Is Lucina really that bad?

[Project_B]

@ LucinaNab1
I have to agree that PvP can cause a game to be overly complicated and serious. My younger brother and I have played 1 on 1 Smash against each other for many years, starting with playing Brawl casually, and the game, despite many flaws (tripping!!!), is important to me (if you know Project M or Project Melee, a mod to make Brawl be more like Melee, you will understand my username). Back then, winning or losing didn't matter to me, and I wouldn't be disappointed to end a series of fights on a loss. Now, I tend to be perhaps too serious, needing to play against him again and again while he stays the same character until I can find a way to win via a certain play style or matchup, and when I win, I stay the same character until he finds something that works. At first I didn't like playing so strictly and with such a serious attitude, but then I realized that the reason I had started playing like this was because of how much I care about the game, and whenever we had to turn off the Wii U, if I lost the last round, I would feel pretty bad. I honestly don't like any other fighting games than the Smash Bros. Series, and so being good at the game is meaningful to me. You, from what you said, seem to love RPGs, and that's great! (And a great genre too!) I am currently traveling around Europe, and I spend some of my free time on my iPad playing Chrono Trigger again, and I can't wait to see my friend in New Hampshire and start new files on "Fire Emblem: Awakening" to challenge Lunatic mode together.

For me, once I started playing Smash Bros. competitively (to an extent), I had trouble playing games so casually again. When I started a new game in Chrono Trigger, I focused a lot more on attributes of the game like having the optimal party with very specific equipment, and the best strategies for different battles, rather then just throwing out whatever moves I wanted, then reacting (like I did in my early Brawl days) and maybe healing or throwing out more random moves. That being said, I still play the game as "a casual", and that is really nice. Aside from doing speed runs or user-created challenges, most people play these games casually. And casual play is DEFINITELY a good thing if you have another game in which you care about being better than others.

Everyone needs casual play, even if you constantly win competitively. I often watch Nairo's streams, and he is currently the second best Smash 4 player in the world. Out of EVERYONE that you might see on For Glory, out of all of the professional players that train for countless hours each week and compete in international tournaments, there is only one in the WORLD who is considered better at this game. Now, shouldn't this make the game incredibly fun for him, knowing that he can go online and win every match if he wants to? Well, it would be less stressful at times, but Nairo has come back to his house some days and been too tired to even play Smash, so he has done several "Chill Streams" playing Paper Mario (another good RPG) casually and just having fun with the stream.

I certainly respect that you want to stick to the games that make you have fun, while not having the same chances at infuriating you. If you want to drop Smash 4 entirely, or have it only as a casual occasional match against a friend, certainly do that.

Your action of stopping playing Smash 4 may prevent you from coming online and seeing any of this post. But if it doesn't, try to remember: when the day ends and you find yourself reminiscing, aside from tripping into an fSmash in Grand Finals at a Brawl tournament, or SDing online and getting trash-talked in Smash 4, the games you play are played only for your enjoyment, and while I think that everyone should try out new types of games, but be able to fall back on the ones that you love, and above all else, the ones that make it seem like you're not only comfortable with them, but they are comfortable with you.

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

She isn't really that different from Marth. She's more agressive, while Marth is more spacing. However the difference isn't as huge as Roy and Marth.

In personality, Lucina is awesome, but I just play Marth. Dunno why.

 

[Project_B]

She isn't really that different from Marth. She's more agressive, while Marth is more spacing. However the difference isn't as huge as Roy and Marth.

In personality, Lucina is awesome, but I just play Marth. Dunno why.

Well, if you're looking for competitive viability, Marth is the better character, no questions. All the reasons as to why are in this thread, and If you still have doubts, there are other threads and resources with the reasons and data to back them up.

You said that "the difference isn't as huge as Roy and Marth," but the difference may actually be smaller than you think. In theory, Lucina is more aggressive, but in practice she is still just as unsafe due to having the same (relatively subpar) frame data as Marth.

If you can play Marth effectively, and you are fighting an opponent that you know you can outplay, you can basically just switch from Marth to Lucina (but not vice-versa) and use the character that you prefer just for their character (no pun intended). Some true combos and/or tricks may not work, but then again, Lucina is very easy to learn if you are playing Marth due to their similarities.

In short, my recommendation (feel free to ignore it) is that you should play Marth when you need to win, but if you want to use Lucina because it's more meaningful, it would be easy enough to do so.

 

[LucinaNab1]

What I want to do is keep playing Fire Emblem Awakening and finish getting my Emmeryn S support (She's such a lovely lady!).

