Is Sakurai being biased on some franchises?

[ScubaGoomba]

I think it's a bad thing because it makes more important characters less represented

Important is so subjective, though. Trust me, I have an extensive wish list of who I think could be in the game and who I think should be in the game, but their exclusion doesn't necessarily make the game any worse. It could be disappointing, but it doesn't make the game of an inherently lower quality. King K. Rool is a great example of this; I really want him in and think he really should be in, but to say he's "more important" than Dark Pit or the Villager is awfully presumptuous and applies just the same type of bias that Sakurai has been accused of applying in his own decision-making. Objectively, K. Rool is as "important" to NIntendo, as a whole, as Wart. He's a main series "big bad" that is no longer relevant to the series's current games. He's certainly more "important" to DK, but then you have to consider the points made above regarding Nintendo's concern (or lack thereof) for DK as a franchise.

Consider, also, that Sm4sh may have had a firm deadline and a roster minimum. There are rumors of DLC, which are currently pure speculation, that could be true. "Clones" like Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina (quotes because we haven't played them and they could be semi-clones) allow the dev team to satisfy a potentially prescribed roster minimum in order to prevent delays and release balanced characters that take up less development time. DLC, then, could allow these other characters a chance to be fully developed and the game to be released complete, on time.

To reiterate. Yes, Sakurai may have bias. No, that doesn't necessarily impact the quality of this game and could, in fact, result in him creating a better game in the long run. It'd be impossible for him not to impart his own biases in designing the game. As long as the game is fun, he's done his job.

 

[Tenchi Boom]

- Dark Pit is a separate character
- Fierce Diety Link is not
- Dark Samus is not
- Kid Icarus getting more reps than DK and Metroid

- Palutena having 12 special moves
- Ganondorf is still a clone

- Kirby appearing on almost all character artwork, and everywhere in general (don't think he's THAT famous)
- Smash games being heavily modelled after his previous games

- Pit and Kirby getting knew final smashes
- Half or more of the veterans are keeping the same as their Brawl ones

No, not one hint of bias. At all. Nope.

Oh, now we can add the fact Dark Pit has a completely different final smash than Pit.
Lucina, Toon Link and Dr Mario keep the same as their counterparts (with minor difference).

Nope, not seeing any bias as of yet.

 

[Frostwraith]

Oh, now we can add the fact Dark Pit has a completely different final smash than Pit.

That's functionally the same thing as Zelda's Final Smash. lol

 

[Tenchi Boom]

That's functionally the same thing as Zelda's Final Smash. lol

Still the only clone to get that treatment out of the other three I stated. If they had time to bother with making new animations for Pit's base model for Dark Pit's final smash, then why couldn't they do it with them? Even if it was the same as someone elses, it'll still be better than being a complete copy.

 

[the8thark]

Yes. Kid Icarus and Pokemon. A disproportionate amount of content from those 2 universes in SSB4.

 

[LancerStaff]

Still the only clone to get that treatment out of the other three I stated. If they had time to bother with making new animations for Pit's base model for Dark Pit's final smash, then why couldn't they do it with them? Even if it was the same as someone elses, it'll still be better than being a complete copy.

Lucina has every single hitbox altered and the good doctor has a completely unique special.

 

[Cherenando]

Yeah he's biased

I can confirm because I lost my main

Flawless logic

 

[Waterwraith]

Sakurai is not biased. This is just a case of people not being willing to accept that their favorite franchise isn't more or less important than some others just because they like them.

Donkey Kong does not deserve more reps than Kid Icarus or Fire Emblem and vice versa. It's just how the game turned out. A throwaway clone doesn't really show much appreciation for Kid Icarus, really. Unless you wanted a throwaway clone for Donkey Kong in his place that badly.

 

[Erimir]

Sakurai is not biased. This is just a case of people not being willing to accept that their favorite franchise isn't more or less important than some others just because they like them.

I don't think anyone has said that.

And it's pretty damn hard to defend the proposition that DK isn't more important than Kid Icarus.

Aside from having over 20x as many home games sold than KI, around 30 titles released across every Nintendo platform* compared to KI's 3 titles, having a smash hit arcade game that was Nintendo's first huge success, tons of merchandise sales over the years, his own TV show, a documentary about it... There's also the fact that Donkey Kong is one of the biggest icons of gaming who is actually part of pop culture ("It's on like Donkey Kong!") rather than something only Nintendo fans know about. Donkey Kong is more important on basically any objective measure you could come up with (Nintendo history, sales, releases, cultural impact, popularity, recognizability).

But yeah, it's just people being biased and being like "I like DK better than Kid Icarus, so it's more important!" Clearly there's no way you can decide which one is more important

*Well, except Virtual Boy, but... it's Virtual Boy... But also even releases on non-Nintendo platforms.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't think anyone has said that.

