Is retreating SHFF Nair safe on powershield?

[Supermodel From Paris]

Snakeee IMed me and asked, and I tried it, and it seems legit:

You SH, retreat, FF nair. Nair hits the shield. Has a ****ton of shieldstun. You can at least jab before their shield drops.

So basically, this is really game-changing if it's true.

 

[Snakeee]

On a side note, I'm playing ZSS again, and I'm coming up with a whole new metagame

EDIT: Nair - d-tilt on shield seems pretty amazing

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If nair is safe on powershield when retreating while fastfalling, this would add a whole new dimension to her ground game. Think a marth-style playstyle where nair is used as a spacing tool (a truly safe one, and not just an "oops, your opponent sucks or fell into it" one like side-b).

 

[Zero]

This is interesting. Nair to dash back pivot grab would be nigh unbeatable, only losing to backroll. If you can force a backroll, omg.

 

[ph00tbag]

Nair's already a really good approach because unlike most aerials, it won't get beaten by any grounded disjointed hitbox. Instead, it's more likely just to clank.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This is interesting. Nair to dash back pivot grab would be nigh unbeatable, only losing to backroll. If you can force a backroll, omg.

Spotdodge.

 

[Zero]

No, spotdodge will not work as you're pivot grabbing, it will take slightly longer for your grab to come out, and thus the flippy thing at the end of your grab will pull them out while they can't move.

You think I just forgot spotdodge?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yes I Do Sir

 

[LanceStern]

I don't understand how nair can give powershielding shield stun. Pwoershielding eliminates shield stun no?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nair has -10 advantage on shield. The stun it gives on shield is less than bair.

Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=265245
Frame data stuff before asking : (

 

[Snakeee]

Nair has -10 advantage on shield. The stun it gives on shield is less than bair.

Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=265245
Frame data stuff before asking : (

I am the worst with technical stuff. The range is greater than b-air I believe though, and it just seems that the distance is too great for a shield grab. Not sure though.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm not saying that it can be shieldgrabbed, because it can't if you space it well, but I'm saying that somebody can shield drop after you do a nair and have 3 frames advantage over you (aka 3 frames in which they CAN act and you can't, thus making jabbing to punish... impossible, except if you predict their 'punish'), but 3 frames aren't a lot ^_^

 

[noradseven]

Its character dependent whether its safe or not. It also will probably beat anyone stupidly trying to attack it due to its nice hitbox and crazy active frames.

ALSO STOP POSTING **** I MENTIONED IN CHAT LIKE 8 MONTHS AGO LIKE ITS GOING TO BREAK THE GAME!!!!!

 

[BioDG]

Sounds legit to me. I occasionally SHFF Nair as a more aggressive spacing tool in the past and it proves effective. I've tried it retreating in the past but for some reason I didn't find it as viable as other retreating strategies.

If it has advantages against powershielding, though, looks like I should exploit it more.

I don't know what you guys are getting at with powershielding, though, since I thought it eliminated any shield stun. Are you guys saying the retreating SHFF Nair ends its frame recovery fast enough for ZSS to react against a powershield (in addition to being well-spaced from the opponent)?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

BDG: you are actually right. Snakeee told me it had a "lot of shieldstun" so I just parroted that in the OP.