Is sheik really the best?

[Drephen]

Very few people still think that sheik is still best when it comes to tiers, but some people still think so.

why is this? Cause of the physics of sheik? A flawlessly executed shiek should win everytime?

Then why doesnt sheik still win tournies? Some people believe that everyone just studied shiek and everyone knows how to fight her now. Or is it just that some characters are just better than sheik.

Heres how it was in the past. In 2004 lots of shiek players. Soon after everyone switched to fox and falco so there were less sheik players. Now people are moving beyond fox and falco and there are barely and sheik players left.

m2k still thinks sheik is best but because of lack of players sheik doesnt get recognition.

So why doesnt a really good player like PC, ken, or m2k himself just use sheik all the time and win?

my opinion is that sheik is an obsolete character compared to fox falco and marth. Sheik has advantages sure but overall the character doesnt cut it

So post your opinions on where you think sheik is in the metagame today.

Why was the other thread about shiek and tiers closed anyway? I really wish mods would give reasons why they close threads before doing so like they used to.

Omni Edit: Please don't target specific users, Drephen. Otherwise a good thread.

 

[chillindude829]

my opinion is that sheik is an obsolete character compared to fox falco and marth. Sheik has advantages sure but overall the character doesnt cut it

i dont think sheiks the best but LOL @ this. i dont know why people still insist falco is one of the best characters, he's not in the same league as marth/fox/sheik.

and anyway if you think sheik is obsolete then i'll use the same argument you used: why don't you use fox/falco/marth all the time and win?

 

[Drephen]

thats cause i also believe that you should use the characters that you are most comfortable with

i dont feel i do as well when i switch to other characters during tourney play, i have tried marth fox and luigi and even if i won i dont feel confident about it. Plus i know the matchups with shiek way better than i do with other characters. Im sure you feel the same way with fox chillin

I find it amazing that pc and azen can play other characters and feel comfortable with them and do well with them, ive tried it before and i cant do what they can do

 

[chillindude829]

thats cause i also believe that you should use the characters that you are most comfortable with

i dont feel i do as well when i switch to other characters during tourney play, i have tried marth fox and luigi and even if i won i dont feel confident about it. Plus i know the matchups with shiek way better than i do with other characters. Im sure you feel the same way with fox chillin

I find it amazing that pc and azen can play other characters and feel comfortable with them and do well with them, ive tried it before and i cant do what they can do

yeah i do feel the same way with fox, but that kinda invalidates your earlier argument about m2k using sheik. hes not as comfortable with sheik as he is with marth/fox obviously, so him using sheik and not doing well doesn't really prove anything.

all bias aside i think marth/sheik/fox are the 3 best in the game, and are extremely close. personally i think marth is the best right now, but it's clearly up for debate. however sheik is definitely not so much worse than marth and fox that she's "obsolete".

 

[-Kazman-]

Sheik clearly is not the best character, she does not win tornys and even the best players using her lose to other characters, I saw PC go Sheik v/s M2K's Marth and get owned, same when M2K beats you Drephen with Marth though she can beat good space animals, I note your beating of Forward and Shiz back to back at Pound2. Overall though whens the last time a sheik won a big torny, hell that Chadd guy won a big one with Ganon, ****ING GANON, what are people not getting lol.

 

[Nihonjin]

So why doesnt a really good player like PC, ken, or m2k himself just use sheik all the time and win?

thats cause i also believe that you should use the characters that you are most comfortable with

You answered your own question.

Sheik isn't obsolete, there simply aren't any Kens/M2k's/PC's in the US who feel most comfortable with Sheik and thats the problem with her (in America atleast) these days.
For a character to get widely accepted as good people need a genius pioneer who explores the character and redefines the meta game, otherwise people will stick with the way they've seen the last creative pro (that everyone copied; Downthrow whoring basically) play. As results you get that people find ways around that specific style and the character drops on the tier list.

In Short:

Sheik is not obsolete, just unexplored on this level of play.
You basically need another genius to break the barriers of the American Sheik meta-game.

*side note*
I agree with m2k on Sheik being the best.

*edit2*

Also, Drephen...change the title. Remove the m2k part.

 

[Vegard]

Nihonjin... what about KDJ? Last time he faced M2K, it was just ridiculous. Too bad he hasn't been to any major tournaments in a while.