And it's pretty damn hard to defend the proposition that DK isn't more important than Kid Icarus.

Aside from having over 20x as many home games sold than KI, around 30 titles released across every Nintendo platform* compared to KI's 3 titles, having a smash hit arcade game that was Nintendo's first huge success, tons of merchandise sales over the years, his own TV show, a documentary about it... There's also the fact that Donkey Kong is one of the biggest icons of gaming who is actually part of pop culture ("It's on like Donkey Kong!") rather than something only Nintendo fans know about. Donkey Kong is more important on basically any objective measure you could come up with (Nintendo history, sales, releases, cultural impact, popularity, recognizability).

But yeah, it's just people being biased and being like "I like DK better than Kid Icarus, so it's more important!" Clearly there's no way you can decide which one is more important

*Well, except Virtual Boy, but... it's Virtual Boy... But also even releases on non-Nintendo platforms.

Dixie wasn't a costume, so she wasn't eligible for cloning.

 

[Erimir]

Dixie wasn't a costume, so she wasn't eligible for cloning.

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said, but ok.

 

[LancerStaff]

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said, but ok.

Dixie literally couldn't be a clone because she didn't have a SSB model. You're complaining about something that couldn't of happened.

 

[Waterwraith]

I don't think anyone has said that.

And it's pretty damn hard to defend the proposition that DK isn't more important than Kid Icarus.

Aside from having over 20x as many home games sold than KI, around 30 titles released across every Nintendo platform* compared to KI's 3 titles, having a smash hit arcade game that was Nintendo's first huge success, tons of merchandise sales over the years, his own TV show, a documentary about it... There's also the fact that Donkey Kong is one of the biggest icons of gaming who is actually part of pop culture ("It's on like Donkey Kong!") rather than something only Nintendo fans know about. Donkey Kong is more important on basically any objective measure you could come up with (Nintendo history, sales, releases, cultural impact, popularity, recognizability).

But yeah, it's just people being biased and being like "I like DK better than Kid Icarus, so it's more important!" Clearly there's no way you can decide which one is more important

*Well, except Virtual Boy, but... it's Virtual Boy... But also even releases on non-Nintendo platforms.

When it comes to what's best for Smash Bros, no series is really above the other. You could argue that Donkey Kong is more important than Kid Icarus in general, sure, but that means nothing for Smash Bros really.

 

[HugoBoss]

To be said in the simplest way:Sakurai Bias was never real. It was really only just overreactions from fans about roster choices not matching up with theirs,conspiracy theories such as certain characters being "better" than others,and fan favorite characters not being included.
That is until this game.
I have never seen such an obvious example of "Sakurai Bias" in any Smash game until this game.
Sakurai is not biased with some franchises, but one particular franchise(even more specific, one game in the franchise). I think we can all guess what that lucky game is.

Spoiler

The truth.
Joking aside, I'm trying to be as objective as possible, but Sakurai definitely was biased with the Kid Icarus representation. Some of it was justified, but for the most part the game got more priority then nearly every single Nintendo franchise represented in this game.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

- Dark Pit is a separate character
- Fierce Diety Link is not
- Dark Samus is not
- Kid Icarus getting more reps than DK and Metroid

- Palutena having 12 special moves
- Ganondorf is still a clone

- Kirby appearing on almost all character artwork, and everywhere in general (don't think he's THAT famous)
- Smash games being heavily modelled after his previous games

- Pit and Kirby getting knew final smashes
- Half or more of the veterans are keeping the same as their Brawl ones

No, not one hint of bias. At all. Nope.

First of all, Pits final smash was updated to a more canon one, also considering Palutena was inducted.

Oh, now we can add the fact Dark Pit has a completely different final smash than Pit.
Lucina, Toon Link and Dr Mario keep the same as their counterparts (with minor difference).

Nope, not seeing any bias as of yet.

Because we all know that Dark Pit uses the three Sacred Treasures.
I'm not a Dark Pit supporter, quite the opposite but jeez, entitled much? If this game doesn't have the roster you want, simply don't play it or buy it. Would you say Namco is biased because Pac-man and items from that universe got in over, say a Tales of Symphonia rep? It's just a little sad, finding a silly reason because a wanted character didn't get in, and then even making a thread so you can find people that agree with this drivel, so you can feel validated. Just me and my opinion passing through.

