Is there a reason why Captian Falcon's grab in Smash 4 takes up half the stage?

[Captain Farukon]

Falcon having a poor recovery on this game makes sense, its one of the ways to balance him since he has good frame date, weight and killing power.

Fox adn Falco being able to recovery after illusion also makes sense, their recovery would be hilariously awful if it werent for that, its pretty bad already.

it makes no sense since they buffed Fire Fox and falco (the name of their recovery move). In previous smash games after doing illusion or phantom...boom ..dead...just like after using raptor boost also with link i remember how you had to be very precise when recoverying with the hookshot you had to a hit the ledge perfectly now its fricking automatic from almost any range and they removed super armor from the falcon dive and also nerf the little glide from Mario`s cape? cmon

 

[Fandangox]

it makes no sense since they buffed Fire Fox and falco (the name of their recovery move). In previous smash games after doing illusion or phantom...boom ..dead...just like after using raptor boost also with link i remember how you had to be very precise when recoverying with the hookshot you had to a hit the ledge perfectly now its fricking automatic from almost any range and they removed super armor from the falcon dive and also nerf the little glide from Mario`s cape? cmon

Their default Up B leaves them stationary for a very good amount of time, its incredibly easy to edgeguard if your character has good mobility. Their Side B is either going to hit the ledge, or not, and its very easy to see which is going to be depending on where they were when they initiated the move. Their recovery is still pretty bad.

Mario has very good frame data, not a lot of endlag in his moves, good OoT options, an anti-projectile, and is easy to use, him having a bad recovery also makes sense.

 

[Captain Farukon]

Nobody saying is to nerf him, don't worry. They nerfed my main and I'm still going strong with him. If they do, heaven forbid because I like Captain Falcon I'll probably still play him just to show he kicks *** despite being nerfed

i ll`probably just quit this game, im very salty because all these years and no F-zero X 3D or a console F-zero game and how they keep messing with my fav character

 

[Fandangox]

But your favorite character is a pretty solid character in Smash 4, he just has very obvious weaknesses.

 

[Captain Farukon]

Their default Up B leaves them stationary for a very good amount of time, its incredibly easy to edgeguard if your character has good mobility. Their Side B is either going to hit the ledge, or not, and its very easy to see which is going to be depending on where they were when they initiated the move. Their recovery is still pretty bad.

Mario has very good frame data, not a lot of endlag in his moves, good OoT options, an anti-projectile, and is easy to use, him having a bad recovery also makes sense.

Not if you are in the air , i got meteor with falcon phantom!!!! that thing really deserves a nerf, Mario is pretty much the most balanced character except that in this game his dmg output was reduced so you ve a hard time KO some heavy characters without getting some pretty good dmg yourserlf also it makes no sense that ...he `s MARIO for godsake the legendary JUMP MAN from the arcades and having bad recovery its just stupid..also dont make me talk about how Samus is the worst character and they havent fixed her up yet in any patch...

 

[Fandangox]

You are not supposed to contest Illusion/Phatom on the air, you wait till they try to get on the stage, its fire fox/falco that can be easily challenged in the air. Mario's killing power is not bad, especially coupled with all his other good options. And yeah Samus, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mewtwo a bunch of characters are still pretty bad, but I guess they are getting there, Falco, Ike, Wii Fit Trainer, and Marth/Lucina have gotten very god buffs in the latest patches.

 

[Captain Farukon]

You are not supposed to contest Illusion/Phatom on the air, you wait till they try to get on the stage, its fire fox/falco that can be easily challenged in the air. Mario's killing power is not bad, especially coupled with all his other good options. And yeah Samus, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mewtwo a bunch of characters are still pretty bad, but I guess they are getting there, Falco, Ike, Wii Fit Trainer, and Marth/Lucina have gotten very god buffs in the latest patches.

