Is Samus really THE worst character in the game?

[Flux0r]

Some people have been wondering about this for quite some time, just recently has the topic garnered attention thanks to videos like these.

I'm seriously starting to believe she is the worst character in the game, next to Lucina.

But hey, i don't main her, so thats why i am asking the Samus board about this.

Is she the worst character in the game?
If not, who else is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7CewcWnKs8

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Shoutouts to the Samus boards for trying to convince people Samus is the worst. Great job guys!

Worst is Zelda imo

 

[Morbi]

I serioulsy doubt that there is one character that is THE worst. The bottom five or so are still the bottom five. It is not as though one is better than another. Sometimes people want to attribute a value to precisely how bad a character is or is not; however, the reality of the situation is that those bottom five characters, perhaps even the bottom ten, do not have nearly as many players attempting to acquire knowledge about them. And therefore, their meta-games are more stagnant.

There is also one advantage that all bottom characters have. Match-up knowledge. We understand their characters, we understand Sheik and all other top tier characters to a certain extent. They do not understand ours. More importantly, player skill is much more prominent in deciding a match than character selection unless were are referencing the highest level of play. So, can Samus truly be defined as the worst character in the game? I suppose, but I do not believe that to be an accurate assertion in the slightest.

 

[Xygonn]

Samus has some broken design decisions. Some great MUs some terrible MUs. I think Zelda, link, and peach are worse.

 

[Flux0r]

Samus has some broken design decisions. Some great MUs some terrible MUs. I think Zelda, link, and peach are worse.

Excuse me, Peach?

Why do you think she is one of the worst?

 

[PokÉmblem]

The only reason samus is so bad is because Sakurai was convinced that she was the best character right before the game came out. Now, he decides not to touch her at all making her by far the worst since every bad character got buffs since. If her hitboxes to her move got bigger, missiles get more priority and she gets a knockback buff overall than she can actually be good. Also, make up b better and down b make her recover higher please.

 

[Fluidityt]

worst can be defined by the character with the most negative matchups.

Other low tiers were buffed last patch, but not Sams; it's possible Samus has the most worst matchups.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Samus has some broken design decisions. Some great MUs some terrible MUs. I think Zelda, link, and peach are worse.

Link is no where near "bad". He has a good zone game, now has grab combos, and kill confirms. With the buff to his grab endlag he is soundly a midtier at worst. Peach as well has to many things to make her "bad". Zelda however I would agree that she is bad, for to many reasons to list.

On topic though, Samus is genuinly bad, she even had some of the few kill confirms of hers nerfed right out. Samus' "strengths" are mediocre at best, and her weaknesses tip the scales way to far. She isn't balanced well as a character, beyond the fact that a lot of her moves and hitboxes don't work properly.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

I really want to say no. She has a lot of potential, and a lot of depth. But her design is deeply flawed. After Zelda's buff, Samus might have taken her position as 'worst character.' Or maybe Dedede is worse than her. It's hard to say. But she's bottom 5, I think. Her match-ups are really hard.

She has to work a lot harder than her opponent in basically every match-up.

A couple characters who might be worse:
Dedede
Mewtwo
Zelda
Ganondorf
Bowser

 

[Hapajin]

I think that mewtwo might also be a contender for the worst. But it seems more logical that there's like a bottom 5 than 1 single worst character. Samus definitely isn't the only one who needs buffs, but her broken/flawed attributes stick out more prominently than most of the other low tiers, IMO.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm in the minority who think this character is good. I still genuinely think that if I can merely master the various aspects of her that I don't have full mastery of yet, the character will be stronger than most even used at their own respective best.
My own appraisal, which may shock some people, is that all things remaining equal she will be high tier years down the road. This assessment of mine needs some modification if indeed they continue to buff every other character than Samus - and actually nerf her with game-wide effects but it still stands as of 1.10.

That being said, for basic play Samus is definitely the worst. I you walk into a match and try to throw out hitboxes, projectiles, jabs, shield grab, roll and jump around firing charge shots with no real matchup experience, no real combos - you are going to get CREAMED.
You have to know a lot, hitboxes, hurtboxes, priority, projectile priority, aerial priority, pixel precise ranges, combos, follow ups, tech chases, advanced techniques. Once you have all that metagame baggage, and can apply it (which people are really starting to do), the character I feel is redeemed. I'm making a projection on the progress of other characters in this assessment as well, there are only a handful of characters nearly as much potential/complexity/unwieldiness as Samus.