 

[Nielicus]

No, lol, just no. I see influence from past experience, not bias

 

[Shaboba]

Metroid is my favorite series and I'm super salty that it's been relegated to an afterthought - in that same vein, DK fans have my sympathy. Never really played Star Fox games so idk much about that but I'm pretty sure they've been neglected too. Not like the weeaboo swordfighting niche games that Sakurai clearly loves. Not to mention his precious baby, the Kid Icarus "series." Ugh.

nope I'm not bitter not at all what are you talking about

 

[LancerStaff]

Metroid is my favorite series and I'm super salty that it's been relegated to an afterthought - in that same vein, DK fans have my sympathy. Never really played Star Fox games so idk much about that but I'm pretty sure they've been neglected too. Not like the weeaboo swordfighting niche games that Sakurai clearly loves. Not to mention his precious baby, the Kid Icarus "series." Ugh.

nope I'm not bitter not at all what are you talking about

Don't really see how Metroid and Starfox have been neglected when they're niche to begin with. That, and the Starfox fanbase cannibalizes itself whenever a game is announced, including Miamoto's. The old fans are already upset that it's not a traditional game, myself included but not to that extreme. I'm not swearing it off until we get more then a blurry screen.

 

[Wazygoose]

Just read the OP but not the rest of the comments. He is completely biased no question. All of the elements in the game reflect his attitude towards gaming in general, what Smash means to him, and the artistic and gaming direction he wants to take the series. With many elements and decisions in the game there are an infinite number of alternative choices he could have made, some of which would arguably have been better, and what we end up with is what he thinks is best--according to his point of view.

To be fair, he totally tries to limit his bias, and a lot of choices are made well. But you're right, he's taking a lot of things from past Kirby games and not more recent ones. I think, but don't know, that one of the reasons he doesn't go into detail about his decision making process is because he knows people won't like it, and as he is making the game to the best of his ability, doesn't want to have to justify his choices on an individual basis to people who won't agree with his decisions regardless.

A lot of people don't care, and other will say you're whining or crazy or silly. But I agree with you. #fistbump

 

[HugoBoss]

Don't really see how Metroid and Starfox have been neglected when they're niche to begin with. That, and the Starfox fanbase cannibalizes itself whenever a game is announced, including Miamoto's. The old fans are already upset that it's not a traditional game, myself included but not to that extreme. I'm not swearing it off until we get more then a blurry screen.

Completely Disagree. Some of the most recognizable video game characters of all time that have been featured in every single installment of the Smash Bros series are niche? If anything, it is because of Smash that these franchises are well known. They are not only Smash staples, but Nintendo icons. It's very odd that Kid Icarus:Uprising is getting more representation then these franchises and others too.

 

[LancerStaff]

Completely Disagree. Some of the most recognizable video game characters of all time that have been featured in every single installment of the Smash Bros series are niche? If anything, it is because of Smash that these franchises are well known. They are not only Smash staples, but Nintendo icons. It's very odd that Kid Icarus:Uprising is getting more representation then these franchises and others too.

I'd wager that those games wouldn't even be known if not for SSB. Kid Icarus, for example.

And now there's a veritable sea of characters that need stages. We're not giving each and every series an exact representation in stages. That'd require either about double the stages or half-stages. Items? That's more of what works gets in and what doesn't, doesn't. Weee, an axe from FE. Weee, a gun from Starfox.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

My biggest problem with the KI representation isn't necessarily that it's getting that much, although I do have a big problem with that too, but it's that everything is from Uprising, nothing from the classic NES game, that not only screams of obvious bias, but it's also disrespectful to the original game too. I get that it had a revival and everything, but with so much KI content in this game you'd guess that there'd at least be one thing from the original game, but nope, not even the Wii U stage is from the one console game the franchise had.

In the end that means that a single game that has barely sold over a million copies has three playable characters, two new stages, more songs than every other franchise than Mario (the 3DS version packs a whopping seven KI:U songs), six items, two assist trophies, and currently sixteen Smash Run enemies. I mean, think that through, this one game is on the same level as Mother, a franchise that was already considered borderline over-represented with two playable characters and one new stage in Brawl. Meanwhile Donkey Kong Country, a franchise that has sold ~30 times as many copies as KI:U, gets no new stage on the 3DS, no new characters, no assist trophies at all, three items, one new remix, and two/three different Smash Run enemies, even after a much more successful revival than KI had. That's not even to mention Metroid and Star Fox either, both which got no new characters (heck, the latter lost a character), no new 3DS stages, very few items each, and few if any Smash Run enemies. On top of that Metroid didn't even get a new song on the 3DS version at all, and Star Fox is supposed to have an upcoming revival, it's quite frankly embarassing.

Mind you of course he has been biased with Kirby before, Subspace Emissary is basically Kirby and Dedede saving the Nintendo characters from the terror wrought by Meta Knight's ship, and while that can't truly be justified you can at least make the argument that Kirby is a very successful franchise, no matter what way you twist it Kid Icarus: Uprising is a niché game, and it's not even the most successful game in its franchise as the NES game currently holds the highest sales of the two. If he only wants to represent Uprising it only deserves as much representation as Mother, but no, instead it's one of the most prominent franchises featured in this game. I get that a lot of people love Uprising around here, and that's fine, but this over-saturation of content from this one tiny game is absurd, it can't be justified, you can stack up three of Nintendo's most iconic franchises on top of each other and they might just barely have as much representation as this one game.

