's stick twirl, just a bit different though.
Her down B is essentially a mish mash of Villager's down b and side b.
Her Final Smash is effectively the same as Villager's.

She also seems to take Inkling's down smash, just with a water bucket.

She's definitely closer to a semi-clone than anything else, I'd say, at least until we see more from her.

 

[Sudz]

Her moveset is super similar to Villager's I'd say.

Despite having unique abilities and moves, most of her kit appears to act the same way.

Up Special is very similar to Villager's in the way it acts.
She has the same exact grab and neutral special.
Her 'broom' looks like Villager's stick twirl, just a bit different though.
Her down B is essentially a mish mash of Villager's down b and side b.
Her Final Smash is effectively the same as Villager's.

She also seems to take Inkling's down smash, just with a water bucket.

She's definitely closer to a semi-clone than anything else, I'd say, at least until we see more from her.

Up-Special: True
Lots of grabs are the same
His stick twirl is multi-hit, no? Hers looks like G&W utilt almost.
Her down b being a mishmash means that it behaves completely differently. It looks to be a proximity trap that shoots vertically, which is not in any way comparable to the tree or the villager gyroid despite the thematic similarities.
90% of final smashes are functionally identical

Bottom line is I disagree

 

[Fane]

Up-Special: True
Lots of grabs are the same
His stick twirl is multi-hit, no? Hers looks like G&W utilt almost.
Her down b being a mishmash means that it behaves completely differently. It looks to be a proximity trap that shoots vertically, which is not in any way comparable to the tree or the villager gyroid despite the thematic similarities.
90% of final smashes are functionally identical

Bottom line is I disagree

I'm not saying she IS a Semi-Clone.

I'm saying she's closer to a Semi-Clone than anything we've seen so far, newcomer wise.

I agree she's a 'Luigified' semi-clone. She appears to have a different playstyle, but at first glance her moveset seems pretty similar to Villager's.

However, we've seen so little of her moveset, we can't say whether she's more Luigified or more semi-clone, it's just too early to tell. I believe we've not seen many of her tilts or aerials, have we? Up Smash isn't seen either. Just her specials, an aerial, some smashes, and a couple tilts I believe.

 

[Sudz]

I'm not saying she IS a Semi-Clone.

I'm saying she's closer to a Semi-Clone than anything we've seen so far, newcomer wise.

I agree she's a 'Luigified' semi-clone. She appears to have a different playstyle, but at first glance her moveset seems pretty similar to Villager's.

However, we've seen so little of her moveset, we can't say whether she's more Luigified or more semi-clone, it's just too early to tell. I believe we've not seen many of her tilts or aerials, have we? Up Smash isn't seen either. Just her specials, an aerial, some smashes, and a couple tilts I believe.

I suppose the disagreement comes with opinion on Luigi, then, because I think Luigi's moveset is different enough despite the obvious visual similarities that it no longer makes sense to call him a clone.

I made this post because of all the people I see saying "well, she's a semi-clone that's cool" when that doesn't make sense to me because when I hear semi clone I think Roy or Falco, which Isabelle is clearly far and away from.

 

[Mamp]

isabelle's up tilt isn't that similar to villager's. villager spins the stick above his head, isabelle sweeps the broom above her head in an arc, almost like marth's up tilt

 

[zferolie]

also the side tilt shown in one of the photos is not the same as Villagers

 

[Dreamking]

I wonder if she will use a bag of bells for one of her attacks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If they share any moves, and aren't an echo, they're a semi-clone. You can argue how "semi" a clone they are, but they're still a semi-clone.

 

[Mamp]

If they share any moves, and aren't an echo, they're a semi-clone. You can argue how "semi" a clone they are, but they're still a semi-clone.

idk about this bc how do you define what counts as 'sharing a move'? lucario's aura sphere and mewtwo's shadow ball have almost exactly the same animations and properties, but they certainly aren't semi-clones. fox and yoshi have basically the same up smash. bowser's fire breath and charizard's flamethrower are pretty much the same thing. the term 'semi-clone' is too vague anyway. from what we've seen of her, it's probably best to just think of isabelle as a unique character with a few similar moves to villager, like luigi to mario.

 

[Fell God]

Luigi has a lot of similar moves to Mario though, he doesn't have just "a few" similar moves. Up smash and down smash, side tilt (up tilt too as of Ultimate) neutral air, back air, up air, standard special (arguable), and even their jabs (except the last hit) are pretty similar. I don't know why Luigi keeps being brought up as this wholly unique character when he still has a lot in common with Mario. Heck, even most of their throws are identical.

 

[zferolie]

Luigi has a lot of similar moves to Mario though, he doesn't have just "a few" similar moves. Up smash and down smash, side tilt (up tilt too as of Ultimate) neutral air, back air, up air, standard special (arguable), and even their jabs (except the last hit) are pretty similar. I don't know why Luigi keeps being brought up as this wholly unique character when he still has a lot in common with Mario. Heck, even most of their throws are identical.

