Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Arteen]

Stone Cold Sakurai's "FYI I'm still an Assist Trophy" post is going to sting if Isaac's an assist trophy again.

I'm not sure if I should be worried about Takumaru's assist trophy reveal. By all measures, an assist trophy role is still a huge improvement over what he got in Brawl. I don't think it has much bearing beyond Isaac having one less contender for the coveted "Other" representative slot (if such a thing even exists).

 

[Weavel]

Stone Cold Sakurai's "FYI I'm still an Assist Trophy" post is going to sting if Isaac's an assist trophy again.

I'm not sure if I should be worried about Takumaru's assist trophy reveal. By all measures, an assist trophy role is still a huge improvement over what he got in Brawl. I don't think it has much bearing beyond Isaac having one less contender for the coveted "Other" representative slot (if such a thing even exists).

I love how you signature lists the bad ending of said gameXD Also I hope we get him but we have nothing to go on. it was also one of my first titles I believe on my game boy advance.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If Isaac is still an AT, its quite likely he'll be announced on Friday. But we'll see.

I wouldn't mind seeing Felix confirmed as an Assist Trophy on Friday.

It would certainly get tongues wagging.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I wouldn't mind seeing Felix confirmed as an Assist Trophy on Friday.

It would certainly get tongues wagging.

If Felix is confirmed an AT, I think that outright confirm Isaac is playable. That said I doubt it, I don't think they'll show off an AT of a new franchise with a playable rep before a playable character from that franchise. Showing of an AT from an existing known franchise? Sure.

 

[Turmalinium]

I will support Isaac too!
Even though i want Felix more than Isaac, he is just more likely to get confirmed.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If Felix is confirmed an AT, I think that outright confirm Isaac is playable. That said I doubt it, I don't think they'll show off an AT of a new franchise with a playable rep before a playable character from that franchise. Showing of an AT from an existing known franchise? Sure.

Maybe, but this is Sakurai we're talking about. He makes up his own rules.

If Isaac is playable, I wouldn't be surprised if we at least got some really really vague teaser about it on Friday.

 

[BSTCloud]

Oh my god guys I saw today's POTD and I'm so scared
I'll hold to your words like they were the bible's, and believe everything will be okay.

Considering this friday is the first GS' anniversary, I'd say these two weeks will probably be the most crucial ones regarding Isaac. Whether it's for bad or good. The worst thing is that we can't predict absolutely nothing.
He could be revealed as an AT since GS's anniversary is close.
He could be revealed as a playable chracter for the same as above.
If he doesn't, he could still be a hidden character/AT.

Damn.

 

[Bassoonist]

Maybe, but this is Sakurai we're talking about. He makes up his own rules.

If Isaac is playable, I wouldn't be surprised if we at least got some really really vague teaser about it on Friday.

And that is what I'm hoping for, because I don't think he would be revealed as playable out of the blue like that. No newcomer has been revealed in a PoTD so far. So a hint on Friday would be the best thing!

 

[FalKoopa]

Well, Takamaru had only one NES game which was released nearly 30 years ago. Being an Assist Trophy is quite an achievement if you look at it that way.

I don't think it affects Isaac's chances, but the "FYI, I'm an Assist Trophy" line will sting if it's true.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, Takamaru had only one NES game which was released nearly 30 years ago. Being an Assist Trophy is quite an achievement if you look at it that way.

I don't think it affects Isaac's chances, but the "FYI, I'm an Assist Trophy" line will sting if it's true.

So did Ice Climbers, really.

 

[RPGatWill]

Looks like this weeks theme is assist trophies, really hoping that it's not isaac. The worst part is, the golden sun anniversary is THIS Friday. =(

Well if the golden Sun anniversary is this Friday, there's a small percentage increase that we'll hear about Issac's fate arounf then. No guarantees, mind you, but a chance nonetheless.

 

[FalKoopa]

So did Ice Climbers, really.

True. Though Ice Climber was at least released in the West. That's not the case for Takamaru (yet.)

 

[Spazzy_D]

So did Ice Climbers, really.

Ice Climbers was also a game bundled with the NES, so it would be more like if the Duck Hunt Dog got in.

The Takamaru assist reveal is a strange one for me. I wanted Takamaru as a playable characer, but at the same time I'm glad it was him over my two preferred new franchise swordsmen (being Shulk and Isaac.)

