Is Kirby going to be good?

[Morbi]

I honestly don't know; I believe that Kirby is going to be much more fun. Especially with move-set customization; I have always hated Kirby's special attacks, but Ice Kirby has gotten me really excited (as I don't like to absorb powers). Kirby does feel really slow/laggy in Smash; once I tried him in Project M, I wanted to actually main the little guy. So with mechanic changes, he might be slightly better, but as you stated, he had these problems in Melee too. We can only wait and see.

 

[Empyrean]

Indeed, landing a decently charged Hammer will be crowned the best of reads, of the same level of connecting a Falcon/Warlock Punch.

Failing one will be crowned the hardest of reads.

 

[Morbi]

Indeed, landing a decently charged Hammer will be crowned the best of reads, of the same level of connecting a Falcon/Warlock Punch.

Failing one will be crowned the hardest of reads.

I honestly feel as though landing a decently charged Hammer will be on the same level as connecting a decently charged Hammer . Is Hammer a proper noun on Smashboards or something? Haha.

 

[Empyrean]

I honestly feel as though landing a decently charged Hammer will be on the same level as connecting a decently charged Hammer . Is Hammer a proper noun on Smashboards or something? Haha.

Well, I forgot what the name of the move was, I just remember it had Hammer in it, that's why I used a capital. Maybe it was Hammer Flip?

 

[Sonicguy726]

Knowing sakurai. yes

 

[Hitzel]

It would be nice if you could cancel the Hammer change;

Charge up Hammer > they shield or dodge> cancel > dash up grab.

I love setups like that in fighting games.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Indeed, landing a decently charged Hammer will be crowned the best of reads, of the same level of connecting a Falcon/Warlock Punch.

Failing one will be crowned the hardest of reads.

I don't quite think that's the same. Holding the charge and releasing whenever you want makes it seem like the timing is far more lenient than a Falcon Punch. You can also move while charging Hammer Flip. I feel these moves are very different.

 

[Empyrean]

I don't quite think that's the same. Holding the charge and releasing whenever you want makes it seem like the timing is far more lenient than a Falcon Punch. You can also move while charging Hammer Flip. I feel these moves are very different.

I didn't say that they were similar. I was instead comparing the likelihood of connecting a charged hammer to the likelihood connecting a Falcon Punch. Both moves will require the opponent to be incredibly slow/predictable for them to hit. Even if you can move, you'll most probably never land a fully-charged blow, the same way DDD can't. The Brawl hammer was already extremely situational, I don't expect it to change much here. In fact, if aerial side-B is not the same as Brawl, I'd say that this move will probably be act as a nerf.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I didn't say that they were similar. I was instead comparing the likelihood of connecting a charged hammer to the likelihood connecting a Falcon Punch. Both moves will require the opponent to be incredibly slow/predictable for them to hit. Even if you can move, you'll most probably never land a fully-charged blow, the same way DDD can't. The Brawl hammer was already extremely situational, I don't expect it to change much here. In fact, if aerial side-B is not the same as Brawl, I'd say that this move will probably be act as a nerf.

I meant it will likely be easier to land a hit with the Hammer Flip than Falcon Punch.

 

[Empyrean]

I meant it will likely be easier to land a hit with the Hammer Flip than Falcon Punch.

Let's hope so.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I'm just hoping his updates in this game are a little more interesting than "we gave him Dedede's Jet Hammer." I mean, Hammer Flip is pretty iconic, but I think I'd have preferred the spinning hammer dash.

 

[extremechiton]

I'm just hoping his updates in this game are a little more interesting than "we gave him Dedede's Jet Hammer." I mean, Hammer Flip is pretty iconic, but I think I'd have preferred the spinning hammer dash.

it would be interesting if the hammer was implemented a bit more, like a running hammer makes you throw it, pressing down during the hammer swing makes it hit the ground DK style, holding up does the hammer flip, kinda like how lil mac has different f smashes.