 

[LancerStaff]

My biggest problem with the KI representation isn't necessarily that it's getting that much, although I do have a big problem with that too, but it's that everything is from Uprising, nothing from the classic NES game, that not only screams of obvious bias, but it's also disrespectful to the original game too. I get that it had a revival and everything, but with so much KI content in this game you'd guess that there'd at least be one thing from the original game, but nope, not even the Wii U stage is from the one console game the franchise had.

In the end that means that a single game that has barely sold over a million copies has three playable characters, two new stages, more songs than every other franchise than Mario (the 3DS version packs a whopping seven KI:U songs), six items, two assist trophies, and currently sixteen Smash Run enemies. I mean, think that through, this one game is on the same level as Mother, a franchise that was already considered borderline over-represented with two playable characters and one new stage in Brawl. Meanwhile Donkey Kong Country, a franchise that has sold ~30 times as many copies as KI:U, gets no new stage on the 3DS, no new characters, no assist trophies at all, three items, one new remix, and two/three different Smash Run enemies, even after a much more successful revival than KI had. That's not even to mention Metroid and Star Fox either, both which got no new characters (heck, the latter lost a character), no new 3DS stages, very few items each, and few if any Smash Run enemies. On top of that Metroid didn't even get a new song on the 3DS version at all, and Star Fox is supposed to have an upcoming revival, it's quite frankly embarassing.

Mind you of course he has been biased with Kirby before, Subspace Emissary is basically Kirby and Dedede saving the Nintendo characters from the terror wrought by Meta Knight's ship, and while that can't truly be justified you can at least make the argument that Kirby is a very successful franchise, no matter what way you twist it Kid Icarus: Uprising is a niché game, and it's not even the most successful game in its franchise as the NES game currently holds the highest sales of the two. If he only wants to represent Uprising it only deserves as much representation as Mother, but no, instead it's one of the most prominent franchises featured in this game. I get that a lot of people love Uprising around here, and that's fine, but this over-saturation of content from this one tiny game is absurd, it can't be justified, you can stack up three of Nintendo's most iconic franchises on top of each other and they might just barely have as much representation as this one game.

Palutena's Temple first appeared in the original game, and it resembles the Brawl redesign. The Three Sacred Treasures were also from the original and got in over basically anything else from Uprising that Pit could of used. And even most of the enemies are from the original. Not entirely sure what you're not seeing...

Two characters and a straight-up clone, enemies and songs that were directly ported over because they could, one stage per game, and a bunch of items that are much more unique then anything most other series could offer. I don't even see what's wrong with the retro stages. Stages are stages.

Mario definitely cuts into DK. That, and DK characters have a much more narrow appeal then the average Mario or Fire Emblem character. It's not about representing series, it's about adding characters fans and non-fans of a series would like. Robin and Lucina, for example, appeal to the average person much more then Ridley or K. Rool ever could.

Yes, Kirby had a major role in the story. Sakurai didn't write the story, though. The guy who did Final Fantasy 7 did. Blame him.

Again, it's about picking characters with wide appeal, not picking based on series size.

 

[Shaboba]

I'd wager that the only reason western gamers know what Fire Emblem is, is thanks to Marth and Roy in Melee. The only reason Kid Icarus is even anything other than a one-off NES game, is because of Pit's Brawl redesign. I won't bash Kirby, because that series is successful in its own right and deserves to be. However, to insinuate even remotely that Metroid, DK or Star Fox owe anything at all to any Smash game is downright insulting and, quite frankly, shows massive ignorance of the individual successes of those franchises. But sadly, Mario overshadows DK, Zelda overshadows Metroid, and Star Fox is just forgotten in a pit somewhere. Such is fate.

And on a related subject, I strongly challenge the notion that Metroid is in any way "niche" when it literally invented an entire genre of games. But hey.

 

[GunGunW]

Of course. It's not as blatant with Kirby because Kirby is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises and it's really hard to over represent... or something. Blah blah blah. I do think there could have been less stuff from Kid Icarus, though. Like, did it really need a stage on each version when not even Sammy and King Kong couldn't? At the end of the day, it really comes down to what you're a fan of. If you like Kid Icarus, you're not going to think there's too much stuff from it, if you dislike Kid Icarus, you're going to think there's too much stuff from it. If you're neutral, you'll probably be neutral... or... whatever.

(I'm surprised Sakurai doesn't ask Hal to let him make another Kirby game? I'd be really bothered if someone else was making games for my character.)

