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is there anyway to improve olimar's recover?

JJBro1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
304
Location
Sacramento
Everytime im knocked off of the edge all my brother would have to do is edgehog and im done since olimars only recovery is his tether recovery, I just picked up olimar the other day and i was wondering if there was any discovery to get to the edge other than his tether recovery
 

SKEET SHADY

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
396
Location
Lansing, MI
if your close enough, you can u-air them off the edge and then grab it for yourself. you can watch me do it on youtube, type in skeet vs, im too lazy to post the thread for it here=p
 

Pyronic_Star

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,549
Location
maryland
get close and hit them with f-air or u-air or throw a purple pikmin at them..... i.e. make sure ur whistle count is on white if ur at high damage.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
Alright, I just got back from the biggest tourney that I've ever been too...I came to the realization that Olly is officially my favorite character in the game but he has a serious flaw. I'm going to test some recovery tactics today to see if there is a trick. So far I have found a couple.

1) You want to get to a purple pikmin which involves the whistle - its very important to know what whistle you are on. If you whistle while falling it speeds momentum, a very bad thing - so the trick is. If you are one whistle away from a purple. JUMP and DOWN B at the same time - very important - then throw the purple and wait till they are off the edge and then up b.

2) The one that is most often referred to. Get close enough to attack them and do either a up air or fair and then grab the edge - this is best if you have the opportunity to hit them. Be careful of bairs from the edgehogging opponent!

3) The newest addition VERY SOLID AGAINST OPPONENTS WITH HIGH DAMAGE. Save your second jump and don't throw any pikmin. Go to a position where you normally would recover. My favorite one is simply at about 10 degrees off from just below your opponent. Now jump and do your down b which is hard for the opponent to read - they will assume you are doing the up b and are afraid of dying. If you timed this right and have 5-6 pikmin, now you should be able to grab the ledge.

I am going to do a huge amount of testing to find a new strat for this - b/c I believe that we are missing some technique to help olly's recovery. If I find one, I'll make a guide for all edge recovery's to help out.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
heh, shrink, no need to waste your second jump during a recovery to whistle.... you can easily get 1-2 fairs off to get to purples to toss them as well, which i find most olimars dont do for some reason and think that they can only whistle to switch their line up while recovering.

Additionally, if you hit hard air dodge immediately and if you know your lineup you can start your rearrangements while your stille being hit back after the air dodge. If it's largely horizontal, you can air dodge and attempt to up+b while passing the ledge and autosnap back on.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
heh, shrink, no need to waste your second jump during a recovery to whistle.... you can easily get 1-2 fairs off to get to purples to toss them as well, which i find most olimars dont do for some reason and think that they can only whistle to switch their line up while recovering.

Additionally, if you hit hard air dodge immediately and if you know your lineup you can start your rearrangements while your stille being hit back after the air dodge. If it's largely horizontal, you can air dodge and attempt to up+b while passing the ledge and autosnap back on.
What I discovered though at this tourney is that the higher level people who olly's recovery well - Just remember that one of the options is to use the jump to down b - I prefer this option because it allows you to keep a high number of pikmin - that way when you go for a fair or uair you can wait for the edge to clear and still catch. I think every recovery should be different for olly.
 

Pyronic_Star

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,549
Location
maryland
ok, this doesn't really help, its more of a question.... but can anyone think of any far out there idea that may be able to trick the game or something and allow the up-b to come back?
well obviously no one has..... cus its not posted lol.... but i'm thinking (as someone previously has said) there has to be something we're missing or some way to avoid this gimp or a glitch or somtehing. this could just be a fantasy of mine....... but if pit can do the infinite jump thing.... there has to be a way for us to find something for olimar.......... i'm just thinking we have to try random things whenever anyone gets a chance
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
You have no idea how long I have been looking for a trick to either stall midair movement or get an extra up b glitch...so far nothing...but if we can find one, I think olly would go to a whole new level...
 

Pyronic_Star

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,549
Location
maryland
i'm pretty sure u don't........ but do u get a jump back if u r hit while u r super armoring a move?

random thought, but does anyone know how b-sticking works fully? all i remember mainnly was seeing a lucas move backwards while doing it.... i was wondering, how is olimar's b-sticking? and can it be done while recovering? random thought....... but if so, does that mean that u could use the pikmin throw as a means of recovering? similar to ssbm mario with his cape.... or ssbm marth with his foward b

someone that knows more about b-sticking propeties please get back to me on this
 

Fredd

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Just ask!
i'm pretty sure u don't........ but do u get a jump back if u r hit while u r super armoring a move?

random thought, but does anyone know how b-sticking works fully? all i remember mainnly was seeing a lucas move backwards while doing it.... i was wondering, how is olimar's b-sticking? and can it be done while recovering? random thought....... but if so, does that mean that u could use the pikmin throw as a means of recovering? similar to ssbm mario with his cape.... or ssbm marth with his foward b

someone that knows more about b-sticking propeties please get back to me on this
-This isn`t meant to be offensive-
If you tried using the search function, since I`m too lazy to find the thread, you`ll find a comprehensive guide to B-sticking.