 

[Phan7om]

I could make Kirby much more fun to play if I were designing him. Heres a few things I'd do

• Make all of his copy abilities useful.
• Make it so that whatever direction you were holding when you inhale them, thats the special you would copy. (this would never actually happen lol)
• Make his attack properties different depending on who he inhales (Electric properties with pikachu, Darkness with Ganon, etc.)(I dont want his moveset to change)
• Change some of Kirby's stats when he copys someone (faster run speed with sonic, more knockback with Little Mac, etc.)
• Give up-throw more knockback and make it a kill move
• Give d-throw less knockback
• Keep gonzo combo
• Give bthrow more horizontal trajectory
• More air speed
• Faster nair (both startup and end lag)
• Better fair/more knockback on last hit
• Keep hammer cancel
• Keep quick rock

I doubt any of this will make it into the game (mainly the new stuff). Ill just have to hope for the best.

 

[Ultinarok]

64: Demigod tier.
Melee: Seaweed tier.
Brawl: Average tier.
Prediction for Smash 4: Omega Oblivion Overlord Christ tier.

 

[Takehiko]

Do you guys think that the combo finisher for his continous attack will hurt him or help him being good? "All continous attacks will have a finisher after 3hits(right?)."

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I know I'll prefer it. Rapid jabs always bugged me. Don't know what the more competitive-savvy consider better between rapids and enders.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Considering the Ice Climber-esque blizzard, the new Hammer Flip, and that Final Smash that's 10x as better as his old one, I think he's going up on the tier list significantly.

 

[Phan7om]

Considering the Ice Climber-esque blizzard, the new Hammer Flip, and that Final Smash that's 10x as better as his old one, I think he's going up on the tier list significantly.

Well, the "blizzard" will be a custom move, so we dont exactly know if that will even be tourney legal, maybe a side event. And Final Smashes are definitely not gonna be in there, and hammer flip is sooo slow and telegraphed... hitting with that will be even more difficult than before. So, Kirby might be better, but not because of those reasons. His specials were always pretty situational.

-----
To the OP, Kirby will be much better if there is hitstun. A person who studied Kirby's combo potential in Brawl, if there was just a little more hitstun he could 0-70 almost everyone... so assuming everything has the same combo potential and there is hitstun, hed probably fall high-mid because of that alone.

If they made inhale safer that would also help him. Everyone hoping for the Cutter Dash, keep hoping, it wont happen. I still hope Kirby can hammer cancel, and quick rock tho. I also wonder if Kirby's dash attack will be different (one weve never seen before, not PM or Melee's dash attack). It would also be nice if they made all the copy abilities all viable. From what Ive seen so far.

I kinda know which ones will be the best... Little Mac's will be one of the best if somehow Kirby could get the OHKO from it. Villagers will be better in doubles, but still good if the opponent insists on spamming Side-B projectiles or something. Megaman's will be one of the best. WFT's is also pretty good. Same with Greninja's. Pit's still good, but not as good as it was. All projectile ones will be above average. Ike's still looks bad, same with Bowser... but we'll have to wait and see.

So for Kirby to be good, some things would have to happen. Increased hitstun, safer inhale, similar combo ability from Brawl. And to make him top tier, he would need better aerials, more air speed, u-throw kill move, and d-throw combo move. Thats basically it.

 

[chronomantic]

I don't know if it's me or the guys who have played Kirby so far suck but he seems kinda slow? what do you guys think?

 

[Kewkky]

He looks good, but his moves seem to have lost some disjointed range... I'll find out how he feels tomorrow during the demos.

 

[FlynnCL]

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

This. Very much this. Assuming they don't nerf it, the current state of this throw makes his matchups on platformed stages MUCH better.

 

[Wumbo105]

64 Kirby: Broken.
Melee Kirby: Garbage.
Brawl Kirby: Balanced.

Kirby needs IMO:
-Bigger hitbox for his Up B.
-More knockback for his Up Throw and Forward Throw.
-More damage for his Back throw (like 12%) and less damage for his Down throw (like 9%)
-More range and speed for his Neutral B.
-More knockback for his Up and Down Smash.
-Slide attack as his new Down Tilt.

Why on Earth would you ever change anything about his throws? That was like, the one godlike thing he had in brawl. More knockback on the f-throw? K I guess you didn't enjoy all that free % from the follow-up combo. Same with d-throw, it being the most damaging throw made his strings more punishing. Yes, I know combos don't exist in Brawl, blah blah. Kirby mains will get what I'm saying.
Only thing I agree with here is more damage on the b-throw. (as far as throws go. The stuff about actual moves I'm not gonna comment on.)