Though, to be honest, there's no point in denying he's biased with his own series. However, whether or not it's a bad thing is another debate entirely.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'd wager that the only reason western gamers know what Fire Emblem is, is thanks to Marth and Roy in Melee. The only reason Kid Icarus is even anything other than a one-off NES game, is because of Pit's Brawl redesign. I won't bash Kirby, because that series is successful in its own right and deserves to be. However, to insinuate even remotely that Metroid, DK or Star Fox owe anything at all to any Smash game is downright insulting and, quite frankly, shows massive ignorance of the individual successes of those franchises. But sadly, Mario overshadows DK, Zelda overshadows Metroid, and Star Fox is just forgotten in a pit somewhere. Such is fate.

And on a related subject, I strongly challenge the notion that Metroid is in any way "niche" when it literally invented an entire genre of games. But hey.

DK, no. Metroid and Starfox? Yeah, a bit. Prime, the most successful, came on the heels of two Metroid games in it's hiatus. Super bombed. Hard. Starfox was legitimately popular up until Adventures came along and threw a monkey-wrench in everything. After that, it's coasted on "it's that dude from Final Destination," and the sales show.

An obscure one at that, having only two series that follow the genre with any regularity.

Of course. It's not as blatant with Kirby because Kirby is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises and it's really hard to over represent... or something. Blah blah blah. I do think there could have been less stuff from Kid Icarus, though. Like, did it really need a stage on each version when not even Sammy and King Kong couldn't? At the end of the day, it really comes down to what you're a fan of. If you like Kid Icarus, you're not going to think there's too much stuff from it, if you dislike Kid Icarus, you're going to think there's too much stuff from it. If you're neutral, you'll probably be neutral... or... whatever.

(I'm surprised Sakurai doesn't ask Hal to let him make another Kirby game? I'd be really bothered if someone else was making games for my character.)

I'm not bothered at all by the past stages. There's two games to divide between them, and a stage is a stage in my book.

And Sakurai left HAL because he was done with endless Kirby sequels, so I doubt he wants to do another. 'Sides, he's pretty happy how they've handled Kirby.

 

[GunGunW]

DK, no. Metroid and Starfox? Yeah, a bit. Prime, the most successful, came on the heels of two Metroid games in it's hiatus. Super bombed. Hard. Starfox was legitimately popular up until Adventures came along and threw a monkey-wrench in everything. After that, it's coasted on "it's that dude from Final Destination," and the sales show.

An obscure one at that, having only two series that follow the genre with any regularity.



I'm not bothered at all by the past stages. There's two games to divide between them, and a stage is a stage in my book.

And Sakurai left HAL because he was done with endless Kirby sequels, so I doubt he wants to do another. 'Sides, he's pretty happy how they've handled Kirby.[/quote]

Well I doubt that.

 

[Crudedude]

There CAN be less stuff from Kid Icarus (uprising) I mean it's not like it's the face of Nintendo. If it was me along as others wouldn't post things like this if it was the current face of Nintendo. Uprising isn't a bad game and dark pit isn't a bad addition but dark pit having the move set of pit is as well as everything like run speed and jump, etc, IS a bad idea but Classic mode and all star could have gone without the uprising intensity. It's a nice addition because of the challenge and reward but feels/is something out of uprising. Sakurai seems to be bias in the case of who he wants to push. In some cases it's not bad like fire emblem introducing marth and roy was pretty nice because we got to see how great they were but their influences on smash is small enough to make you want more but for the case of Kid Icarus is pretty much "these things in this game is from uprising!" I do believe he his being bias on what series he wants to be developed. Then again it could be Nintendo who is telling him who they want to be pushed.

 

[HdTyvek]

Well, i know during early smashes (64/melee) Sakurai did not want to over represent his own franchise. seeing like 8 mario characters and like 6 pokemon is cool, but it is strange that he isnt making more kirby stuff.

 

[Shaboba]

@ LancerStaff - I think you're forgetting about Super Metroid. One of the most critically successful video games literally in the history of video games. In fact, it's so successful that the entire Metroid series is still around and popular almost exclusively thanks to that one game. There were no games in the Metroid series released between Super Metroid, and the first Super Smash Bros... and since Super Metroid was released in 1994, that's an awful long time for a so-called "niche" series to stagnate and yet still be prominently included in a game featuring Nintendo's all-stars. In fact, the only game in the Metroid series which HASN'T been critically well-received was Other M, which came long after the Smash Bros. series was well-established. The Prime trilogy, Fusion, and Zero Mission were all regarded very positively - sales does not always equal quality, as we know that Japan has always been lukewarm towards the Metroid games.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

From what I heard, Uprising was developed by Sakurai with Smash Bros. in mind. I guess we might have seen some of the features in that game show up in Smash Bros. anyway.

