Is Young Link Underrated?

[Rosy]

Alright. Ill maybe try to find video of myself to show you. I could use some critque.

 

[SlimStealthy]

Why is Mario above YL on the tier list..? what does he have that we dont?

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Why is Mario above YL on the tier list..? what does he have that we dont?

Mario can actually be pretty good. Look up on youtube Mango's Mario. I understand that Mango is displaying a much more optimized version of Mario than we see of Young Link, as he is of a different caliber of player than Axe (Armada didn't really optimize Young Link imo), but you'll see that Mario has comboes Young Link just doesn't. And it's sad to say, but his moves worth using are faster than ours or have better hitboxes as well. Sure we camp better, but he has kill moves that are reasonable enough to land and don't require high percent edgeguards (although edgeguards are important with Mario, he sets them up easier than we do). He also has a better throw game.

Our moves are also generally less safe than his as well: as a result, Young Link is much easier to (bait and) punish than Mario is, and Mario has better options OOS as well.

 

[Rosy]

Mario can actually be pretty good. Look up on youtube Mango's Mario. I understand that Mango is displaying a much more optimized version of Mario than we see of Young Link, as he is of a different caliber of player than Axe (Armada didn't really optimize Young Link imo), but you'll see that Mario has comboes Young Link just doesn't. And it's sad to say, but his moves worth using are faster than ours or have better hitboxes as well. Sure we camp better, but he has kill moves that are reasonable enough to land and don't require high percent edgeguards (although edgeguards are important with Mario, he sets them up easier than we do). He also has a better throw game.

Our moves are also generally less safe than his as well: as a result, Young Link is much easier to (bait and) punish than Mario is, and Mario has better options OOS as well.

I just want to say that there are a lot of thinks Young Link mains dont optimize which make him a lower tier then he actually should be.

For instance:
Young Link has a pretty decent gimp game (especially that against spacies).

Also, Young Link can make relatively safe moves if people learn how to use them. Run in fade away far>jab or u tilt covers all options depending on which moves you do and how fast you can react.

Also I was thinking about this and somebody can try and prove me wrong, but in theory Young Link should be one of the highest tiers just based off of his tech chase grab game that so many Young Links dont utilize. If somebody could play Young Link perfectly everytime, he should be able to tech chase grab all the way to 150%. then a down smash would kill with enough bomb or sheild pressure. Obviously some characters have really good tech rolls (like peach), but the most of the cast (and especially the characters with terrible tech rolls) should easily be tech chased.

also, Young link has insane tech that mario or most of the cast for that matter, simply does not.
----
In any case I do think Young Link deserves to be higher on the tier list, but probably not higher than mario.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I just want to say that there are a lot of thinks Young Link mains dont optimize which make him a lower tier then he actually should be.

... in theory Young Link should be one of the highest tiers just based off of his tech chase grab game that so many Young Links dont utilize. If somebody could play Young Link perfectly everytime, he should be able to tech chase grab all the way to 150%. then a down smash would kill with enough bomb or sheild pressure. Obviously some characters have really good tech rolls (like peach), but the most of the cast (and especially the characters with terrible tech rolls) should easily be tech chased.

As far as tech chasing goes, yes, tech chases are generally guaranteed if you play perfectly, but I don't believe that his dthrow is a tech chase on every character. At a certain percent they will be able to get out of it with a nair or double jump or whatever, as it's not like Fox's and Falco's where they actually chuck them to the ground. YL's bounces them up first. But it should be a load of damage on Falcon, Fox and Falco.

 

[Rosy]

I don't have any older matches. I'll get a recording of me playing against the Ganon as soon as possible.

I ws able to record a match.
This is me against my friends fox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs55_NdUiwk

The match was not of the highest level but there are a lot of good things that you can take away.
Hope you enjoy!

 

[Laijin]

Alright, then I guess I would say what is your stance on these matchups:
luigi
mario/doc
icies
link
ganon

these are characters I never get to play against and would like to hear some kind of strategy against them.

You camp the hell out of all of them. They have no answers for your camping game(except Link can camp you back. Watch me vs J666). If you get grabbed by icies you REALLY REALLY ****ed up and you should beat that into your head.

 

[Rosy]

You camp the hell out of all of them. They have no answers for your camping game(except Link can camp you back. Watch me vs J666). If you get grabbed by icies you REALLY REALLY ****ed up and you should beat that into your head.

I heard if you get grabbed by icies (at low percents) you DI toward so they dont get the re grab. But ya f*** icies and their grab game.

 

[TriNewton]

Small tip for you guys since I haven't seen it here yet.

If a spacie is side-B'ing to the ledge and you're right next to the ledge, it is incredibly simple to just drop an arrow down right in front of their flight path, popping them up perfectly for a free down smash.