The real questions are not is she the worst in the game, it's: why is she so damn complicated?

A patch that addresses some the design flaws that make basic play onerous is what I feel most are craving. Work around some flaws is more than acceptable, say not rolling as much and using SH-AD, but other flaws like lingering extended hurboxes and a grab punish window not balanced with respect to payoff do not seem necessary, they are a bit much to swallow and simply lead to frustration. Basic play does bleed into advanced play at some level, particularly given a good opponent, no matter how good we are.

 

[Afro Smash]

When Ganon and Zelda exist who have basically no Favourable match ups, I dont think Samus can be worst. Even if her future is as a pocket character, the fact she has a fair few Favourable match ups makes her definitely not the worst imo, and I don't think she's bad to begin with since most of her problems come from poor up close options, but this can be overcome with good use of her zoning tools

 

[Xygonn]

Link is no where near "bad". He has a good zone game, now has grab combos, and kill confirms. With the buff to his grab endlag he is soundly a midtier at worst. Peach as well has to many things to make her "bad". Zelda however I would agree that she is bad, for to many reasons to list.

On topic though, Samus is genuinly bad, she even had some of the few kill confirms of hers nerfed right out. Samus' "strengths" are mediocre at best, and her weaknesses tip the scales way to far. She isn't balanced well as a character, beyond the fact that a lot of her moves and hitboxes don't work properly.

Frame 7 jab. Upb OOS isn't nearly as good as ours. Big big problem for link.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

I don't think Samus is the worst in terms of competitive viability, but I do think she's the worst in terms of design. She has a lot of design flaws that simply don't make any sense in being there with how the rest of the cast works. There's also the fact that since Samus plays nothing like the rest of the cast (on top of her frustrating design choices), it turns a lot of potential player base off, and therefore slows down metagame advancement.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Frame 7 jab. Upb OOS isn't nearly as good as ours. Big big problem for link.

His jab may come out slow, but it combos into itself as well as having kill and combo setups, which Samus comically has none of. If you think his up-b oos being slower is all it takes to make him a bad character, let alone as bad as Samus, I have to question you knowledge of the Link metagame. Everyone who isn't in the top 5 has some pretty obvious weaknesses, its not like I claimed Link was perfect here. Of course he has issues, thats how midtier works. Regardless of his own shortcomings, he has more tools to deal damage, pressure and beat shields, as well as finish his stocks.

 

[_gold_]

One of, yes. At least in my opinion. However, it's hard to say. I think I find some matches easy because some people just don't quite know how to approach her. If you're smart with Samus, then most people are going to have a hard time figuring you out. It's a shame though, because it's simply the development team that screwed her over. Her hitboxes are simply a mess. If those issues were addressed, then most people would think twice about her.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

At least your character wasn't brought back after skipping an installment from a game he was already a bottom tier in only to be even worse this time, PLUS having to pay money for him unless you registered both versions of the game:


Us Mewtwo players share your pain.

 

[Glyphagos]

I'm not going to repeat what the others have said regarding Samus but I think AT LEAST she is not as bad as Zelda, if anything Samus just has a high-skill ceiling and you have to adapt yourself to her odd playstyle. Not to mention she doesn't fight like a "traditional" Smash fighter, her so-called "combos" (I doubt she has) and other moves all require precise technical knowledge and a good understanding of the game's machanics and knowing yourself when using her.

So no, Samus isn't the WORST Smash character. Either Ganon or Zelda has my vote.

 

[Tonetta]

Samus is a mid tier character.

 

[FrankTheStud]

Her moves don't string together at all. Try using her uair sometime, and compare it to sheiks. Or her fair. They fixed her Usmash, but a lot of her moves just don't work right. If people fall out of your uair or fair after the first hit because gravity is pulling you down against an AI bot who is commanded to "stand," (that means it has no DI, hopefully), then that's a problem.

