Is there a reason why Captian Falcon's grab in Smash 4 takes up half the stage?

[HFlash]

im scared Gawain...i feel Falcon is getting another ****ing nerf because of so many guys crying "he´s so hard i cant beat him with my cheap *** character please sakurai nerf him boo boo boo"

Good thing the development team won't scour smashboards to find people like this, especially in a thread like this. The Development team uses the Japanese meta, and results to base off the balance patches (at least nowadays). The Japanese think Falcon is very good, so don't be too surprised if he gets nerfed again. Irregardless of patches, you will win or lose the matches you play depending on you, and not on the decisions of a group of Japanese men (unless something VERY drastic) gets patched in which most likely will not. If Diddy is still top 10 at worst with all of the nerfs, Falcon players will be fine.

 

[Cress!]

Everyone is saying how balanced he is.

Explain this and I'll believe you.

 

[Captain Farukon]

Good thing the development team won't scour smashboards to find people like this, especially in a thread like this. The Development team uses the Japanese meta, and results to base off the balance patches (at least nowadays). The Japanese think Falcon is very good, so don't be too surprised if he gets nerfed again. Irregardless of patches, you will win or lose the matches you play depending on you, and not on the decisions of a group of Japanese men (unless something VERY drastic) gets patched in which most likely will not. If Diddy is still top 10 at worst with all of the nerfs, Falcon players will be fine.

He`s supposed to be good he`s fricking Captain Falcon he has been around since the first smash game and has always been one of the most powerful characters in the game, its not fair ****ing dev team keeps nerfing him

 

[HFlash]

Everyone is saying how balanced he is.

Explain this and I'll believe you.

Ok..... don't hold on to the ledge like that? Usmash being falcon's slowest smash is not the most optimal way to punish that.

He`s supposed to be good he`s fricking Captain Falcon he has been around since the first smash game and has always been one of the most powerful characters in the game, its not fair ****ing dev team keeps nerfing him

It's a video games, the developers don't HAVE to do anything. If you want to complain about a few minor nerfs in this game, go play C.F in brawl. Maybe then you'd stop crying. Also... life isn't fair, grow up.

 

[Cress!]

Ok..... don't hold on to the ledge like that? Usmash being falcon's slowest smash is not the most optimal way to punish that.

Are you trying to ignore that he is kicking UPWARD, and somehow is hitting someone BELOW AND TO THE RIGHT of him? It doesn't matter if you shouldn't do that for the optimal punish, that shouldn't happen period.

Falcon is broken. Not in the "OP PLZ NERFFF" way, but the dysfunctional way. Except it's a good dysfunctional I guess. But still, why does he go "lol forget logic " and hit someone not even near him.

 

[Captain Farukon]

Ok..... don't hold on to the ledge like that? Usmash being falcon's slowest smash is not the most optimal way to punish that.



It's a video games, the developers don't HAVE to do anything. If you want to complain about a few minor nerfs in this game, go play C.F in brawl. Maybe then you'd stop crying. Also... life isn't fair, grow up.

what does life has to do with a fricking game? also brawl is the worst game in the series, you r the one who need to grow up kid the game is bad as a fighting game the devs should learn from Street fighter
Also Usmash falcon`slowest smash? are you drunk? hahahaha please go away you dont know anything about Falcon

 

[Splebel]

what does life has to do with a fricking game? also brawl is the worst game in the series, you r the one who need to grow up kid the game is bad as a fighting game the devs should learn from Street fighter
Also Usmash falcon`slowest smash? are you drunk? hahahaha please go away you dont know anything about Falcon

Well then join street fighter if you love it so much. The game doesn't need to imitate life. (Kirby already fails that category) It needs to be realistic though. If Falcon kicks upwards he shouldn't be hitting people hanging off the edge.

 

[ZombieBran]

Captain Falcon's hitboxes are actually working as intended.

He's actually in disguise (notice the similar fashion style of "practically naked with this tightness"), that's why many of his attacks have invisible disjoints even though they look like they should've whiffed.

 

[Cress!]

Captain Falcon's hitboxes are actually working as intended.

He's actually in disguise (notice the similar fashion style of "practically naked with this tightness"), that's why many of his attacks have invisible disjoints even though they look like they should've whiffed.

Not possible, Snake knows how to use a gun, while Captain Falcon bought one for Smash to look intimidating but doesn't know how to use it. You think he would learn after 16 years, but nope.