Now, B-sticking with Olimar has minimal practicality.
First off, if you tried to replicate the 'bounce' you get with certain characters, such as Lucas, you`ll find that Olimar does not.
Instead, you`ll notice a stop in momentum. In other words, you`d notice almost as if you hit a wall.
[Assuming you B-stick the opposite direction your control stick is facing]

EDIT:
Oh, and to answer your question, since you do not gain the 'bounce'-like movement, B-sticking to recovery is probably not the smartest thing to do.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
I heard a rumor today that it is possible to grab that edge through an opponent by hitting l or R right as the up b hit the edge...I've had no luck...

Can anyone confirm or deny this???!!!
 

Pyronic_Star

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,549
Location
maryland
@Fredd
i know there are threads, but i was nvr able to do it and well, no one made it seem that special so i nvr really bothered i suppose...... that and i'm fairly lazy haha........ but i'm desperate for ways so it was kinda a random thought lol, thanks for letting me know it won't work though
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
I heard a rumor today that it is possible to grab that edge through an opponent by hitting l or R right as the up b hit the edge...I've had no luck...

Can anyone confirm or deny this???!!!
i havent heard this or seen this anywhere. It would be big news if true, but I really doubt it.
 

Odlanier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
197
Anyone have good stories of recoveries gone wrong?

Once I was trying to recover and Kirby's Final Smash sucked in all my Pikmin but not me... it was slightly pathetic...
 

MightyRoar

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Vallejo, CA
Anyone have good stories of recoveries gone wrong?

Once I was trying to recover and Kirby's Final Smash sucked in all my Pikmin but not me... it was slightly pathetic...
i got one. it happened yesterday at my friend's house. he was zero suit and me olimar. it was our last life with both of us at 180% -ish. we're both off Final Destination trying to grab the edge and i'm in the worst spot for olimar to grab the edge with Up B. but i up B anyway. no, i didn't aim for the edge, i aimed for zero suit instead. from that point it was do or die. he had the chance to get back but the chain knocked him far enough to be KOed before i fell to my death.

now regarding the topic of recovering. the story above is only situational and needs to be well planned. i did it accidently. so i figure that this would be a good mind game for stupid people or for a surprise last ditch attack. it probly won't work in a tournament just for the fact that it's smarter to just edgehog than go for a spike or meteor, especially if against olimar when he's below the edge.
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
Be very careful with using your 2nd jump on the stage. Smart players have ways to bait you into using it prematurely, and then knocking you off the edge. That 2nd jump along with floatiness is your most reliable recovery.

Once that is gone, you have several options (assuming your opponent isn't picking his nose and watching paint dry when you're off the stage).

1. If you have a purple pikmin, throw it at him. Sometimes if you throw another pikmin it'll make them nervous and leave the edge, but don't count on that.

2. If they're on the edge, f-air them off, and quickly latch on.

3. As a last resort, if you have pretty much anything other than a white pikmin at the END of your line, if you hit your opponent at the right angle under the stage, you'll stage spike them (this'll kill yourself in the process, but it's funny). If this works, they die before you, so if you're on your last life and so are they you'll win. It's possible to tech the stage spike, but hard because it's so fast and they won't always expect it.
 

OlimarFan

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
790
Location
ACT, Australia
3) The newest addition VERY SOLID AGAINST OPPONENTS WITH HIGH DAMAGE. Save your second jump and don't throw any pikmin. Go to a position where you normally would recover. My favorite one is simply at about 10 degrees off from just below your opponent. Now jump and do your down b which is hard for the opponent to read - they will assume you are doing the up b and are afraid of dying. If you timed this right and have 5-6 pikmin, now you should be able to grab the ledge.

QUOTE]

It's cos they're scared of FALCON PIKMIN
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
Oh the generations of Olimars this question has crossed =P If you want to see how far we've come, or just for a laugh, check out the original thread on this topic: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141173

Unfortunately, apart from the US release of the game, little has changed concerning Olimar's recovery. Some of the ideas thrown around are more obviously insane now, and others have been proven false, but the purple toss, slight UpB hop and aerials are all mentioned in there somewhere =P The only viable two options mentioned there and not here are not techniques, but valuable game theory I figured I'd add.