Samus is so ungodly bad that you need luck to win against top tier character and of course top level players
Dont take it wrong man but those ****ers(except Samus) dont deserve any buff, C.Falcon needs to be buffed or at least reverse the nerfs he got, that just proves how the dev team doesnt know what they are doing...its like if you work in street fighter 4 and you create a character like Hakan which is low tier and when you see how ****ty he is you say "oh ok...we ****ed up lets buff him massively to be a challange even to Ryu or Akuma" why make him ****ty in the first place if you are to buff him later?...they should stick to what they originally have in mind with the characters , this game is like a chimera you dont know what it is or how it would be later

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

You are not supposed to contest Illusion/Phatom on the air, you wait till they try to get on the stage, its fire fox/falco that can be easily challenged in the air. Mario's killing power is not bad, especially coupled with all his other good options. And yeah Samus, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mewtwo a bunch of characters are still pretty bad, but I guess they are getting there, Falco, Ike, Wii Fit Trainer, and Marth/Lucina have gotten very god buffs in the latest patches.

Exactly I died with Fox and Falco because someone predicted my Illusion recovery, it happens to the best of us. All it comes down to is knowing your character's strengths and using them efficiently. Falcon is like what you told me, high risk high reward

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

Samus is so ungodly bad that you need luck to win against top tier character and of course top level players
Dont take it wrong man but those ****ers(except Samus) dont deserve any buff, C.Falcon needs to be buffed or at least reverse the nerfs he got, that just proves how the dev team doesnt know what they are doing...its like if you play street fighter 4 and you made a character like Hakan which is low tier and when you see how ****ty he is you say "oh ok...we ****ed up lets buff him massively to be a challange even to Ryu or Akuma" why make him ****ty in the first place if you are to buff him later?...they should stick to what they originally have in mind with the characters , this game is like a chimera you dont know what it is or how it would be later

Yea, tiers are BS at least to me. I rarely like high tier characters except in Marvel because they were characters I like. Samus should at least get her hitboxes fixed, they work at mid range but miss sometimes during close range combat without dodging. Personally I use Samus more than Zero suit but I try to learn both to know what's coming if I fight one

 

[Captain Farukon]

Exactly I died with Fox and Falco because someone predicted my Illusion recovery, it happens to the best of us. All it comes down to is knowing your character's strengths and using them efficiently. Falcon is like what you told me, high risk high reward

Well Fox illusion its just a hit about 3% but Falcon Phantom has meteor effect so that take me out by surprirse because i thought i could win against that using Uair and we both get him but i got meteored and couldnt recover
i want to say i dont hate Fox or Falco (well i do hate falco cuz of how he`s now better than Fox) i played a little with Fox on Melee i just dont like how their moves work now and also i dont like how fox resembles a squirrel rather than a fox (he looked so cool on Melee)

 

[Captain Farukon]

Yea, tiers are BS at least to me. I rarely like high tier characters except in Marvel because they were characters I like. Samus should at least get her hitboxes fixed, they work at mid range but miss sometimes during close range combat without dodging. Personally I use Samus more than Zero suit but I try to learn both to know what's coming if I fight one

back in the old days even if Samus was.... i believe...low to mid tier on melee she used to beat ass and i mean a LOOOOOT of ass that reverse kick, neutral air and well almost anything except the bombs and missile was a powerhouse and you had to respect Samus , there was a guy who teached me how to play with her and oh god it was so satisfying
Anyway i want C.Falcon old rapid jab and finisher range restores along with MOAR priority to Raptor Boost and Falcon Dive

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

Well Fox illusion its just a hit about 3% but Falcon Phantom has meteor effect so that take me out by surprirse because i thought i could win against that using Uair and we both get him but i got meteored and couldnt recover
i want to say i dont hate Fox or Falco (well i do hate falco cuz of how he`s now better than Fox) i played a little with Fox on Melee i just dont like how their moves work now and also i dont like how fox resembles a squirrel rather than a fox (he looked so cool on Melee)

I'll always like Fox and Falco because I like the franchise so I can't give up on them. I'll admit Fox needs a more badass design, but I just like the character too much to care because I just want to wreck everybody with him.