 

[Ffamran]

There CAN be less stuff from Kid Icarus (uprising) I mean it's not like it's the face of Nintendo. If it was me along as others wouldn't post things like this if it was the current face of Nintendo. Uprising isn't a bad game and dark pit isn't a bad addition but dark pit having the move set of pit is as well as everything like run speed and jump, etc, IS a bad idea but Classic mode and all star could have gone without the uprising intensity. It's a nice addition because of the challenge and reward but feels/is something out of uprising. Sakurai seems to be bias in the case of who he wants to push. In some cases it's not bad like fire emblem introducing marth and roy was pretty nice because we got to see how great they were but their influences on smash is small enough to make you want more but for the case of Kid Icarus is pretty much "these things in this game is from uprising!" I do believe he his being bias on what series he wants to be developed. Then again it could be Nintendo who is telling him who they want to be pushed.

With Intensity, I think Sakurai wanted a more different style of choosing difficulty settings than just Very Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard, and so forth. Those can be boring for some and sometimes there's spike in difficulties which Intensities alleviate due to the decimal scale. Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have wacky difficulties that add a bit of flair to them. Also, Uprising took Brawl's menu while SSB4 took Uprising's difficulty settings. I think that's fine.

I agree on Pittoo being horribly portrayed with the fact that half of Uprising's weapons are left unused. Same with Lucina.

The face of Nintendo is an issue. People know it's Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda, but they also don't like it since Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, and bunch of other titles are either dead or rarely there. If it was just those three, then SSB would be boring and people would complain about how there's 18 Mario characters and 7 of them are alts and 3 have their own series, Yoshi, DK, and Diddy Kong, while 1's a straight-up clone; 10 Zelda characters and half of them are clones; and Pokémon has 15 characters while Fire Emblem has 2, Metroid has 2, Mother/EarthBound has 1, and so forth.

My argument is that there's only one major thing from Uprising: Pittoo. The rest is a stage which makes sense since it's from the most recent game and an Assist Trophy: Phosphora. The other Kid Icarus character: Palutena, has more history and is much much older than Pittoo - lore-wise and creation-wise. I don't think people would be mad if Medusa was in a game even though she'd be another Kid Icarus character even if she was a clone of Palutena. One, she's a character Sakurai didn't make and two's she's a villain while Pittoo's your overused anti-hero with burdens and a rebellious streak.

The other bias is already there since Brawl: Kirby characters. All the major Kirby characters are in and technically, they would have appeared in each installment, but Brawl introduced the final two: King Dedede and Meta Knight - supposedly Dedede was planned for Melee. Hell, Sakurai voiced Dedede. Funny how nobody complains about that.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well I doubt that.

He left over the Adventure remake, in fact. Just Google it when you get a chance, not that you'll find it right now though. Just typing in "Sakurai" will link you to basically every person complaining about the roster...

 

[Crudedude]

With Intensity, I think Sakurai wanted a more different style of choosing difficulty settings than just Very Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard, and so forth. Those can be boring for some and sometimes there's spike in difficulties which Intensities alleviate due to the decimal scale. Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have wacky difficulties that add a bit of flair to them. Also, Uprising took Brawl's menu while SSB4 took Uprising's difficulty settings. I think that's fine.

I agree on Pittoo being horribly portrayed with the fact that half of Uprising's weapons are left unused. Same with Lucina.

The face of Nintendo is an issue. People know it's Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda, but they also don't like it since Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, and bunch of other titles are either dead or rarely there. If it was just those three, then SSB would be boring and people would complain about how there's 18 Mario characters and 7 of them are alts and 3 have their own series, Yoshi, DK, and Diddy Kong, while 1's a straight-up clone; 10 Zelda characters and half of them are clones; and Pokémon has 15 characters while Fire Emblem has 2, Metroid has 2, Mother/EarthBound has 1, and so forth.

My argument is that there's only one major thing from Uprising: Pittoo. The rest is a stage which makes sense since it's from the most recent game and an Assist Trophy: Phosphora. The other Kid Icarus character: Palutena, has more history and is much much older than Pittoo - lore-wise and creation-wise. I don't think people would be mad if Medusa was in a game even though she'd be another Kid Icarus character even if she was a clone of Palutena. One, she's a character Sakurai didn't make and two's she's a villain while Pittoo's your overused anti-hero with burdens and a rebellious streak.

The other bias is already there since Brawl: Kirby characters. All the major Kirby characters are in and technically, they would have appeared in each installment, but Brawl introduced the final two: King Dedede and Meta Knight - supposedly Dedede was planned for Melee. Hell, Sakurai voiced Dedede. Funny how nobody complains about that.

