is Yoshi doomed to be average at best?

[shazbot]

Now first, let me be clear: i love yosh. with his gnarly eggs and stuff you can do with his second jump, yoshi is a blast to play. That being said, yoshi is not even close to top tier for a number of reasons. This got me to thinking. Since yoshi is already (sorta) confirmed for brawl, is it possible for nintendo to change yoshi from good to great? I mean without radically changing his moveset there really isn't that much hope for yoshi to be a top contender in smash. Why? I just feel like they design some characters with mediocracy in mind. You can't have ultra pwn characters without sucky ones to compare them to, and i'm just mad that yoshi will always be designed to be an O.K. character

 

[Diddy Kong]

I got no doubt that Yoshi won't have a 3rd jump again in this game. That's one of his biggest weaknesses, and his slow grabs. PAL Yoshi actually is a pretty decent fighter, and there are some real good Yoshi players in the PAL regions.

But perhaps they could give Yoshi multiple jumps? It wouldn't really look weird, since he also does them sorta in Yoshi's Island DS. Add a little weight with that and he'll be fine.

 

[Mic_128]

Things could be tweaked around, but he's pretty balanced as is.

 

[Kerocola]

Hmm, I don't really think Nintendo makes anyone purposely bad or good, they try to make all characters good. It's just what you find out later on in the game, and who turns out to be better. If that was true, I think we'd see Mario as a really awesome, insane character. I think they just put in a moveset, test it out, next. Then again, I'm not from Nintendo so I'm assuming(we all know what happens when we do that, right?)

Average is better than horrible. I know for sure some Yoshi players could beat my Fox some time around, and he is a good character. I like to play Yoshi, "blast to play" is a perfect description(I am horrible with Yoshi, however, so I use that for horrible competition)but I don't imagine Yoshi would get worse, and we've got some crazy good Yoshi players...I doubt he'll be better. He's not bad at all in Melee, so I'm doubting he'll get worse by a lot. Or better...but you should experiment with Yoshi. Unexpected style of play can confuse your opponents and you could find out some nice moves with Yoshi.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Yoshi deserves to use his 2nd jump at least twice, even if it has only 2/3 of the height.

 

[shazbot]

Well Mic, that's what i mean, yoshi isn't really that bad in any aspect. The problem is he isn't very strong in any either. It would take ALOT of tweaking to make yoshi one of the best characters around and i dont think it's going to happen.


And Kaz, i wouldn't want them to give yoshi a 3rd jump. For better or worse, that's what makes yoshi yoshi

 

[Rob_Gambino]

If Yoshi could do anything out of his shield (jump, wavedash, etc) he would be high to mid tier I believe. If they could help the grab speed and lag at all that would help as well. Perhaps he will get some broken Side B move in brawl, you never know, lol.

 

[TheManaLord]

Jumping out of his shield is all he needs to be amazing.

Seriously =/

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Yoshi's balanced. That's his problem.

All the top tiers in Melee, heck even a bunch of the mid tiers, are about as balanced as a paraplegic on a tight-rope. The same applies for most fighting games.

Unless Yoshi gets broken stuff, yeah, he's doomed to mediocrity.

 

[FSLMJM]

Yoshi is an above average character for me. I think he may stay the same or get tweaked to be better because I hear people say he's junk or low tier

 

[Shadow Wolf TJC]

Personally, Yoshi could use a great resistance to damage if they decide to implement varying degrees of damage resistance to different characters in Brawl. Otherwise, his moves would need some improvement in terms of attack speed and power. And finally, there's his Super Smash Power which we haven't seen yet... (I'm still not sure what it's supposed to be called)

 

[Chief Mendez]

@Shadow Wolf TJC: When does Snake say that?

On topic=1. Make Yoshi's tongue (grab) longer, 2. make his B move less of an 'annoyance' move and more of an actual move that's worth anything other than hoping you'll poop an opponent of the edge, 3. increase his thrown egg's knockback, and have them only pop upon contact.

Now just tweak him a bit (slightly longer shield-roll, tiny strength increase, a bit more weight), and he'd actually be played on a regular basis.

 

[Iggy K]

Jumping out of his shield is all he needs to be amazing.

Seriously =/

This.

And make his grabs faster, have less lag and more reach (Marth and Roy having better grab reach than Yoshi's tongue, seriously, wtf).