 

[Flarefox]

I think that their are general tiers in this game, but it's impossible to say who is the best. Because the characters all have their unique strengths and weaknesses, it really does depend on the matchup. Sheik's obvious strengths are her grab game, good jab for interuptions and combo starters, strong tilts, and high priority backair and killer fair. But, Sheik can be incredibly weak from below, which means that fox's juggles and falco's shine combos can be really effective against her (as well as Marth's uthrow to uptilt and uair). You can make generalizations about which characters tend to be the best in most matchups, but it's really difficult, if not impossible, to come up with the overall best character. Look at fox, for instance. His shine combos and deadly vertical kills (over the top and early shine spike kills) make him a really tricky killer. But, fox can be combo'd from low % to death or really high % by many characters. Think about how devastating a grab from Marth, Peach, or DK can potentially be against fox.

It's just my opinion, but I feel that focusing on counter characters and specific matchups is a lot more important than trying to get the tier list this accurate.

 

[Nihonjin]

Nihonjin... what about KDJ? Last time he faced M2K, it was just ridiculous. Too bad he hasn't been to any major tournaments in a while.

Basically, he's ridiculously good using the "obsolete" Sheik style.
So even though he is ridiculously good, he's operating within that narrow little obsolete box we call Sheiks meta-game. In short, he's doing nothing new, he's simply doing it better than people can handle.

Whats needed is someone who destroyes those boundries and opens people their eyes (like with Fox, Falco & Marth).

 

[Mew2King]

ur dumb drephen, i got substantially better with sheik and everybody since OC2, and my marth was off at Evo world too so that doesn't count for anything since I woulda prolly lost with anyone that day.

My sheik beat hugs 3-1 in tourney THE MONTH AFTER oc2 happened, RIGHT AFTER HUGS BEAT PC TINK AND DOPE ALL 3-0 and 3-1. I also used her at vegas. I also use her at some chu biweeklies to counterpick on big stages. She's a useful character to be able to play.

 

[damage incorperated]

current list imo

top:
fox
marth

high:
shiek
falco

middle:
captain falcon
peach

low:
icies
samus
doc
jiggs

bottom:
everyone else

 

[Flarefox]

ur dumb drephen

"Let's end this like a man." If this had concluded your post m2k, it would have been gloriously epic.

 

[brawlpro]

LOL M2K can't be dumb...that is virtually impossible =P

 

[Drephen]

ur dumb drephen, i got substantially better with sheik and everybody since OC2, and my marth was off at Evo world too so that doesn't count for anything since I woulda prolly lost with anyone that day.

My sheik beat hugs 3-1 in tourney THE MONTH AFTER oc2 happened, RIGHT AFTER HUGS BEAT PC TINK AND DOPE ALL 3-0 and 3-1. I also used her at vegas. I also use her at some chu biweeklies to counterpick on big stages. She's a useful character to be able to play.

"being off" is a john

you still dont use sheik in tournaments

 

[Ryusiodo]

Just because you have reflexes like a computer and can see every single frame in SSBM doesn't make you smart... >.> No offense of course.

 

[Druggedfox]

Um, whoever made falco below sheik is dumb. Sheik is not the best, and very few people can use sheik well at higher levels. Drephen and KDJ are the main ones, and they can take on most match-ups well, but thats about it for really high level. Marth fox and falco are all above sheik imo, and hasnt any1 noticed the increase in marth players recently. Taj and m2k both switched from fox to marth. And im not sure, but ive seen more of pc's fox than falco. Just some thought i think needed to be discussed.

*edit* @ chillindude, i agree with marth possibly being the best because of the rise of marth players, but i disagree with u not putting falco up there. Falco has extremely good match-ups, and the only thing that could put him down is less players using him, which is happening. If more people just used falco he'd hop right back up there. Sheik on the other hand, like nihonjin said, needs a genius who can break through the meta-game. If KDJ went to more tournies he'd be that sheik.

Peace

 

[damage incorperated]

i see better results out of shieks like drephen, kdj, forward, rob money, and many others who use shiek less often like chillin and m2k...even in teams, then i do with falco. falco is appearing less in singles and team play alike. although pc and forward do a great job im seeing more of pcs fox, marth, peach, falcon, etc; and less of his falco. especially in $matches, so -I- put shiek above falco, sorry. as goes for falcon>peach i see better things out of isai, ss, darkrain, greg, and mach dash then i do out of peach players, the exceptions being vidjo and cort. understand?

 

[Oakie]

dont worry ur sheik genious is here...just wait...

 

[Tope]

We've had numerous threads like this, please don't open another one.