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

back in the old days even if Samus was.... i believe...low to mid tier on melee she used to beat *** and i mean a LOOOOOT of *** that reverse kick, neutral air and well almost anything except the bombs and missile was a powerhouse and you had to respect Samus , there was a guy who teached me how to play with her and oh god it was so satisfying
Anyway i want C.Falcon old rapid jab and finisher range restores along with MOAR priority to Raptor Boost and Falcon Dive

Falcon is good as is but then again I like when I'm rewarded for playing smart with a character that's easy to be reckless with because honestly most Falcons I fight are too reckless and make me cringe when they do unsafe stuff and expect to win when all they're doing is trying to show off miserably. The few good Falcons impress me because they know their stuff and look good winning

 

[Captain Farukon]

Falcon is good as is but then again I like when I'm rewarded for playing smart with a character that's easy to be reckless with because honestly most Falcons I fight are too reckless and make me cringe when they do unsafe stuff and expect to win when all they're doing is trying to show off miserably. The few good Falcons impress me because they know their stuff and look good winning

Few things are so satisfying as carefully damage the opponent to some extent then wait for the opportuniy dash grab, dthrow to knee and GAME SET!!!! i love how the game freezes for a moment when you are doing the knee as its says "yup you are that much better than your opponent"

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

Few things are so satisfying as carefully damage the opponent to some extent then wait for the opportuniy dash grab, dthrow to knee and GAME SET!!!! i love how the game freezes for a moment when you are doing the knee as its says "yup you are that much better than your opponent"

Once that Knee hits and the percent is high, might as well say bye to that stock. When you land the Falcon Punch after a good read and high percent, "Thank You for flying with Captain Falcon, we hope you enjoyed your flight"

 

[Splebel]

This is the weirdest Discussion of Falcon I've ever stumbled into. I chuckled at how Falcon was considered barely top ten and people are like that means he's balanced. I figured halfway between 1 and Last would be the most balanced.

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

This is the weirdest Discussion of Falcon I've ever stumbled into. I chuckled at how Falcon was considered barely top ten and people are like that means he's balanced. I figured halfway between 1 and Last would be the most balanced.

It started off about Falcon, then Link's grab, then how Zelda can beat Falcon, eventually the topic went back to Falcon. He' s balanced and some people complain about him without bothering to improve that's kind of what happens in a nutshell. It did help me play Falcon better though after getting some advice

 

[Splebel]

It started off about Falcon, then Link's grab, then how Zelda can beat Falcon, eventually the topic went back to Falcon. He' s balanced and some people complain about him without bothering to improve that's kind of what happens in a nutshell. It did help me play Falcon better though after getting some advice

I feel it's hard to justify saying Falcon is balanced when he is considered to be one of the high tier characters. You can say he's balanced because in a vacuum everyone is balanced.

 

[Captain Farukon]

I feel it's hard to justify saying Falcon is balanced when he is considered to be one of the high tier characters. You can say he's balanced because in a vacuum everyone is balanced.

i never said he`s balanced , Mario is the definition of Balance, C.Falcon needs a faster recovery with super armor, more priority and recover his jump after doing a air falcon kick just like melee to be balance

 

[Captain Farukon]

Once that Knee hits and the percent is high, might as well say bye to that stock. When you land the Falcon Punch after a good read and high percent, "Thank You for flying with Captain Falcon, we hope you enjoyed your flight"

XD hahahah when they roll into the platform after hanging from the ledge directly to a falcon punch in the face XD it feels sooooooo awesome
"Falcon Airlines sending your arse into oblivion since 99"

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

XD hahahah when they roll into the platform after hanging from the ledge directly to a falcon punch in the face XD it feels sooooooo awesome
"Falcon Airlines sending your arse into oblivion since 99"

After your flight with Falcon Airlines, please call the Mute City Taxi service they will gladly help you XD

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

I feel it's hard to justify saying Falcon is balanced when he is considered to be one of the high tier characters. You can say he's balanced because in a vacuum everyone is balanced.

Mario has great combo potential but most of it comes from down throw and has tools to counter everything. Falcon's speed and power on top of his weight can take advantage of the rage mechanic. Mario is balanced because he's the introduction character once you get the basics with him you branch out. To me balanced is a character that people can use right then and there to understand the game.

 

[Captain Farukon]

After your flight with Falcon Airlines, please call the Mute City Taxi service they will gladly help you XD

XD hahahhahaah take you well deserved Like

 

[Fandangox]

I feel it's hard to justify saying Falcon is balanced when he is considered to be one of the high tier characters. You can say he's balanced because in a vacuum everyone is balanced.

Not really, Its not about the tier placement, its about how the character relates to the rest of the cast in itself and how the character's strengths and weaknesses are very apparent.