Edit: Zelda is notorious for being a rather poor character, as is Mewtwo. Peach is good, and Link is stupid strong.

 

[Hark17ball]

Up Smash still has people fall out a lot. The power increase was nice tho, now to fix hitbox 1&2....

 

[LancerStaff]

Samus is alright. She has some good matchups against good characters, but it's mostly bad. Zelda's okay too. Mewtwo is probably the worst... Does he do well against any decent character?

If people fall out of your uair or fair after the first hit because gravity is pulling you down against an AI bot who is commanded to "stand," (that means it has no DI, hopefully), then that's a problem.

CPUs set to stand tend to DI or jump out of moves. Control is absolutely no input as long as you don't touch the second controller.

 

[FrankTheStud]

Samus is alright. She has some good matchups against good characters, but it's mostly bad. Zelda's okay too. Mewtwo is probably the worst... Does he do well against any decent character?



CPUs set to stand tend to DI or jump out of moves. Control is absolutely no input as long as you don't touch the second controller.

Even at that, I feel like her aerials should connect better regardless of DI. At least get hit by multiple after the first hit has landed and MAYBE DI out of the last blow if done correctly. After a lot of hitboxes getting edited like Link's upsmash, it's weird to see moves that are supposed to string fall apart with so little effort.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Mewtwo is probably the worst... Does he do well against any decent character?

No.

 

[Hapajin]

I just saw the most recent tier list where Samus is ranked last. kinda ironic

 

[JAZZ_]

i dont think shes the worst. if your smart with her, like many have pointed out she has her moments. but i find myself fighting the instincts that you get when you play every other smash character when i play samus. Its partly why i barely play any of my secondaries nor do I research said secondaries. its too dang hard to get your brain to rewrite its instincts. (I cant break my roll habit to save my gosh dang life.)

So for an average player trying to do decent in FG Samus is a god awful choice. you cant apply any of your instincts to Samus, (Tilt it not smash it) thats probably why shes so low, and a character that requires a high skill level to master and only to have maybe less than 50% good matchups against the rest of the cast isnt much of a reward for all that effort.

 

[DarthGogeta]

I love Samus as a fighter, but I do agree with everyone that she's not perfect and needs some fixes in order to make her stand out more. Simply put, I don't think she should be THAT much worse than Zero Suit, which is without the damn suit. If Samus gets some power buffs and hitbox alterations, I'd be good.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Samus fights can be annoying because of the constant spamming, which becomes a war of attrition. As for Samus herself, she's pretty bad, and a lot of it has to do with how awkward her moves can be. Here are the changes I'll give to Samus. Keep in mind that I don't play as Samus, so I'm going off of what I've seen from this video:

Have first jab connect to the second jab.
Give her a faster grab.
Make Super Missiles kill at a reasonable percent (possibly 140%).
Have her dash attack have a more consistent and bigger hitbox.
Alter a lot of her hitboxes (F-Smash being a prime example).
Buff the D-Smash so it can kill at a reasonable percent (160% maybe).
Make a lot of her moves stronger and can actually kill. Super Missile not killing at 220% is atrocious.
Give her a kill throw (maybe U-Throw).
Make her U-Smash hitbox more consistent and connect more easily.
Make her Charge Shot more of a threat and can make its way past other projectiles like Pac-Man's Bonus Fruit.
Give her Super Missiles and Missiles a bigger hitbox.

 

[Quarium]

I remember Samus's throws in smash 64... oh the good old days

 

[Mega-Spider]

I remember Samus's throws in smash 64... oh the good old days

Weren't throws incredibly powerful in Smash 64? I don't know a lot about that game competitively, so I could be wrong on that.
Still, Samus needs a decent kill throw in this game.

 

[Quarium]

Weren't throws incredibly powerful in Smash 64? I don't know a lot about that game competitively, so I could be wrong on that.
Still, Samus needs a decent kill throw in this game.

Yes, a lot of characters have pretty crazy throws. Samus being no exception but she should at least get that back on 4 so she feels less sloppy.

 

[MysticKnives]

Yes, a lot of characters have pretty crazy throws. Samus being no exception but she should at least get that back on 4 so she feels less sloppy.