I also think that it is a significant upgrade for Taka in the franchise, as him and Dillon seem to be the most likely to take the Little Mac (and hopefully Isaac) route of Assist to playable.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

And that is what I'm hoping for, because I don't think he would be revealed as playable out of the blue like that. No newcomer has been revealed in a PoTD so far. So a hint on Friday would be the best thing!

Cue a picture of Golden Captain Falcon fighting Wii Fit Trainer shooting a Sun salutation.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Why?

Sakurai isn't consistent in these things... by this logic we should've kept getting like three characters a month after last winter...


Release is coming up, sure... but ATs aren't the only thing we've got an unrevealed backlog of... there are still several charactes, stages, Pokemon, etc. to be shown... why assume we'd only get ATs if an abundance of anything?

Yeah, I am hoping I am wrong in this regard.

 

[Electric Tuba]

How long do you guys think it'll take before we have a final roster list? I hope they don't troll us and not give us every character before release

Though I'd lose my **** if I thought Isaac was out of the game then saw a golden haired "a new challenger approaches!"

 

[Turmalinium]

How long do you guys think it'll take before we have a final roster list? I hope they don't troll us and not give us every character before release

Though I'd lose my **** if I thought Isaac was out of the game then saw a golden haired "a new challenger approaches!"

Since Sakurai stated that the newcomer videos are coming to an end, it would be better if we had some hidden chars, because that would mean we could get even more newcomers just without a video.

 

[Kind Dedede]

Since Sakurai stated that the newcomer videos are coming to an end, it would be better if we had some hidden chars, because that would mean we could get even more newcomers just without a video.

Unless they have a montage!

 

[Oddyesy]

So, Golden Sun anniversary coming up like others have said... What are the chances of something (good) happening?

 

[Bassoonist]

How long do you guys think it'll take before we have a final roster list? I hope they don't troll us and not give us every character before release

Though I'd lose my **** if I thought Isaac was out of the game then saw a golden haired "a new challenger approaches!"

Well lets see here...Did we not know the final Brawl roster by January 2008 (two months before release)? My memory as to exactly when we knew is hazy, but I believe it went like that.

However, that's not to say that the final roster will actually be leaked to us within a similar proximity this time around.

I recall the leaked roster having been thrown around before that point, but we got it confirmed by people who had the game early.

 

[N3ON]

Anniversaries (minus Smash ones) don't mean anything for character reveals afawk.

 

[Oddyesy]

Yeah, I suppose that's true. But hey, you never know.

 

[Altais]

Yikes, another AT homicide. Looks like Isaac dodged yet another arrow. Here's hoping he makes it out of the abattoir unscathed.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yikes, another AT homicide. Looks like Isaac dodged yet another arrow. Here's hoping he makes it out of the abattoir unscathed.

We've only got one AT so far. We won't know for sure if there's an extensive AT kill off until we get more updates. Unless you just mean one single AT, but yeah.

Anniversaries (minus Smash ones) don't mean anything for character reveals afawk.

Anniversaries sometimes get character reveals.

 

[N3ON]

Anniversaries sometimes get character reveals.

Who? Peach? I'm inclined to think, given the complete absence of a mention to do with any anniversary, that was a coincidence.

Mac? That was during a Direct, and I doubt something as important as a worldwide Direct gets scheduled on one region's anniversary purposely - with again no mention of anything anniversary related.

The only one who got an anniversary mention was Lucario, and that was Smash's anniversary.

 

[Electric Tuba]

Wasn't Ness revealed in either 64 or Melee on Mother 2's anniversary?

 

[N3ON]

Wasn't Ness revealed in either 64 or Melee on Mother 2's anniversary?

wat?

I don't think any of us know when exactly any of the 64 characters were revealed... not even ChronoBound.

And Ness was revealed for Melee at E3 2001 along with the rest of the starting roster (minus Zelda).

 

[Electric Tuba]

I must have remembered incorrectly again, then
Must have been since the 25th anniversary of Mother was yesterday...

 

[Bassoonist]

I must have remembered incorrectly again, then
Must have been since the 25th anniversary of Mother was yesterday...

Yeah, and so many people were dead-set on Ness being revealed this last update for that reason.