 

[Fawriel]

Hmm, PAL indeed. It's weird, I always thought that Yoshi was designed to be an almost perfect fighter with some strange weaknesses to even it out. In PAL, he's significantly heavier and his smashes are really powerful. Add to that his many combo moves and moves that are even combos themselves ( dair, bair ), funky stuff like the fixed distance d-tilt... Yoshi is quite awesome. It's just the strangely useless grab, the vulnerability due to lack of third jump and the inability to jump out of the shield that make him weak compared to the uber competition.

To address another point, I wouldn't complain about Yoshi being designed as mediocre. Considering that he's not extremely popular and was always more of a noble steed than a knight in shining armor and that he's more or less just one of thousands of cute dinosaurs, I'd say he got away quite well with the strengths he has.

 

[HiddenTiger]

It's kinda sad to see that in a Smash community so over saturated with Marths, Sheiks, and Foxes, any character that's not broken beyond all fairness is considered 'just average' or 'mediocre.' I think Yoshi is perfect the way he is. They don't need to break every character, they need to fix the ones that are broken.

 

[Tera253]

^truth be told. ^
~Tera253~

 

[Spirit_Fox]

I am completly agree with the topic creator.... yoshi needs a boost up

 

[shazbot]

You're right Fawriel,and it would be nice if all the characters could be played competitively, but some characters just don't lend themselves to this level of play. Nintendo does a great job making all the characters fun and acessible to the people who just pick up and play smash, but tourney style playing definitely favors some characters and discourages others. It sux because i've been playing yoshi since 64, but now i've picked up playing peach for real matches because picking yoshi is a disadvantage.yes, i've seen fumi, Svampen pwns, and Bringer plays a yoshi from hell, but in the end yoshi doesn't have as much potential as higher tier characters.

oops mini wall of text :<

 

[Zarasai]

to fix this, buff or nerf everybody to yoshi's level.


than we'd have a really balanced smash :D

which'd be a nice change

 

[Fawriel]

Erm, no, not quite.

It's kinda sad to see that in a Smash community so over saturated with Marths, Sheiks, and Foxes, any character that's not broken beyond all fairness is considered 'just average' or 'mediocre.'

Amen to this. Even Link or Donkey Kong are considered horrible characters... hell, even Ganondorf is called that sometimes. Those are some of the most balanced characters ever! The only reason why using them in tournaments would probably spell an automatic loss is because everyone uses the broken guys.

 

[Ghost42]

I am curious as to how many people would be willing to replace the Egg Throw with a traditional third jump, although if Yoshi did have a third jump his second would probably be reduced considerably.

I could see Yoshi's tier rank raising a fair amount, however I think I would prefer the Egg Throw.

 

[Fawriel]

Easy - give him a decent side-b for recovering.

 

[shazbot]

yoshi's second jump isn't his biggest problem and his egg throw is one of his better abilities. A decent side-b recovery move would be nice....actually any decent side move at all would be nice

 

[notftomearth7]

Just like any character in any fighting game, you must master him/her until you can make the best of them. That's why people have tier people!

Anyhow, depending on how masterfull you are with Yoshi, it depends on what YOU think is average. I say this because the beauty of Smash Bros is the ability to make combos and if you can effectively make combos, that is most likely your best character. Unless their is a character purposely implanted in a game with a complete inability to hit a combo, there's no such thing as "Average"

 

[NomoG006]

I think Yoshi is fine. Every character has its strengths and weaknesses. I actually kick alot of a** with Yoshi. He's my primary character. But in order to keep up with the typical characters, such as Fox or C. Falcon, I use Falco.

what is a "broken character"

 

[MarsBitrona]

It wouldn't take a whole lot to make Yoshi more playable. A new side-B, more power for the down-B and the basic ability to jump out of a shield is all you really need. Or maybe they'll just give him a whole new move set. Either way, I'm almost certain he'll play better in Brawl.

 

[strider43]

Yoshi should have some secret about him thats all. Me and my brother always say that pink yoshi's air attacks have the most priority in the entire game, and then I kick his but with falco. One three three sleven broz -.-

 

[Framerate]

Jump outta shield. That's all I want. That's all he needs.

OK, maybe a better side B.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Yoshi is Yoshi.

If anything, he needs to be towned down becuase of that.

 

[greenblob]

Yoshi's recovery is fine (well, kinda...his laggy fair hurts it a bit). Let Yoshi be able to jump out of his shield and reduce some startup lag on his aerials and he'll be perfect.