To be fair, everybody's throws got merged from game to game but the only one of the O12 to keep a consistently powerful kill throw (that I'm aware of) is Ness. But yes, Samus could use one.

 

[JAZZ_]

Samus fights can be annoying because of the constant spamming, which becomes a war of attrition. As for Samus herself, she's pretty bad, and a lot of it has to do with how awkward her moves can be. Here are the changes I'll give to Samus. Keep in mind that I don't play as Samus, so I'm going off of what I've seen from this video:

Have first jab connect to the second jab.
Give her a faster grab.
Make Super Missiles kill at a reasonable percent (possibly 140%).
Have her dash attack have a more consistent and bigger hitbox.
Alter a lot of her hitboxes (F-Smash being a prime example).
Buff the D-Smash so it can kill at a reasonable percent (160% maybe).
Make a lot of her moves stronger and can actually kill. Super Missile not killing at 220% is atrocious.
Give her a kill throw (maybe U-Throw).
Make her U-Smash hitbox more consistent and connect more easily.
Make her Charge Shot more of a threat and can make its way past other projectiles like Pac-Man's Bonus Fruit.
Give her Super Missiles and Missiles a bigger hitbox.

A bad Samus spams, most of us don't because our meta game if PERFECTLY TIMED throws people off really bad.still this only gives us a few favorable matchups. Being a competitive Samus takes a ton of freaking skill which makes her so bad, alot of work for not that impressive a pay off.

 

[Xeze]

When Ganon and Zelda exist who have basically no Favourable match ups

Ganon has no favorable matchups? The Ganon boards say otherwise. Mario, for example, is a MU they consider in favor of Ganon.

On topic: not being biased here, but I think Samus isn't the worst. Mii Swordfighter (specially if TOs insist on only allowing 1111), Zelda and probably Mewtwo are worse. Even Mii Gunner can be worse if they only allow 1111.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Weren't throws incredibly powerful in Smash 64? I don't know a lot about that game competitively, so I could be wrong on that.
Still, Samus needs a decent kill throw in this game.

Everything was incredibly powerful in Smash 64.

Of course, even then, Samus was the only character who couldn't consistently do 0-death combos. I like to think that Melee Samus was a mistake on Sakurai's part, and that he meant for her to be bad in that game too.

 

[Xygonn]

Ganon has no favorable matchups? The Ganon boards say otherwise. Mario, for example, is a MU they consider in favor of Ganon.

On topic: not being biased here, but I think Samus isn't the worst. Mii Swordfighter (specially if TOs insist on only allowing 1111), Zelda and probably Mewtwo are worse. Even Mii Gunner can be worse if they only allow 1111.

Sometimes I forget about Mewtwo. Lighter, lamer Samus.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Everything was incredibly powerful in Smash 64.

Of course, even then, Samus was the only character who couldn't consistently do 0-death combos. I like to think that Melee Samus was a mistake on Sakurai's part, and that he meant for her to be bad in that game too.

Does Sakurai have some bias towards Samus?

 

[LancerStaff]

Sakurai balances the game around FFAs. The general idea behind characters with moves like Charge Shot is that they're supposed to be weak up close. If you notice, all have significant problems. is the exception simply because he survives longer in 1v1s and aura gets ridiculous.

 

[MOM Samus]

When people want buffs, they're clearly talking about 1v1s. Casual gamers just play for fun and don't really care all that much about stats.

In the opposite, casuals would be screaming for buffs for Sheik.

 

[Rebel13]

Some good points on here. Personally I find that no character in this game is completely bad, because everything is a least somewhat matchup dependant. ESAM goes vs every single time, and usually pulls out a win where his can't.

However, I just want to clarify some things when everyone says is worse, in the sense of having more bad matchups. Yes, before this last patch she sucked, but 1.1.0 was huge for her (and helped Ganon too). Most of the Zelda boards will probably agree that she has pretty even, or only slightly disadvantaged, matchups overall, with actually good ones vs Villager, Rosalina, and some others. Solidly low-mid tier - probably around 35th imo.

Also as a past main I can say with certainty he is worse than and , and too. is probably worst though, if just going by matchups. Just my two cents.