Somehow, gaming became all about winning to me. Life is already hard enough, why would I want my gaming to be challenging as well? As far as any gaming goes for me, I'm always looking for ways to mitigate challenge. When I start playing a new game, I always start with the easiest mode and sometimes I care enough to work my way up. But I find myself overall quitting any game that is overall a grindfest against human players. I always end up going back to an RPG like I've said.

I'm a social gamer, gaming with others appeals to me most. Therefore, MMO RPGs suit my tastes the best. Cause once I get into any other genre, like fighting or shooting, then somehow winning becomes the only thing that matters.

Maybe if Marin or Emmeryn make it into Smash, I might give it another try. I have the feeling that I'm going to dislike whoever they end up adding to the roster...

 

[Project_B]

I understand what you're saying. After a while, even the best of games fail to keep our attention unless something changes about it to encourage us. I was literally too excited to sleep for the night before I got Smash 4 after hearing that Shulk (from one of my, if not my favorite game) was playable. When I first got the game, I planned to main him along with having four secondaries (Robin, Dark Pit, Lucina, and Zelda). Shulk is probably one of my favorite characters in the game (disregarding how people who haven't even played Xenoblade seem to constantly spam the "I'm really feelin' it!" taunt online). However, for my characters that I use now, I had to give up Shulk, Lucina, and Zelda, and I now use Robin only for specific matchups; she is actually more of a pocket character than a secondary. Out of the characters that I really wanted to use, few of them worked out. Sure Dark Pit (and Pit interchangeably) is my main now, but many of my favorite characters were just ones that I couldn't win with, or ones that were simply uncomfortable to play. My first main ended up as Robin, which made me very happy, but there were just some matchups that Robin felt kind of slow, clunky, and unable to do anything, whereas my Dark Pit felt much smoother and more easily able to win--and it wasn't even the winning--it was just that Dark Pit was more fun! I guess that this inspired me to play Kid Icarus: Uprising so that I got to "know" the character. I eventually ended up playing more characters based upon how they move and feel rather than the characters themselves (too a degree - I still believe in what I told you about playing characters you like), moving on to ZSS for a while, Fox, Peach after I played Melee for a while, Rosalina and Luma, and some others.

Don't worry about winning taking precedence over everything else. That doesn't make you someone who can't enjoy games, it just makes you competitive by nature. If that is too much for a game like Smash, don't be too hard on yourself. It can be annoying, especially if you don't have a "good" character that you really like. I wanted to pick up Palutena after beating KI: U, but I just couldn't pull it off for whatever reason due to my lack of skill and knowledge of the character, as well as Palutena not being particularly good.

To address the final part of your post, I would also really like for another FE character, both because I like many of them and because I have enjoyed playing as them. I would also really like a Xenoblade character because that is my favorite game... The characters would be very unique... And really for any reason that anyone else has for their own favorites.

I also don't have particularly great expectations for the new characters to be added as DLC, but I am still excited, because if a "meh" character that I don't like is added, it will be just like the previous game but with one more matchup, but there will always be the chance of something great happening. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I hope that something will encourage me to play even more, or just make the experience better for me.

 

[Tino]

Is Lucina really that bad? It depends on how you play as her. I actually prefer playing as her than with Marth but I don't know what's so different between them besides the tipper.

 

[ShadowKing]

In 4 Marth might have the tipper but can rack up more damage at a shorter time then lucina.Here's a video
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aAd0HDinHzc

 

[Furret24]

Lucina is factually a worse Marth. Sure her hitbox is consistent, but that doesn't matter as much in competitive play. Marth's sweet and sourspots are better for comboing and killing than Lucina's consistent hitbox.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Is Lucina bad? That depends on who you're asking. I personally don't believe so, I mean, I'm maining her still aren't I? If I felt I wasn't getting any results with her, I'd potentially drop her, like Mewtwo, but I haven't. I mean, I mained Marth in Melee, and had him as a secondary in PM, so I know how tippers work, but I just prefer Lucina for her consistency and balance. It's up to the eye of the beholder I suppose.

 

[Flowen231]

I'm honestly surprised this thread is still going on lol. But yeah, Lucina isn't that bad, she just doesn't perform as optimally as Marth. In order to play her optimally, you need to keep opponents at the tip of your blade to be as safe as possible since her frame data is the same exact thing as marth (minus her slightly slower jab anyway) which is poor at best. And if you're keeping people away, Marth is just going to be better, plus he has better hitlag modifiers on his non tippers so ironically he has a few more frames of safety when he mis-spaces.

Despite marth being overall better though, lucina has... 2.5 things going for her that most marth players overlook:

1, her up smash kills considerably earlier, and up smash is one of the fastest and easiest punishes the falchions have.

2, her dancing arial conversion kills much, much earlier than marth's (it can usually kill people near the edge if your first hit gets them at around 60%ish close to the edge of the stage).

