Is the so far buffed Samus enough?

[YourOpinionIs]

I think her slow missiles+slow Charge Shot will be great for stage control.
>Homing missile>homing missile>super missile>charge beam, dash grab would be a killer combo.
From what I've seen people need to capitalize on her fast ground game.

 

[Hapajin]

Ground game seems buffed but I'm really uncertain about her air game.

-Nair isn't a sex kick anymore and it does a hit forward and back. I feel like this is an overall nerf, if you wanted the kick from behind Bair is a much better choice anyways.
-Dair now requires you to sweetspot to meteor. It comes out faster but doesn't linger like Brawl did which is what I thought made it a good move.
-Fair is better than Brawl, but from what I seen it doesn't autocancel when you hit the ground so you are easily punished if it doesn't hit.
+Uair is the only one that seems normal/buffed since it can now kill.

Coupled with no more missile cancelling I am kind of concerned about how she will do in the air since samus is already pretty floaty.

Her optimal playstyle will probably be very very different from Brawl/PM and Melee

Nair really seems worse than it was in Brawl? I haven't played samus in SSB4 yet, so I could be completely mistaken on her new Nair effectiveness, but her Brawl nair just seemed pitiful. Since it did so little knockback, I got punished a lot, whether I landed it or not. Combined with Brawl's lack of hitstun, I would pull out a nair, and my opponents would punish while the kick was still activated.
Conversely, from the SSB4 footage I've seen, her new nair has KO potential. I haven't seen anyone use it that well yet (besides in the "flashy samus KO" video), but it seems like a decent edgeguarding tool. I look forward to trying it out.

Also her new dair seems pretty decent, even if it's not as an effective meteor anymore. In the video where she's fighting the POTUS, she star KO'd him with the "sourspot" of the move at 108%. So while it may not be as bad good of a meteor smash, I think it deserves a bit more credit.

I haven't seen a whole lot of Bair usage. How is that move?

 

[IsmaR]

It's really nerfed, which is saying something considering it was one of her best moves. Still fairly usable, but it leaves a lot to be desired.

I think he meant N-air was nerfed for Samus as a whole. Meaning as a sex kick (specifically in Melee) it was better than spinning kick, which lasts as long (if not longer) and only hits on one side at a time..

New N-air has "KO Potential" in the same sense that pretty much every move has KO potential in incredibly specific/niche situations. Hitting with it off stage will be its primary "kill" use.

 

[YourOpinionIs]

Nair really seems worse than it was in Brawl? I haven't played samus in SSB4 yet, so I could be completely mistaken on her new Nair effectiveness, but her Brawl nair just seemed pitiful. Since it did so little knockback, I got punished a lot, whether I landed it or not. Combined with Brawl's lack of hitstun, I would pull out a nair, and my opponents would punish while the kick was still activated.
Conversely, from the SSB4 footage I've seen, her new nair has KO potential. I haven't seen anyone use it that well yet (besides in the "flashy samus KO" video), but it seems like a decent edgeguarding tool. I look forward to trying it out.

Also her new dair seems pretty decent, even if it's not as an effective meteor anymore. In the video where she's fighting the POTUS, she star KO'd him with the "sourspot" of the move at 108%. So while it may not be as bad good of a meteor smash, I think it deserves a bit more credit.

I haven't seen a whole lot of Bair usage. How is that move?

The new Nair is very very situational as opposed to the versatility of the previous sex kick I feel like. Sure the new Nair can kill but that's only if you can actually land it properly. In Melee/PM Nair was great because you can literally drop on people with the Nair since it had the long lasting hit overall hitbox.

Dair is faster I agree, but most against characters a guaranteed meteor is so much better than hoping to accidently kill with a sourspot. If I wanted the horizontal kill I would have baired.

The way I view it is that her old aerials have very good specific uses overall . Dair for meteor gimps, bair for the kill, nair to approach or keep people away.

Bair and Uair are still pretty great moves though so I can't really complain.

 

[Ganreizu]

New N-air has "KO Potential" in the same sense that pretty much every move has KO potential in incredibly specific/niche situations. Hitting with it off stage will be its primary "kill" use.