 

[HFlash]

Not possible, Snake knows how to use a gun, while Captain Falcon bought one for Smash to look intimidating but doesn't know how to use it. You think he would learn after 16 years, but nope.

Giving Falcon a projectile would seriously make him a pseudo shiek. (Awesome combo game, with great projectile, but less useful fair, better dair, and a worse recovery). Falcon doesn't need it, nor does "zoning" really make sense for him and his persona since his games are about moving FAST i.e Falco/Fox have lasers because they actually pew pew in their games unlike Falcon. Additionally, the reason falcon has that weird hit box is to help him out a bit. It's sort of like kicking a soccer up, those lower hitboxes were put there in order to bring the opponent up and into falcon (which in the video's case, would be up left). Now in BF, ANY move that hits up and left on the right lip will result in a stage spike. Yes, his animation doesn't look like it makes sense, but the hitbox is there to not make Usmash completely useless, particularly on smaller characters.

 

[Cress!]

Giving Falcon a projectile would seriously make him a pseudo shiek. (Awesome combo game, with great projectile, but less useful fair, better dair, and a worse recovery). Falcon doesn't need it, nor does "zoning" really make sense for him and his persona since his games are about moving FAST i.e Falco/Fox have lasers because they actually pew pew in their games unlike Falcon.

Additionally, the reason falcon has that weird hit box is to help him out a bit. It's sort of like kicking a soccer up, those lower hitboxes were put there in order to bring the opponent up and into falcon (which in the video's case, would be up left). Now in BF, ANY move that hits up and left on the right lip will result in a stage spike. Yes, his animation doesn't look like it makes sense, but the hitbox is there to not make Usmash completely useless, particularly on smaller characters.

Okay, list a move. I'll test some later on my own time.

 

[Blue_Edge]

He's one of the only really balanced characters in the game.

You are so funny! That was a great joke. 10/10.

 

[Gawain]

You are so funny! That was a great joke. 10/10.

By disagreeing with that statement you are only revealing your lack of knowledge.

 

[Cress!]

Oh boy I did testing!
Tested a few up smashes to see if it would hit Mario on the right ledge of Battlefield. All damage was at 0% (if that matters.)

Spoiler: The Results

Characters that didn't hit Mario:
(Luma was able to hit, but not Rosalina)
Characters that were able to hit Mario and had a visible hitbox:

Characters I didn't test because their up smash goes straight up:

Characters that did hit Mario and didn't have a visible hitbox:

And I don't have because I don't care for him, so no results.

So where did this "Any attack that hits diagonally up" statement come from???

 

[Blue_Edge]

By disagreeing with that statement you are only revealing your lack of knowledge.

By trying to act like your character isn't a complete monster, and shouldn't be nerfed, you are only fooling yourself. And saying that your character is one of the best balanced in the game is a laughable conclusion.

He`s supposed to be good he`s fricking Captain Falcon he has been around since the first smash game and has always been one of the most powerful characters in the game, its not fair ****ing dev team keeps nerfing him

Take this guy, for example.

 

[Gawain]

By trying to act like your character isn't a complete monster, and shouldn't be nerfed, you are only fooling yourself. And saying that your character is one of the best balanced in the game is a laughable conclusion.
Take this guy, for example.

What kind of argument is that? Tell you what, you show me just three majors that a Falcon got into top 3 with. You won't find them. Falcon is only "op" to scrubs, he's combo food with a fairly streamlined approach to anyone even half good. He may be amazing once he gets a grab (vs some characters), but he sucks big time once he gets grabbed or hit off stage. Maybe you ought to consider that it's you and not Falcon that is having the problem? Falcon's not even top 10 to a lot of people now.

Again he's balanced. He has weaknessesand strengths. The reason he isn't considered better is because the characters above him have little to no weaknesses and have equal or greater advantage states.

Asking to nerf Falcon is just something that poorly informed players who play at very low levels say.

 

[Cress!]

Again he's balanced. He has weaknessesand strengths. The reason he isn't considered better is because the characters above him have little to no weaknesses and have equal or greater advantage states.

Asking to nerf Falcon is just something that poorly informed players who play at very low levels say.

Just saying those hitboxes still don't look very balanced. Splebel put it best.