 

[Laijin]

I heard if you get grabbed by icies (at low percents) you DI toward so they dont get the re grab. But ya f*** icies and their grab game.

lol yeah if you get grabbed by icies as YL its 100% your fault and you SHOULD feel bad about it lol.

Small tip for you guys since I haven't seen it here yet.

If a spacie is side-B'ing to the ledge and you're right next to the ledge, it is incredibly simple to just drop an arrow down right in front of their flight path, popping them up perfectly for a free down smash.

Interesting. I'll try that out.

 

[Rosy]

Small tip for you guys since I haven't seen it here yet.

If a spacie is side-B'ing to the ledge and you're right next to the ledge, it is incredibly simple to just drop an arrow down right in front of their flight path, popping them up perfectly for a free down smash.

Wouldn't it be faster to jab>jab (similar to Marth). I understand why boomrang would be slower but I feel like the smartest option is if the spacie is falling to try and illusion onto stage you would throw the boomrang straight or slightly up to try and catch them in their firefox. Then, if you some how miss from the boomrang it means they are slightly under or over where you palced the boomrang.

This is where an arrow would not work because a firefox has more priority over an arrow.

In any case, I feel like the arrow hitbox doesn't stay out as long and doesn't cover as many options as a boomrang would. But you should record your self doing it so I can better understand what you're saying.

 

[TriNewton]

I can't record, but I can explain it more clearly!

If a spacie tries to SWEETSPOT the ledge with side-B- (This is the crucial detail I left out)- then you can drop an arrow down and follow up with a down smash.

I understand why boomrang would be slower but I feel like the smartest option is if the spacie is falling to try and illusion onto stage you would throw the boomrang straight or slightly up to try and catch them in their firefox.

I do not understand this.

 

[Laijin]

Its very difficult to hit a space animal with boomerang out of their side b if their in the middle of it. You can do it on the start up animations, but if they are mid illusion the boomerang will just clank against the hitbox. Its kinda lame...arrows seem to work though

 

[TriNewton]

Awesome! My technique is (kinda) Laijin approved!

 

[JANKX]

Young Link is the best character in the game, second to n0ne:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iglL1bVNqT0

 

[ihasabuket]

Wouldn't it be faster to jab>jab (similar to Marth). I understand why boomrang would be slower but I feel like the smartest option is if the spacie is falling to try and illusion onto stage you would throw the boomrang straight or slightly up to try and catch them in their firefox. Then, if you some how miss from the boomrang it means they are slightly under or over where you palced the boomrang.

This is where an arrow would not work because a firefox has more priority over an arrow.

In any case, I feel like the arrow hitbox doesn't stay out as long and doesn't cover as many options as a boomrang would. But you should record your self doing it so I can better understand what you're saying.

Depends on how much you charge the arrow actually, If it does over 8% of the upb hitbox itl outprioritize. As for the arrow sideb edgeguard, i think youre better off doing a dtilt or downsmash.

On a side note i saw your match and have some suggestion, there were times where you read the up b and threw a boomerang hit him and then waited like at 1:55. You should do the boomerang edgeguard SAUS does, ill post a link.
https://gfycat.com/MessyColdAnkole
Firefox doesnt have a hitbox at the beginning of the startup so itl hit him out of it if you hit early enough so once you get the read on the first hit just throw the boomerang lower. Also i think you need to mix up your aerials when approaching, you use nair too much. You also use dash attack too much, I think its only good to use it when tech chasing or comboing when theyre a bit too far and low to hit with an aerial.

 

[ihasabuket]

Its very difficult to hit a space animal with boomerang out of their side b if their in the middle of it. You can do it on the start up animations, but if they are mid illusion the boomerang will just clank against the hitbox. Its kinda lame...arrows seem to work though

Actually the hitbox for side b comes after they have traveled the distance which means if its clanking you threw it too late.

 

[Rosy]

Everybody, check out a new tech I found with Young Link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3n6ch9/newish_tech_zair_cancels_on_the_ledge/

Both vids are posted in the link.

 

[Rosy]

Heres some new YL tech for ya guys

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3n6qfi/newish_tech_zair_edge_cancels/

 

[Benny P]

Heres some new YL tech for ya guys

https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/3n6qfi/newish_tech_zair_edge_cancels/

woah

will that work in PAL?

 

[Rosy]

I dont see why it wouldnt? I will try it out next time

 

[Rosy]

Can we talk about application for Young Links empty hop?

I feel like he has a long cool down so its hard to catch characters when you dont have a bomb.

Also, any advice on how to catch characters about to approach you with a jab? Ive recently realized Young Links jab isnt too bad and its quite useful locking down characters in their shield. But characters like fox are harder to lock down, so is there even any application for the jab against him?