Don't Get Hit, but if you do, DI:
Its a common theme/joke, but its got merit, particularly the last part. First off realize than any time you get hit is because you made a mistake, take it personally when you get hit and work on it. Its funny how much this mindset can improve a player, suddenly drawing interest to rolls dodges shields and spacing. Secondly from this phrase however is something I don't think I've mentioned much lately, but is incredibly important and should be reiterated more often. DI, Directional Influence, its been so improved in Brawl that going back to SSBM would likely feel like playing underwater. If you don't understand what DI is, or don't know exactly how to do it, or just could use a very well worded refresher, see this: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155409 So, now that we all know what it is, time for the important Olimar details. Olimar struggles recovering horizontally, so DI to counter that! What I mean is simple, in general because Olimar can be hog gimped so easily, don't just DI the opposite horizontal direction you've been hit. Doing so will reduce the distance you fly, but there is a better option. If you DI up, you will still fly horizontally, but also higher than you would normally, very noticeably so at %s high enough you need to worry about gimped recovery. Being higher up does many good things for Olimar's recovery, first of all you'll be able to DI back onto the stage much more easily cause you have more falling time prior to getting to the stage. Because of this, you can at much higher percents be able to land on the stage, not even needing the ledge. Because you can land on the stage, people will not try and gimp you, which means they'll leave the ledge open. When they do this, don't fall right into them hoping to hit with an aerial, its predictable, they have the advantage on the ground, and most the time you'll find yourself just flying off the stage again. Instead fall safely to the ledge, now you have the ledge unharmed just as though you would have used UpB to recover if he hadn't hogged and you hadn't DIed up. This increased time also means that IF you should need to pull out a purple pikmin, you'll have more time to whistle/FAir your way there, never a bad thing. This correct DI will easily extend your average life a noticeable amount, do it. Be warned though, good players will see that your DIing up consistently and extending your life that way, they will then try and use moves that will instead knock you up, trying to ceiling KO you. Recognize when your being hit up, and correctly DI down, and then typical anti juggling stuff to land safely. Good DI is probably the single biggest improvement a player who doesn't do it can make, its as fundamental as short hopping or shielding, but it is far far more overlooked than most of the basics.


Positioning:
I go on and on about spacing. I doubt theres many posts around here that doesn't have the word in it somewhere. Its important, but in some situations positioning is even more so. I'll define positioning like this, if you were going to take a hard hit from your opponent, and your opponent was going to be in the same spot they are right now, where would you want to be to take that hit? Or an even simpler example, pretend every move had the exact same knock back, and it didn't increase with your percent. Obviously the safest place in the game would then be the middle of the stage, because if everything hit just as hard, you'd have equal safe space in every direction. Now if your opponent is off to one side of the stage, logically you'd want to be on the inside of him, back to the center of the stage. In this position you'd have to be hit all the way across the stage prior to you being in any danger of losing the stock. This is a simple concept, so simple that it, sometimes even more so than DI, is tragically forgotten and overlooked. Positioning becomes obvious when your at high damage and caught on the ledge, trying to get up and be safe but your opponent just seems to be knocking you off that side again, however good positioning earlier on in a life is also important, especially as your percents are entering the middle area, not fighting for your life but a tad beaten up. Fighting for and controlling you and your opponents positioning on a stage is a bigger deal for characters with poor recoveries. You ideally would always have your back to the center of the stage fighting an opponent. Bad positioning means when you get hit your going to fly into an even smaller area of the stage, giving you even fewer options and making it even more likely your opponent will connect yet again, pushing you further and further until your dead. If you manage to get into good positioning, your opponent may still have momentum and be in your face with pressure, but at least now they have to hit you across the length of the stage again before your in danger, and hopefully in that time/space you'll be able to turn things around. Olimar is great at spacing due to his character identity of non projectile range. Fight for, win, and then keep that central positioning, any time they try and take it they have to try and avoid Olimar and his big range, not an easy task. Many players will forget or not even see the positioning game, they'll give it to you unconsciously, don't make the same mistake. Look for this positioning in games between good players, not only will you see it, you'll find it can often times tell you who the winner is before its even over.