It needs to be realistic though. If Falcon kicks upwards he shouldn't be hitting people hanging off the edge.

Falcon actually CAN be a good character without illogical disjoints. *le gasp*
I posted that video a week ago and still not a single valid reason for why that just happens. I asked for 1 valid reason to why that happens and I'd believe he's a balanced character. But since nobody can really think of anything, is he actually balanced?
No.
In the little testing I did, Falcon is the only character who hit Mario without having a visible hotbox touching Mario. How do you have a character in a fighting game with invisible hotboxes called "balanced?" It would be if everyone had invisible hitboxes, but they don't. Most characters don't have any invisible hitboxes. How are you supposed to judge spacing properly when the move hits farther out than where he actually hits and you can't actually see where it hits?

If he got his invisible hitboxes removed on all of his moves so that their range made sense, but got some other reasonable buffs alongside that (REASONABLE, so without slapping invincibility and super armor on everything), I would be fine with that. That or just give everyone invisible hitboxes and see how fun the game is then. Almost nobody would like the second option.

 

[WwwWario]

Because it's one of his only good options. Take it away from him and he'd be awful. He has so many weaknesses, learn them and exploit them. He's one of the only really balanced characters in the game.

Isn't Nair and Uair pretty much landing-lagless? Both setting up to more Uairs or other options. I too find it hard to avoid Falcon since his grab range is sick, and he's so fast, so not only is it difficult to know what to do when he comes towards you, but he can both get away and punish you so easily with it since he's so fast :\

 

[Blue_Edge]

He`s supposed to be good he`s fricking Captain Falcon he has been around since the first smash game and has always been one of the most powerful characters in the game, its not fair ****ing dev team keeps nerfing him

What kind of argument is that? Tell you what, you show me just three majors that a Falcon got into top 3 with. You won't find them. Falcon is only "op" to scrubs, he's combo food with a fairly streamlined approach to anyone even half good. He may be amazing once he gets a grab (vs some characters), but he sucks big time once he gets grabbed or hit off stage. Maybe you ought to consider that it's you and not Falcon that is having the problem? Falcon's not even top 10 to a lot of people now.

Again he's balanced. He has weaknessesand strengths. The reason he isn't considered better is because the characters above him have little to no weaknesses and have equal or greater advantage states.

Asking to nerf Falcon is just something that poorly informed players who play at very low levels say.

Just because nobody has gotten top three with falcon doesn't mean he should not be nerfed. Nobody with any real status as a pro player, say, top 8 best smash 4 players, has picked him up because if they wanted to pick up a character with good combos, nice punish game, they would choose sheik. Falcon has way too many reallly solid attacks (nair, bair, dair, fsmash, dsmash, dash, etc.) to be one of the most balanced characters in the game. You know who is balanced? Greninja. And he got to that point by being nerfed, hard.

 

[Gawain]

Just because nobody has gotten top three with falcon doesn't mean he should not be nerfed. Nobody with any real status as a pro player, say, top 8 best smash 4 players, has picked him up because if they wanted to pick up a character with good combos, nice punish game, they would choose sheik. Falcon has way too many reallly solid attacks (nair, bair, dair, fsmash, dsmash, dash, etc.) to be one of the most balanced characters in the game. You know who is balanced? Greninja. And he got to that point by being nerfed, hard.

This discussion is ridiculous. What you're saying is that no one should have a number of good moves. That is ludicrous and what you're suggesting would make the game really ****ty. All of your moves should be useful. People don't pick Sheik for combos and neutral game, it's for having the best neutral and disadvantage states. I have already explained why Falcon is balanced and you've chosen to ignore everything in favor of stubbornly maintaining your position.

No, Falcon shouldn't even be changed. Other characters should be brought up or down respectively to match his number of tools, pros, and cons. You are simply unwilling to change your opinion for whatever reason.

 

[Gunla]

I'd wager this entire thread has gotten a bit out of hand. It seemed to be more of a complaint than a "How do I work against Captain Falcon's dash grab" rather than anything else, and turned into more of a thread of arguements about what's balanced, what's "broken", and the like. Complaint threads aren't really OK.

In most cases, there's a way to work around something like Falcon's grab, but you have to lab. Testing around/constant practice against a Falcon player will get you to the point where you know what to do. To deem something as instantly "broken" without practice or learning against it can come off as a bit judgmental.

This thread will be locked.