.5, If you mis-space an attack and don't hit with the tip, lucina deals more damage, however not keeping people at the tip of your blade is a mistake if we are talking about optimal play, so it's really more of a buffer than a boon.

 

[EarthBoundAddict]

I've been diagnosed with dyspraxia which makes this game and video games as a whole significantly harder for me. Whenever I play as marth I find it really hard to get the tipper mechanic to function properly. But with Lucina I'm able to do much more damage and kill much easier. I think it's all up to skill and preference.

 

[gByron]

I feel jab->forward smash to kill is more consistent with lucina. Thats something

 

[L9999]

She is fun for disrespecting bad players, but she sucks. Mediocre frame data, no throw follow-ups, no reliable combos, gimpable recovery, never has the advantage in any situation because her moves are all unsafe and non-threatening, she can't land, and her range is garbage for someone so slow. Nah, it would still be garbage if she was fast.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, she is that bad. Even if he has consistent damage through her sword, her pivotal lack of spacing whatsoever that defines most of Marth's play pretty much make her collapse as a character. Combined with her already piss-poor neutral and having trouble approaching, I don't see why there's any reason to play her over Marth or Roy instead. They both have better combos, kill options, pretty much everything.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Lucina's decent in my honest opinion but in the end she's inferior to Marth at higher levels of play.

That being said she's still capable of holding her own and making plays like Marth.

As for Roy, his approach options aren't really any better than Lucina's really. Roy's also heavier and falls faster so his edge guarding options are a bit more limited compared to Lucina.

In the end though, I just think people can't look past the fact she's an inferior clone and won't give her any credit for what she's capable of.

 

[L9999]

Lucina's decent in my honest opinion but in the end she's inferior to Marth at higher levels of play.

That being said she's still capable of holding her own and making plays like Marth.

As for Roy, his approach options aren't really any better than Lucina's really. Roy's also heavier and falls faster so his edge guarding options are a bit more limited compared to Lucina.

In the end though, I just think people can't look past the fact she's an inferior clone and won't give her any credit for what she's capable of.

The only things on top of my head I know Lucina can do is break shields and kill at the edge at 80%. Not only is she inferior to Marth, she has nothing special about her, she is just another plain old swordsman (where have I heard this before?). She is Marth with no tipper and that's it. Not a single move different, no better frame data, no better kill power, or speed, or anything. Pichu is more unique than Lucina.

 

[Zethoro]

She's not nearly as bad as she was at launch (she's gotten some buffs seperate of marth that makes her damage better, not to mention the buffs they both got), but keep in mind Marth's advantage is not just his tipper. He quite enjoys the positioning non-tippered strikes can offer too.
In addition, Lucina lacks what I call the "fear factor".
Look at Lucina's kill moves. She's no slouch when it comes to killing, but you'll notice her eariest viable kill move is her uncharged FSmash which kills decently early (around 90-100).
Not bad...but does it really make you afraid?
Look at Marth's FSmash. It can kill uncharged as early as 50%. a fast move that punishes poor spacing of aerials and careless mistakes with a huge hitbox...that kills at 50. The worst part is, even if your opponent sucks at landing tippers, it's actually incredibly common for the opponent to get lucky FSmashes and kill you at 50 anyway.
Lucina is easy. The only thing to fear from her is a sudden shield break.
But Marth...Marth terrifies me.
You can be doing amazingly, with the Marth at 150 and you at 30, get read or make a mistake and the opponent gets an FSMash and kills you at the edge of smashville at 30 and lose the game.
Not to mention, if marth gets a shield break you're dead unless you're a heavy below, say 30, or a lightweight below 10%.
I had an interesting exchange with a friend where I broke his shield and he was Mario at around 20 percent. He laughed and said "not dead". I slowly pushed him to the edge, got a fully charged FSmash and killed him.
That's the thing with Marth. No matter ow good your matchup is aginst him you can't sleep on Marth because he can just flat out kill you.
Lucina lacks this danger, and because of it she loses the one thing Marth gained from the transition to Smash 4; terrifying kill power.
And all of that just on FSmash. Lucina does get a much more reliable USmash for killing but FSmash is their best kill move regardless.
I'm not hating on Lucina; I really like Lucina. She's just...bad. She's an inferior clone in (ALMOST) every way. Probably bottom 15 in the game, but not bottom 5.
Pre- 1.0.4 though I'm gonna say she was bottom 5.

NOTE: If you're just asking for friendlies and small tournaments Lucina is fine, but Marth is still cooler because your friends will salt everywhere when you get those tipper FSmashes.

 

[SukiDa]

I mean Lucina is bae sooooooo