We see where that got them...

 

[Skyblade12]

Hey, I just found the support threads for hopefuls. I thought I might as well chip in my view on how one of my favorite characters might play. Rather than Psynergy, I thought to focus on a Djinn build.


Specials:
Forward B: Venus Djinn. Unleashes a random Venus Djinn to attack. Includes Geode, Flint, Echo, Sap, Steel, and Bane.

These focus on forward attacks that deal damage. The Djinn is summoned above and before Isaac, and swings down with his blade for the strike. The Djinn summoned will determine slight additional effects, such as mild poison or HP recovery, or just more damage.


Down B: Mars Djinn. Unleashes a random Mars Djinn to attack. Includes Fever, Scorch, Torch, Char, Shine, and Fury.

These focus on AOE fire attacks around Isaac. Which Djinn is summoned determines some minor effects, with Shine giving a similar debuff to the traditional flower rod hits, maybe some other minor harassment.


Up B: Jupiter Djinn. Unleashes a random Jupiter Djinn to recover. These include Kite, Gasp, Waft, Whorl, Lull, and Zephyr.

These are recovery moves, with the Djinn blowing Isaac up. Aesthetics may change (I imagine Kite may give him an extra jump), but recovery amount should be near identical.


Neutral B: Summon. Summons Djinn back to Isaac. Power of move depends on number of unleashed Djinn.



Essentially, this Isaac would play as a rotation. You would unleash Djinn with each move. Each time you use a special, the Djinn unleashed becomes unavailable, until eventually you can't perform that special anymore. You see the Djinn floating as little colored dots around Isaac, with color matching the element.

As you unleash more and more Djinn, Isaac's attacks become weaker, and he becomes lighter.

However, when you use Summon, the number of Djinn you have on standby translate into a summon that does extensive damage and restores Isaac's strength. The AOE, exact effect of the summon, etcetera, are all controlled by how many Djinn he has on standby, as summons were managed in Golden Sun. So, while dropping all your Djinn is incredibly risky, since you become one of the weakest and lightest members of the cast, it lets you unleash an incredibly powerful summon.

Unfortunately, Mercury Djinn are left out, but their theme is healing anyway, so it's harder to work them in well.


Thoughts?

 

[Oddyesy]

Hey, I just found the support threads for hopefuls. I thought I might as well chip in my view on how one of my favorite characters might play. Rather than Psynergy, I thought to focus on a Djinn build.


Specials:
Forward B: Venus Djinn. Summons a random Venus Djinn to attack. Includes Geode, Flint, Echo, Sap, Steel, and Bane.

These focus on forward attacks that deal damage. The Djinn is summoned above and before Isaac, and swings down with his blade for the strike. The Djinn summoned will determine slight additional effects, such as mild poison or HP recovery, or just more damage.


Down B: Mars Djinn. Summons a random Mars Djinn to attack. Includes Fever, Scorch, Torch, Char, Shine, and Fury.

These focus on AOE fire attacks around Isaac. Which Djinn is summoned determines some minor effects, with Shine giving a similar debuff to the traditional flower rod hits, maybe some other minor harassment.


Up B: Jupiter Djinn. Summons a random Jupiter Djinn to recover. These include Kite, Gasp, Waft, Whorl, Lull, and Zephyr.

These are recovery moves, with the Djinn blowing Isaac up. Aesthetics may change (I imagine Kite may give him an extra jump), but recovery amount should be near identical.


Neutral B: Summon. Summons Djinn back to Isaac. Power of move depends on number of unleashed Djinn.



Essentially, this Isaac would play as a rotation. You would summon out Djinn with each move. Each time you use a special, the Djinn summoned becomes unavailable, until eventually you can't perform that special anymore. You see the Djinn floating as little colored dots around Isaac, with color matching the element.

As you unleash more and more Djinn, Isaac's attacks become weaker, and he becomes lighter.

However, when you use Summon, the number of Djinn you have on standby translate into a summon that does extensive damage and restores Isaac's strength. The AOE, exact effect of the summon, etcetera, are all controlled by how many Djinn he has on standby, as summons were managed in Golden Sun. So, while dropping all your Djinn is incredibly risky, since you become one of the weakest and lightest members of the cast, it lets you unleash an incredibly powerful summon.