 

[Splebel]

Mario has great combo potential but most of it comes from down throw and has tools to counter everything. Falcon's speed and power on top of his weight can take advantage of the rage mechanic. Mario is balanced because he's the introduction character once you get the basics with him you branch out. To me balanced is a character that people can use right then and there to understand the game.

Being easy to use at the beginning isn't balanced, that's just being user-friendly. Ease of use doesn't equal balance. People like to bring up Sheik is balanced because she is hard to use but that just means you need to work more to get good and not on how she handles other characters.

Not really, Its not about the tier placement, its about how the character relates to the rest of the cast in itself and how the character's strengths and weaknesses are very apparent.

Yes it is because if a character is high tier it means they are viable to use and good against a lot of characters. If the weaknesses balanced out the strengths Falcon would be lower because he wouldn't have a clear advantage over many characters as he does now (Well I would assume so at least but all your Match up info is on the really high tiers which are honestly hard to get a clear advantage on by anyone). He also wouldn't have a crippling weakness that an opponent can easily exploit.

 

[Steelballray]

Falcon may not be top tier, but his dash grab and reward off grabs is too good for him to be considered balanced.

All the relatively relevant characters have something that LOOKS overpowered. Luigi has a down throw that combos at all percentages and can lead into guareented kills, Ness has a throw kills at 80%, Rosalina has Luma, ZSS has invincible DownB. Falcon is balanced, if you take his dash grab alone it might seem broken but when you take the character as a whole its very appearent that he's one of the most balanced characters there are. And its not like he can combo out of the grab all that great either. Most of his stuff require reads and baits. If he had Luigi's reward he would be imbalanced but he doesn't, so that's that.

 

[Splebel]

All the relatively relevant characters have something that LOOKS overpowered. Luigi has a down throw that combos at all percentages and can lead into guareented kills, Ness has a throw kills at 80%, Rosalina has Luma, ZSS has invincible DownB. Falcon is balanced, if you take his dash grab alone it might seem broken but when you take the character as a whole its very appearent that he's one of the most balanced characters there are. And its not like he can combo out of the grab all that great either. Most of his stuff require reads and baits. If he had Luigi's reward he would be imbalanced but he doesn't, so that's that.

I heard down throw to Knee is a true combo at certain percentages. Plus throwing (I don't know which) to up air strings seems like a true combo at least at certain percentages also.

 

[Steelballray]

I heard down throw to Knee is a true combo at certain percentages. Plus throwing (I don't know which) to up air strings seems like a true combo at least at certain percentages also.

The throw youre talking about is down throw. I keep hearing that it combos into Knee a lot but I have never saw it in action so I guess there's some sort of additional condition to it.. Any input, Falcon mains?

D-throw into up air combo in low percentages I believe and requires airdodge reads at high % (I'm about 90% sure of this)

 

[Steelballray]

I feel it's hard to justify saying Falcon is balanced when he is considered to be one of the high tier characters. You can say he's balanced because in a vacuum everyone is balanced.

Being balanced doesn't go against being high tier. I heavily disagree with this opinion of yours. It's the low tiers and low-mid tiers who are imbalanced. Being too weak and having a severe lack of options is bad. A character like Falcon that is very strong but isn't unbeatable or requires changing your playstyle drastically to fight against is how all **** tier characters should be patched to be like.

 

[Captain Farukon]

I heard down throw to Knee is a true combo at certain percentages. Plus throwing (I don't know which) to up air strings seems like a true combo at least at certain percentages also.

you are not mistaken Dthrow to knee is a true combo with almost every character

 

[Captain Farukon]

The throw youre talking about is down throw. I keep hearing that it combos into Knee a lot but I have never saw it in action so I guess there's some sort of additional condition to it.. Any input, Falcon mains?

D-throw into up air combo in low percentages I believe and requires airdodge reads at high % (I'm about 90% sure of this)

damage % and perfect dash grab is the key to true combo with the Knee, i spent two weeks training with all cpu level 9 and some for glory players to test it

 

[Captain Farukon]

sorry i double post and dont know how to delete the comment

 

[Steelballray]

damage % is the key to true combo with the Knee, i spent two weeks training with all cpu level 9 and some for glory players to test it

So how good and reliable would you say it is?