Nair kills far more reliably than that.

 

[Hapajin]

Oh yeah, I was mostly comparing the SSB4 Nair to her brawl Nair. I would 100% agree her Melee/PM Nair is the best, which is one reason I found the Brawl one so frustrating. Then again, Samus as a whole frustrated me in Brawl.
I was sort of imagining myself using her new Nair as an alternative to her Fair, in case I'm not in position to land a Bair or Uair, particularly when edge-guarding. What options would you guys suggest?

 

[YourOpinionIs]

Nair doesn't seem too bad as an edgeguard, I saw ESAM using it pretty well on one of his vids since you can keep nairing. Idt none of them connected so I don't know how it'll do.

 

[RPK]

I do wonder if the knockback/damage is different from the front and back hitboxes.

 

[Chauzu]

I do wonder if the knockback/damage is different from the front and back hitboxes.

Damage varies by 1% as I wrote in my data collection thread.

Knockback I'm not sure, I can check later.

btw, I main Ganondorf as well and there has been a lot of talk about Ganondorf's edge gimping abilities and them being the best in the game. Example video here (first match vs. Palutena): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj3m7JJV78A

Things is I just checked and Samus seems to be able to do the exact same thing as Ganondorf can. And Ganondorf has already been named "the king of edge guarding".

If there's interest I'll get a vid up to show off.

 

[Hapajin]

Damage varies by 1% as I wrote in my data collection thread.

Knockback I'm not sure, I can check later.

btw, I main Ganondorf as well and there has been a lot of talk about Ganondorf's edge gimping abilities and them being the best in the game. Example video here (first match vs. Palutena): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj3m7JJV78A

Things is I just checked and Samus seems to be able to do the exact same thing as Ganondorf can. And Ganondorf has already been named "the king of edge guarding".

If there's interest I'll get a vid up to show off.

How does Samus do the same thing, with her Bair? I have interest

 

[YourOpinionIs]

I am definitely interested

 

[Chauzu]

Ok, I can't really say it's the "same thing" but it feels similair with both Ganondorf and Samus when I've been testing and definately a lot different from Zelda which is the 3rd I've done a lot of testing with.

Eitherway, I got a clip up showing how it looks vs. Lucina, Toon Link and Ganondorf. (It also worked against Kirby but I couldn't find a good set-up now lol.)

 

[TeaTwoTime]

That looks really nice. It isn't nearly as inherently powerful as Ganondorf's, which is entirely to be expected due to this being Samus and Ganondorf being... Ganondorf... but it does look very effective nevertheless. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Joanny]

It doesn't work on every character ?
Thanks for the video buddy !

 

[Chauzu]

It doesn't work on every character ?
Thanks for the video buddy !

No, I just mentioned the ones I have tested it on. Tested it on a few more and I think it will work against every character.

The thing is the timing though. You need to grab the ledge very quickly after the opponent as this seems to give you more time to act.

I'm sure someone will figure this out more later.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Ground game seems buffed but I'm really uncertain about her air game.

-Nair isn't a sex kick anymore and it does a hit forward and back. I feel like this is an overall nerf, if you wanted the kick from behind Bair is a much better choice anyways.
-Dair now requires you to sweetspot to meteor. It comes out faster but doesn't linger like Brawl did which is what I thought made it a good move.
-Fair is better than Brawl, but from what I seen it doesn't autocancel when you hit the ground so you are easily punished if it doesn't hit.
+Uair is the only one that seems normal/buffed since it can now kill.

Coupled with no more missile cancelling I am kind of concerned about how she will do in the air since samus is already pretty floaty.

Her optimal playstyle will probably be very very different from Brawl/PM and Melee

Completely agree with her being a lot different from how she's been played before. As for her nair, we'll have to see how people use it. In terms of strength it's far better than her brawl sex kick and I can see it being a good way to punish air dodgers.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Samus is not at all an E-rank. She at least has tools, unlike Ike.