Agreed that intensity levels makes things fun but setting it up and seeing the description (and pictures) reminds me too much of uprising as if they didn't put much effort to make the intensity challenge and reward their own.

The Face of Nintendo is Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and DK. They have made games that are pretty good through the time span of wii to wii u. Metriod could be another face but Other M ruined it. Fire emblem is getting there their games have been growing. Then heading over to brawl bias spam knight is so strong while everyone got the nerf gun. Who needs four recoveries one of them op and a glide with 5 mini jumps with super fast laggless attack? My guy Meta Knight. I felt he was bias with pit also since he was working on uprising after brawl.

 

[LancerStaff]

@ LancerStaff - I think you're forgetting about Super Metroid. One of the most critically successful video games literally in the history of video games. In fact, it's so successful that the entire Metroid series is still around and popular almost exclusively thanks to that one game. There were no games in the Metroid series released between Super Metroid, and the first Super Smash Bros... and since Super Metroid was released in 1994, that's an awful long time for a so-called "niche" series to stagnate and yet still be prominently included in a game featuring Nintendo's all-stars. In fact, the only game in the Metroid series which HASN'T been critically well-received was Other M, which came long after the Smash Bros. series was well-established. The Prime trilogy, Fusion, and Zero Mission were all regarded very positively - sales does not always equal quality, as we know that Japan has always been lukewarm towards the Metroid games.

Super Metroid, defining game in the genre, bombed.

 

[Deathcarter]

Palutena's Temple first appeared in the original game, and it resembles the Brawl redesign. The Three Sacred Treasures were also from the original and got in over basically anything else from Uprising that Pit could of used. And even most of the enemies are from the original. Not entirely sure what you're not seeing...

Two characters and a straight-up clone, enemies and songs that were directly ported over because they could, one stage per game, and a bunch of items that are much more unique then anything most other series could offer. I don't even see what's wrong with the retro stages. Stages are stages.

Mario definitely cuts into DK. That, and DK characters have a much more narrow appeal then the average Mario or Fire Emblem character. It's not about representing series, it's about adding characters fans and non-fans of a series would like. Robin and Lucina, for example, appeal to the average person much more then Ridley or K. Rool ever could.

Yes, Kirby had a major role in the story. Sakurai didn't write the story, though. The guy who did Final Fantasy 7 did. Blame him.

Again, it's about picking characters with wide appeal, not picking based on series size.

I think that is the biggest thing when it comes to Fire Emblem's number of reps as FE's representation is ridiculously lopsided with a bunch of playable characters but about as much secondary representation as the other minor franchises. Its not like Kid Icarus which outright stomps any non-Big 3 franchise in every category outside playable characters (where it loses to Fire Emblem and Kirby).

 

[SmasherP83]

Mrh, unlike most people I think it makes sense that Dark Pit is seperate since personality wise they are WAY different in that spot, and to me it'd be weird to have alt costume who has a completely different personality.

I'm not one to complain about Sakurai's bias. It's his game so wehoevers in is in.

I know DK and Metroid series deserve more but just gonna say this.

Metroid series: Honestly what can Sakurai ADD who's not gonna most likely be a Samus clone other than Ridley.

DK series: Honestly I'd see Dixie being a clone and people complain "It wasn't K.Rool bleh." For K.Rool well i don't know...He's never interested me.

Kid Icarus bias, yes it has 3 characters (Yes I know it's his series but why aren't we complaining about literally having +10 Mario characters? (I'm counting the koopalings even if there a alt.)

As for clones. All I'll say to Mewtwo fans stop your damn whinig that Dr.Mario or Dark Pit got in and not your precious overrated main. I sound a little bit harsh from that but seriously I'm tired of Mewtwo fans and there constant complaining if anything I think characters like (Wolf and Ice Climbers) deserve a better spot than Mewtwo. Plus I don't see why complaining over clones is even a thing, I'll just say they had extra time for "characters" and decided for them to be clones since they don't completely have to make a whole new character and work on all their animations when copy and pasting is pretty much easier for development time. (Although of all clones I''d never expect Dr.Mario to come back.

 

[Ffamran]

Agreed that intensity levels makes things fun but setting it up and seeing the description (and pictures) reminds me too much of uprising as if they didn't put much effort to make the intensity challenge and reward their own.

The Face of Nintendo is Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and DK. They have made games that are pretty good through the time span of wii to wii u. Metriod could be another face but Other M ruined it. Fire emblem is getting there their games have been growing. Then heading over to brawl bias spam knight is so strong while everyone got the nerf gun. Who needs four recoveries one of them op and a glide with 5 mini jumps with super fast laggless attack? My guy Meta Knight. I felt he was bias with pit also since he was working on uprising after brawl.