 

[Kewkky]

He needs less knockback on his fthrow, bthrow and dthrow IMO. His usmash is indeed disappointing, what with not killing characters even at 130% (as seen in the invitational by Hungrybox). I didn't really see him use dsmash though, or fsmash to kill so I can't say how strong or weak it got yet...

EDIT: Also, impressions by the 16 invitational guests regarding the new Smash, and stuff they collectively tested.

 

[Chandeelure]

Why on Earth would you ever change anything about his throws? That was like, the one godlike thing he had in brawl. More knockback on the f-throw? K I guess you didn't enjoy all that free % from the follow-up combo. Same with d-throw, it being the most damaging throw made his strings more punishing. Yes, I know combos don't exist in Brawl, blah blah. Kirby mains will get what I'm saying.
Only thing I agree with here is more damage on the b-throw. (as far as throws go. The stuff about actual moves I'm not gonna comment on.)

I totally forgot about the Forward Throw combo in Brawl, sorry :B
But well, at least Kirby looks better in Smash 4 than in Brawl, well...in my opinion XD

 

[Ultinarok]

He looks good. Fair looks faster, nair looks useable, and uair looks like a spammable damage builder. And Up throw is just insane.

 

[JetX818]

Kirby all the way yayyyyy

 

[Jinjo64]

well, Kirby was B tier in brawl, so I don't see him in needing that much of a buff (I feel that A tier is a good balancing point)

with that in mind

1) Kirby's Dair was already a meteor smash which is all he needs due to his floaty nature.
2) Lag is not an issue really with Kirby
3) his dask was pretty decent, However daskes were generally crappy in Brawl due to the defensive nature of the game. That's an issue with the core mechanics, not the move.
4) why? for a lightweight he already has decent killing power and reflex
5) I could see them making his up better in maneuverability but it doesn't need a bigger hotbox.

If anything I'd say Kirby could use slight tweaks to his tilts and maybe his nair. That's about it really.

Kirby was actually D and E tier in the last two tier lists....so pretty bad.

 

[KRBAY]

Yes. YES.

 

[Jinjo64]

Yes. YES.

Upthrow was said to be nerfed. Kills jigglypuff at 130% on FD now.

 

[extremechiton]

Upthrow was said to be nerfed. Kills jigglypuff at 130% on FD now.

how much more nerfed could it get?

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

I could make Kirby much more fun to play if I were designing him. Heres a few things I'd do

• Make all of his copy abilities useful.
• Make it so that whatever direction you were holding when you inhale them, thats the special you would copy. (this would never actually happen lol)
• Make his attack properties different depending on who he inhales (Electric properties with pikachu, Darkness with Ganon, etc.)(I dont want his moveset to change)
• Change some of Kirby's stats when he copys someone (faster run speed with sonic, more knockback with Little Mac, etc.)
• Give up-throw more knockback and make it a kill move
• Give d-throw less knockback
• Keep gonzo combo
• Give bthrow more horizontal trajectory
• More air speed
• Faster nair (both startup and end lag)
• Better fair/more knockback on last hit
• Keep hammer cancel
• Keep quick rock

I doubt any of this will make it into the game (mainly the new stuff). Ill just have to hope for the best.

I can agree with some of it but yeh for the majority, never gonna happen. The different special would be kinda neat though.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Can we move discussion about Kirby to "Kirby's Toy Box"?

This thread has a lot of pre-release information, and may be confusing to those who just come in.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Kirby was actually D and E tier in the last two tier lists....so pretty bad.

Hmm you're right. I must've been using an outdated tier list when I wrote that response. I have been out of the competitive brawl scene for a few years now which would explain my ignorance. I am slightly curious now as to what made him drop, but it really matters little now that smash 4 is out.

 

[Jinjo64]

Hmm you're right. I must've been using an outdated tier list when I wrote that response. I have been out of the competitive brawl scene for a few years now which would explain my ignorance. I am slightly curious now as to what made him drop, but it really matters little now that smash 4 is out.

Its fine man, and Smash 4 Kirby will be beast! We need to make a friend code forum on this, so we can all Kirby ditto or Kirby team!