 

[Captain Farukon]

So how good and reliable would you say it is?

sorry i double post , extremely reliable but you need to know and remember the exact dmg % of all characters to KNEE them also C.Falcon rage mechanic sometimes interfere with that or gives you a hand it depends who are you facing

 

[Splebel]

Being balanced doesn't go against being high tier. I heavily disagree with this opinion of yours. It's the low tiers and low-mid tiers who are imbalanced. Being too weak and having a severe lack of options is bad. A character like Falcon that is very strong but isn't unbeatable or requires changing your playstyle drastically to fight against is how all **** tier characters should be patched to be like.

In your version of the game you think Falcon is balanced whereas most of the roster is too weak to be used; but it can also be viewed as the game is mostly balanced except for a select few that are superior to rest of the characters. You are viewing the characters as Everyone should change to be like me instead of I should change to be like everyone else. This seems like an unreasonable thing to do.

 

[Steelballray]

sorry i double post , extremely reliable but you need to know and remember the exact dmg % of all characters to KNEE them also C.Falcon rage mechanic sometimes interfere with that or gives you a hand it depends who are you facing

Thanks a lot for the info, justice racer!

 

[Steelballray]

In your version of the game you think Falcon is balanced whereas most of the roster is too weak to be used; but it can also be viewed as the game is mostly balanced except for a select few that are superior to rest of the characters. You are viewing the characters as Everyone should change to be like me instead of I should change to be like everyone else. This seems like an unreasonable thing to do.

Theres a reasonably high number of good characters in this game. You want those nerfed so they can be more comparable to some trash like Falco and Lucina?

There's around 20 characters that usually people consider good and not a waste of learning time. I'd rather have the number increase rather than decrease. None of our wishes will ever be granted and there is not all that much logic to our claims, but what I'm fairly sure of is that buffing characters to be like the high tiers is a much more logical and appealing approach than to nerf the high tiers so they can become more like the low tiers.

A character is only OP when 1-Its unbeatable or 2- it requires a drastic change of playstyle to have a chance to win against. As long as the character doesn't suffer from these two issues there is absolutely no reason for it to be weakened. None of these two points fit Falcon nor does it strongly fit any of the high tiers. There is one or two that might be in need for very slight tweaks but that's pretty much it.

 

[Splebel]

Theres a reasonably high number of good characters in this game. You want those nerfed so they can be more comparable to some trash like Falco and Lucina?
There's around 20 characters that usually people consider good and not a waste of learning time. I'd rather have the number increase rather than decrease. None of our wishes will ever be granted and there is not all that much logic to our claims, but what I'm fairly sure of is that buffing characters to be like the high tiers is a much more logical and appealing approach than to nerf the high tiers so they can become more like the low tiers.
A character is only OP when 1-Its unbeatable or 2- it requires a drastic change of playstyle to have a chance to win against. As long as the character doesn't suffer from these two issues there is absolutely no reason for it to be weakened. None of these two points fit Falcon nor does it strongly fit any of the high tiers. There is one or two that might be in need for very slight tweaks but that's pretty much it.

Falco and Lucina (Well maybe her) aren't trash.

Against Falcon, Pacman only has a chance if he camps hardcore against Falcon but that's how Pac-man has to handle any rushdown character. Buffing lower tier characters to high tier levels may be appealing to certain people but it certainly is not logical. The logical choice would be to do the easiest choice and that is to nerf the strong outliers and buff the weak outliers. Even if characters got nerfed to the point where everyone was lower tier, the meta would change and everyone would be viable. Same thing if everyone got buffed to Sheik tier. The difference would be pace. I personally prefer slower paced gameplay but you as a Falcon Main probably prefer the faster paced gameplay. Good is subjective.

 

[Captain Farukon]

Thanks a lot for the info, justice racer!

You`re welcome and show them your moves!!!

 

[Captain Farukon]

In your version of the game you think Falcon is balanced whereas most of the roster is too weak to be used; but it can also be viewed as the game is mostly balanced except for a select few that are superior to rest of the characters. You are viewing the characters as Everyone should change to be like me instead of I should change to be like everyone else. This seems like an unreasonable thing to do.

like i said before i think the only balanced character is Mario since it has no real weakness well maybe mediocre dmg output but he has the tools to attack in any style or range