Samus does have good projectiles. Her missiles are spammable to an extent that they aren't totally useless. In fact, I would go so far as to say her missile's usefulness hasn't gotten worse at all and that they might even be better than in brawl. Even without missile canceling, Samus, as long as she is grounded, can fire missiles with low enough lag that she can chase a missile and punish a roll or spot-dodge with a grab or even follow up a hit with a nair or fair, if they were hit at just the right time.

Samus's grab is way fast. So fast, it almost feels unfair to use, given it's range and difficulty to punish. It also cover much of the options the opponent has. The pivot grab even has enough length to punish certain characters' roll-aways.

Then, Samus has amazing juggle potential. You can up-air into another up-air, fast fall with little to no lag, and keep the juggle going; something which was lacking for Samus in every other Smash iteration. To top it all off, Samus can kill with up-B off the top; something Samus could not reliably do in any other smash game.

Now Samus has all sorts of kill moves which are safe enough for Samus to do repeatedly without being punished as often as necessary to get me to stop. F-smash is fast, up-B punished an air dodge if you bait one out, charged shot is still amazing, and almost all of Samus' aerials.

The so-far-buffed Samus is quite enough. She is too good.

 

[option.iv]

Been playing Samus for a bit. I agree that her nair is nerfed. But I also think it was taken out because the game isn't about shffl-ing. It's feels more about space control and reads. For air to ground, I found I've been using dair as it recovers just as you land from a short hop. I reserved bair and nair for horizontal air-to-air. Unfortunately, I think both are too similar and wish they were much more different from each other. Uair is really good, even though it doesn't launch as far as other moves, I find it rarely beaten. Fair is meh like always, though I have a high chance of connecting this after down throw.

My strategy has been mainly mixing up with charge shot and shield-jump canceling out of it to mix it up. Sometimes I just let the blast go prematurely to make others think twice about it. Because you can cancel the charge with shield, you can do several things. You can cancel into short hop (my favorite), roll (when someone is coming down on you), grab (great against people dashing at you), and spot dodge.

I feel Samus is all about maintaining certain zones where the opponent can't react and has to guess between shots, hops. and grabs. Even if the opponent has reflect, it's still a mind game, because hops and grabs beat them.

Her side tilts are great as always. Can change angle, good reach, and fairly fast. I can definitely keep up with rolls and catch people on recovery with them. Though I believe they are punishable if shielded. A couple times I've been grabbed because I couldn't time them to hit. Up tilt is still slow, but the hitbox seems pretty generous. Down tilt feels the same as well.

I feel her grab is in a good place. It doesn't feel too OP (though I have to admit, I haven't played against many Samus players, I feel like the only one).

The only thing I just don't like about Samus is her down+b bomb mechanics. She can't do anything in ball form and they made it so the explosives don't explode on contact. Now it's just reserved to altering trajectory and getting back on stage I feel. No more bomb/ball canceling missles.

Also, maybe it's just me, but her up+b special seems fairly good. Good to get out of certain combos. Also knocks people a good amount if you get the last hit compared to previous iterations. I actually killed someone with it which surprised the heck out of me.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

My strategy has been mainly mixing up with charge shot and shield-jump canceling out of it to mix it up. Sometimes I just let the blast go prematurely to make others think twice about it. Because you can cancel the charge with shield, you can do several things. You can cancel into short hop (my favorite), roll (when someone is coming down on you), grab (great against people dashing at you), and spot dodge.

I'd also like to note that if you use the grab button while charging, you can immediately grab.

I feel Samus is all about maintaining certain zones where the opponent can't react and has to guess between shots, hops. and grabs. Even if the opponent has reflect, it's still a mind game, because hops and grabs beat them.

Also jump to homing missile to grab, if they are using reflectors, and if you condition them to reflect or shield, the game becomes too easy.

Also, maybe it's just me, but her up+b special seems fairly good. Good to get out of certain combos. Also knocks people a good amount if you get the last hit compared to previous iterations. I actually killed someone with it which surprised the heck out of me.

This is now one of Samus' off-the-top kill moves and it's amazing.