Unfortunately, Mercury Djinn are left out, but their theme is healing anyway, so it's harder to work them in well.


Thoughts?

First thought: There are a lot of "random" elements in here that might make Isaac confusing and hard to play as. How exactly would the summons work? Would they be controlled by how many Djinni are on standby overall or how many of each type are on standby? Would there be a "recovery period" for Djinn after a summon like in the games? How would you tell which effect you obtained from the move? The idea is cool, though.

 

[Raetah]

Guys pls... Djinns are not summoned...

 

[Skyblade12]

First thought: There are a lot of "random" elements in here that might make Isaac confusing and hard to play as. How exactly would the summons work? Would they be controlled by how many Djinni are on standby overall or how many of each type are on standby? Would there be a "recovery period" for Djinn after a summon like in the games? How would you tell which effect you obtained from the move? The idea is cool, though.

I was hoping that the randomness would be offset by the relatively minor effects. For example, if you hit someone with Geode, it does slightly more damage, but if you hit them with Bane, it does more damage over time. Steel and Sap heal a little HP, but do less damage. So it balances out to be nearly the same.

Since Mars deals with a lot of haze/stun effects, I figure there would be minor harassment effects like shield break, flower effect, or increased hitstun.

I wanted the Djinn to be different, but not really in a way that changes gameplay enough to be worried about. You should be able to tell by visuals, but it wouldn't be something you really have to worry about, especially since your recoveries would be nearly, if not completely, identical.


The Summons I figure would work based on both number and kind. Mostly based on number, but let the game notice if you have all Venus or whatever. That's a tweaking detail.


Also, no, I wasn't thinking of having a recovery time, because I think that would overcomplicate and cripple the character, especially since tweak time for how long recovery lasts would be a nightmare to refine.

Guys pls... Djinns are not summoned...

Fixed, thanks.

 

[Oddyesy]

Guys pls... Djinns are not summoned...

We never said they were wat

EDIT: Oh. I think he means in a general sense.

I was hoping that the randomness would be offset by the relatively minor effects. For example, if you hit someone with Geode, it does slightly more damage, but if you hit them with Bane, it does more damage over time. Steel and Sap heal a little HP, but do less damage. So it balances out to be nearly the same.

Since Mars deals with a lot of haze/stun effects, I figure there would be minor harassment effects like shield break, flower effect, or increased hitstun.

I wanted the Djinn to be different, but not really in a way that changes gameplay enough to be worried about. You should be able to tell by visuals, but it wouldn't be something you really have to worry about, especially since your recoveries would be nearly, if not completely, identical.


The Summons I figure would work based on both number and kind. Mostly based on number, but let the game notice if you have all Venus or whatever. That's a tweaking detail.

Perhaps. I myself am fond of using a special to switch out Djinn to change your moves, but hey. Sounds pretty cool otherwise.

 

[Skyblade12]

We never said they were wat



Perhaps. I myself am fond of using a special to switch out Djinn to change your moves, but hey. Sounds pretty cool otherwise.

The biggest problem I see with my set is that Isaac Kirby would be kind of useless. Yours sounds like it would at least give him some play.

But the Set-Standby-Summon rotation was a huge part of Golden Sun's gameplay (I used it far more than I did Psynergy in combat), and I would like to see it brought in somehow. I'm not sure how you could have both a summoning and Psynergy based character, there just aren't enough commands.



Still, I can see shifting Djinn with neutral-B, and that changing how your attacks play out (adding different effects or strengths). Summoning would then work for Final Smash.

 

[Oddyesy]

The biggest problem I see with my set is that Isaac Kirby would be kind of useless. Yours sounds like it would at least give him some play.

But the Set-Standby-Summon rotation was a huge part of Golden Sun's gameplay (I used it far more than I did Psynergy in combat), and I would like to see it brought in somehow. I'm not sure how you could have both a summoning and Psynergy based character, there just aren't enough commands.



Still, I can see shifting Djinn with neutral-B, and that changing how your attacks play out (adding different effects or strengths). Summoning would then work for Final Smash.

Honestly, I'd prefer a Psynergy based character since that would allow for a bigger range and more types of moves since just having a Djinn come out and do whatever would get old visually IMO, unless I'm missing the point completely LOL.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Honestly, I'd prefer a Psynergy based character since that would allow for a bigger range and more types of moves since just having a Djinn come out and do whatever would get old visually IMO, unless I'm missing the point completely LOL.