I think its more compair him to say Falco. Falco and fo pretty much have the same specials but different effects. Luigi has 2 totally different specials from Mario, and the other 2 work quite differently. I think that may be the difference., like Isabelle. we still don't know how many other moves they have different but so far the only moves that seem the same are the B, maybe the up B, the Nair, and kinda the down smash but the effect is completly different so I would argue its a different move. Oh and the throws seem to be the same

 

[Fell God]

I think its more compair him to say Falco. Falco and fo pretty much have the same specials but different effects. Luigi has 2 totally different specials from Mario, and the other 2 work quite differently. I think that may be the difference., like Isabelle. we still don't know how many other moves they have different but so far the only moves that seem the same are the B, maybe the up B, the Nair, and kinda the down smash but the effect is completly different so I would argue its a different move. Oh and the throws seem to be the same

I think you might have misunderstood, I was just talking about Luigi there.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I honestly feel like Chrom's more of a semi-clone than an echo. Whether Isabelle's a semi-clone or a unique fighter is debatable.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

If they share any moves, and aren't an echo, they're a semi-clone. You can argue how "semi" a clone they are, but they're still a semi-clone.

I mostly agree with this. We only need three categories: Echo, semi-clone, and unique. Isabelle is clearly in the semi-clone zone. She perhaps has some more unique attributes than some other semi-clones, but she's still a semi-clone.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I honestly feel like Chrom's more of a semi-clone than an echo. Whether Isabelle's a semi-clone or a unique fighter is debatable.

Yeah, that's why he shares almost all of his animations with Roy and is listed on the website as an ECHO FIGHTER, right? Because he's clearly not an echo.

 

[Bolshoi]

I don't think she's a semi-clone at all. She looks more different from Villager than Lucas does from Ness. She shares a scant few moves, but that's like saying Ike is a clone of Marth because they both use swords and have a counter.

 

[randy2dope]

she is a luigi for sure

 

[Koopaul]

Like another post points out there seem to be 4 levels of cloneness.

"Echoes" are obviously the most similar. (Ex: Daisy, Lucina, Dark Pit)
"Clones" share a lot of the same moves but are more different than echoes. (Dr. Mario, Young Link)
"Semi-Clones" are even more unique than clones, being a 50-50 type situation (Falco, Ganondorf)
Finally, I think we need a new term to describe a character who was clearly built off of another character but is more than a semi-clone. These are where Wolf and Isabelle are.

I elect "Branch-Off" because they branched off another fighter but became something very unique.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh, good. I was beginning to think that we werent the same community we once were.
But since we are arguing about the legitimacy of leakers, and the level of similarity between terms we decided were real in the community but are not actually real terms...
Good. I thought we grew up for a moment. *phew*

 

[Xebenkeck]

If she has a different fair and bair than villager the two will play nothing alike.

Id say she looks luigified if i were to put a term to it. Luigi Lucas Wolf are prob the best comparisons.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I would definitely put her at Wolf's level or even a bit above.

 

[SmashBro99]

Semiclone.

 

[Sudz]

Oh, good. I was beginning to think that we werent the same community we once were.
But since we are arguing about the legitimacy of leakers, and the level of similarity between terms we decided were real in the community but are not actually real terms...
Good. I thought we grew up for a moment. *phew*

Yeah, it's a well known fact that being condescending and sarcastically complaining about something as small as this discussion is the highest form of "growing up."

Fantastic observation. Thank you for your contribution. Time well spent. Keep fighting the good fight.

If they share any moves, and aren't an echo, they're a semi-clone. You can argue how "semi" a clone they are, but they're still a semi-clone.

K. Rool, Ike and Little Mac are now Marth semi clones because I feel like being pedantic

 

[Xigger]

Like another post points out there seem to be 4 levels of cloneness.

"Echoes" are obviously the most similar. (Ex: Daisy, Lucina, Dark Pit)
"Clones" share a lot of the same moves but are more different than echoes. (Dr. Mario, Young Link)
"Semi-Clones" are even more unique than clones, being a 50-50 type situation (Falco, Ganondorf)
Finally, I think we need a new term to describe a character who was clearly built off of another character but is more than a semi-clone. These are where Wolf and Isabelle are.

I elect "Branch-Off" because they branched off another fighter but became something very unique.

I don't see the community running away from the term "Luigified" anytime soon, but I would welcome it.

Also, I'm sure most of the echo/clone/newcomer debate could be cleared up with a simple side-by-side comparison video. Echoes borrow everything, even from multiple characters, clones have different traits like stats and size, and the semi-clones/Luigified clones have unique moves.