-True
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
Oh the generations of Olimars this question has crossed =P If you want to see how far we've come, or just for a laugh, check out the original thread on this topic: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141173

Unfortunately, apart from the US release of the game, little has changed concerning Olimar's recovery. Some of the ideas thrown around are more obviously insane now, and others have been proven false, but the purple toss, slight UpB hop and aerials are all mentioned in there somewhere =P The only viable two options mentioned there and not here are not techniques, but valuable game theory I figured I'd add.


Don't Get Hit, but if you do, DI:
Its a common theme/joke, but its got merit, particularly the last part. First off realize than any time you get hit is because you made a mistake, take it personally when you get hit and work on it. Its funny how much this mindset can improve a player, suddenly drawing interest to rolls dodges shields and spacing. Secondly from this phrase however is something I don't think I've mentioned much lately, but is incredibly important and should be reiterated more often. DI, Directional Influence, its been so improved in Brawl that going back to SSBM would likely feel like playing underwater. If you don't understand what DI is, or don't know exactly how to do it, or just could use a very well worded refresher, see this: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155409 So, now that we all know what it is, time for the important Olimar details. Olimar struggles recovering horizontally, so DI to counter that! What I mean is simple, in general because Olimar can be hog gimped so easily, don't just DI the opposite horizontal direction you've been hit. Doing so will reduce the distance you fly, but there is a better option. If you DI up, you will still fly horizontally, but also higher than you would normally, very noticeably so at %s high enough you need to worry about gimped recovery. Being higher up does many good things for Olimar's recovery, first of all you'll be able to DI back onto the stage much more easily cause you have more falling time prior to getting to the stage. Because of this, you can at much higher percents be able to land on the stage, not even needing the ledge. Because you can land on the stage, people will not try and gimp you, which means they'll leave the ledge open. When they do this, don't fall right into them hoping to hit with an aerial, its predictable, they have the advantage on the ground, and most the time you'll find yourself just flying off the stage again. Instead fall safely to the ledge, now you have the ledge unharmed just as though you would have used UpB to recover if he hadn't hogged and you hadn't DIed up. This increased time also means that IF you should need to pull out a purple pikmin, you'll have more time to whistle/FAir your way there, never a bad thing. This correct DI will easily extend your average life a noticeable amount, do it. Be warned though, good players will see that your DIing up consistently and extending your life that way, they will then try and use moves that will instead knock you up, trying to ceiling KO you. Recognize when your being hit up, and correctly DI down, and then typical anti juggling stuff to land safely. Good DI is probably the single biggest improvement a player who doesn't do it can make, its as fundamental as short hopping or shielding, but it is far far more overlooked than most of the basics.


Positioning:
I go on and on about spacing. I doubt theres many posts around here that doesn't have the word in it somewhere. Its important, but in some situations positioning is even more so. I'll define positioning like this, if you were going to take a hard hit from your opponent, and your opponent was going to be in the same spot they are right now, where would you want to be to take that hit? Or an even simpler example, pretend every move had the exact same knock back, and it didn't increase with your percent. Obviously the safest place in the game would then be the middle of the stage, because if everything hit just as hard, you'd have equal safe space in every direction. Now if your opponent is off to one side of the stage, logically you'd want to be on the inside of him, back to the center of the stage. In this position you'd have to be hit all the way across the stage prior to you being in any danger of losing the stock. This is a simple concept, so simple that it, sometimes even more so than DI, is tragically forgotten and overlooked. Positioning becomes obvious when your at high damage and caught on the ledge, trying to get up and be safe but your opponent just seems to be knocking you off that side again, however good positioning earlier on in a life is also important, especially as your percents are entering the middle area, not fighting for your life but a tad beaten up. Fighting for and controlling you and your opponents positioning on a stage is a bigger deal for characters with poor recoveries. You ideally would always have your back to the center of the stage fighting an opponent. Bad positioning means when you get hit your going to fly into an even smaller area of the stage, giving you even fewer options and making it even more likely your opponent will connect yet again, pushing you further and further until your dead. If you manage to get into good positioning, your opponent may still have momentum and be in your face with pressure, but at least now they have to hit you across the length of the stage again before your in danger, and hopefully in that time/space you'll be able to turn things around. Olimar is great at spacing due to his character identity of non projectile range. Fight for, win, and then keep that central positioning, any time they try and take it they have to try and avoid Olimar and his big range, not an easy task. Many players will forget or not even see the positioning game, they'll give it to you unconsciously, don't make the same mistake. Look for this positioning in games between good players, not only will you see it, you'll find it can often times tell you who the winner is before its even over.



-True
You talk about spacing all of the time b/c its the most important part of olly's game...and I have to be honest, just like when I talked to you yesterday...I had really forgotten about the DI influence...:D
 
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