The issue is that Uprising's menu looks exactly like Brawl's. It's just something that works for Sakurai. Intensity gave rewards in currency and that's just something normal, but with a game with tons of trophies, it would have been nice if higher Intensities gave trophies or something besides completing challenges.

Other M had good ideas, but poor execution. It didn't help that Nintendo isn't well-known for stories. The notable good stories are from Mother/EarthBound, but that series was ahead of its time and therefore died in an age of little internet and little self-exploration. Skyward Sword, Super Paper Mario, and Black & White had good stories, but some people say it's too late. Other's are shallow or considered by some to be full of plot-holes. I think Awakening suffers from this where people said it was just a vanquish evil with a time travel twist and Radiant Dawn had a Mary Sue: Micaiah, from what I read and people hated that she got away with near genocide or something. To make it worse, she adamantly believes Ike, who was beloved by fans and characters alike to be a warmongering villain. You can guess what happened afterwards with fans.

Anyway, Yoshi, Star Fox, Kirby, and Metroid were faces of Nintendo, but something happened where Yoshi and Star Fox games weren't made anymore and Metroid bit a bullet when they tried to give a story to a game. Funny enough, Miyamoto asked what fans wanted and people said Metroid since Star Fox already has a Wii U game planned and Yoshi is starting to get more games - I can't wait to play the adorable Yoshi's Woolly World. As for Kirby, well there's games, but they're not super popular. F-Zero can't really be made now due to Mario Kart 8. Even though they have different gameplay styles, they're still racers.

As for Pit. Brawl Pit was annoying with his "HIYAYAYAYA!" BS and it was necessary for a character update due to Uprising. Most characters are made to reflect their latest appearance except Link and Zelda for whatever stupid reason. Pit used to have a made-up move set since he didn't do much, but shoot arrows in the first Kid Icarus. With Uprising's arsenal, it made sense for an update and removal of the most annoying attack noise - I'm so glad that Antony Del Rio is the voice actor. Similarly, Bowser became closer to his goofy, cartoony self rather than this monstrous beast, Yoshi's more cartoony, Marth looks more like his recent DS remakes, Ike looks like his Radiant Dawn self, and Pikachu lost weight... again.

Meta Knight? I have no idea what he was thinking. He alone could stomp everyone into the ground. I can understand boss characters like Algol from Soul Calibur IV being playable, but this was ridiculous. Well, at least both became less op in their sequels.

Mrh, unlike most people I think it makes sense that Dark Pit is seperate since personality wise they are WAY different in that spot, and to me it'd be weird to have alt costume who has a completely different personality.

I'm not one to complain about Sakurai's bias. It's his game so wehoevers in is in.

I know DK and Metroid series deserve more but just gonna say this.

Metroid series: Honestly what can Sakurai ADD who's not gonna most likely be a Samus clone other than Ridley.

DK series: Honestly I'd see Dixie being a clone and people complain "It wasn't K.Rool bleh." For K.Rool well i don't know...He's never interested me.

Kid Icarus bias, yes it has 3 characters (Yes I know it's his series but why aren't we complaining about literally having +10 Mario characters? (I'm counting the koopalings even if there a alt.)

As for clones. All I'll say to Mewtwo fans stop your damn whinig that Dr.Mario or Dark Pit got in and not your precious overrated main. I sound a little bit harsh from that but seriously I'm tired of Mewtwo fans and there constant complaining if anything I think characters like (Wolf and Ice Climbers) deserve a better spot than Mewtwo. Plus I don't see why complaining over clones is even a thing, I'll just say they had extra time for "characters" and decided for them to be clones since they don't completely have to make a whole new character and work on all their animations when copy and pasting is pretty much easier for development time. (Although of all clones I''d never expect Dr.Mario to come back.

Once again, Kid Icarus: Uprising was made/directed by Sakurai. Kid Icarus was made/directed by Satoru Okada. Sakurai was in charge of reviving it; Pit, Palutena, Medusa, and most of the enemies in Kid Icarus are not his, but the former team's. Only Pittoo, the other Uprising characters, and the Kirby franchise is Sakurai's.

As for Metroid: Look at Metroid Prime: Hunters and Prime 3: Corruption's bounty hunters. They're not well-known, but there's enough that can be used for Metroid aside from scaling down Ridley or Dark Samus.

 

[LancerStaff]

As for Metroid: Look at Metroid Prime: Hunters and Prime 3: Corruption's bounty hunters. They're not well-known, but there's enough that can be used for Metroid aside from scaling down Ridley or Dark Samus.

I don't think the hunters would be a good choice because they were in one game and then forgotten.

 

[Ffamran]

I don't think the hunters would be a good choice because they were in one game and then forgotten.

But they have cool powers!

They're like the X-Men of Metroid, only a couple are famous like Wolverine. When I say couple, I mean only Samus.