Personally, I like the idea of Isaac using Venus Djinn in his Specials, and have his standards be 90% Psynergy, even his Grab, with only a few sword attacks. That, I think, would represent Isaac the best. Djinn are a major aspect of Golden Sun, almost as important as Psynergy.

 

[Electric Tuba]

A few people have mentioned the djinn based moveset, I even posted an idea about charges based on djinn a few pages back.

The biggest problem with unleashing djinn for summons is that it gets complicated fast. In my post about building up charges, a max of two with four possible elements is already 10 different combinations. I don't think he should be based completely around djinn, but they could be effectively incorporated into a couple of moves discretely (can't think of the right word).

 

[BSTCloud]

I think random properties to attacks, and, even more, random attacks assigned to a button is not a good idea. It makes them unfun since you may be expecting a certain one to appear for the next strike and not getting it may result in frustration due to the game's internal RNG not giving you what you want, like mr game's and watch hammer special. That sucks and I would not like Isaac getting that kind of hate

How about this:
If you want to give Isaac different kind of moves with different elements, what about using venus psinergy in his normal smash attacks (A button ones), and have the specials for mars and mercury ones for example.

Resulting in:
-He'd always have venus psinergy in his arsenal.
-Down B special would exchange the current "assigned" dijinn (having a tiny dijinn float around isaac or an aura of a certain color is a nice way to distinguish which one you have equipped right now), similar to how Phoenix Wright's modes work in UMvC3, and depending on which dijinn you have assigned, your up B, normal B and side B have different attacks (blizzards or flames).

Rough idea, but is another possible interpretation of the character

 

[Skyblade12]

A few people have mentioned the djinn based moveset, I even posted an idea about charges based on djinn a few pages back.

The biggest problem with unleashing djinn for summons is that it gets complicated fast. In my post about building up charges, a max of two with four possible elements is already 10 different combinations.

This only matters if the different summons function differently. Which they don't. Judgement, Thor, Boreas, and Meteor are all identical except for element, and Smash Bros. lacks elemental weaknesses. So you have different looking attacks that function identically. Not too hard, and you can reduce the visual differences when porting them to Smash.

At that point the only real complexity becomes managing raw numbers. Which Djinn you have set is unimportant, but how many total you have set is. Which, since it slowly weakens him, is something to monitor closely.

I don't think he should be based completely around djinn, but they could be effectively incorporated into a couple of moves discretely (can't think of the right word).

I can't really think of a way to do that. It's like Robin's tomes. The Djinn rotation is a pretty core mechanic. In fact, I'd say that the Djinn and the ability to use spells for utility out of combat are the two mechanics that differentiate Golden Sun from every other JRPG.

I think random properties to attacks, and, even more, random attacks assigned to a button is not a good idea. It makes them unfun since you may be expecting a certain one to appear for the next strike and not getting it may result in frustration due to the game's internal RNG not giving you what you want, like mr game's and watch hammer special. That sucks and I would not like Isaac getting that kind of hate

Fair enough. What if we pulled the unique nature of each Djinn, but kept the core mechanic?

Venus (Side B) is a sword attack
with buffed hit boxes and damage, inspired by Echo and Flint.

Mars is AOE damage around Isaac, in the form of spreading fire, inspired by Fever and Fury.

Jupiter is recovery, the Djinn either blowing Isaac into the air or enhancing his jump, inspired by Whorl and Waft.

Still can't figure out a good way to put in Mercury.

How about this:
If you want to give Isaac different kind of moves with different elements, what about using venus psinergy in his normal smash attacks (A button ones), and have the specials for mars and mercury ones for example.

Resulting in:
-He'd always have venus psinergy in his arsenal.
-Down B special would exchange the current "assigned" dijinn (having a tiny dijinn float around isaac or an aura of a certain color is a nice way to distinguish which one you have equipped right now), similar to how Phoenix Wright's modes work in UMvC3, and depending on which dijinn you have assigned, your up B, normal B and side B have different attacks (blizzards or flames).

Rough idea, but is another possible interpretation of the character

It would work, I suppose. I'd give him weapon unleashes for his smash attacks, I think.