Is Jigglypuff a tournament viable character?

[Seagull Joe]

You search your own name every day? Not exactly helping your image here. But don't you know? Manners fly out the window when you're on the Internet. As does common sense, intelligence, you know, things of that nature.

When you're a top/high level player, your name comes up a lot. My image is fine within the community. Only randoms and baddies make excuses for other's playing good (Dabuz, me, Nakat, etc...). People should play to win, not appease a crowd.

 

[MarioMeteor]

When you're a top/high level player, your name comes up a lot. My image is fine within the community. Only randoms and baddies make excuses for other's playing good (Dabuz, me, Nakat, etc...). People should play to win, not appease a crowd.

I don't know why Dabuz gets all the hate he does, but when did Nakat catch any ****? I didn't say you shouldn't play to win, but that's going into something completely off-track. Still though, anybody who plays Sonic is "ew" enough for me.

 

[FooltheFlames]

She's ok, but she still has a lot of flaws that overtime IMO, will have be severe.
Because of her playstyle she can eventually get predictable and as time progresses, easier to fight, I will admit she's fantastic in doubles.
But her many flaws are significant
Lightest character
Short ranged attacks
Poor ground game
Laggy ground attacks
Worser recovery because of pound losing momentum
Sometimes having trouble landing KOs
Has no projectile
Slowest(just above Robin) Walking and Dashing speed.

These flaws all together are so huge.......
I still think she is somewhat viable, but I wouldn't really count on her for winning tourneys, but that's just my opinion.

Good points, but Puff had most of these flaws back in Melee and yet that didnt stop her from eventually rising into the Top tier-
for many years, Puff was only considered Upper Mid/High tier untill Mango & Hbox gained popularity.
In time fantastic players like them will overcome Puff's weaknesses in Smash 4 as well~

 

[NAKAT]

I don't know why Dabuz gets all the hate he does, but when did Nakat catch any ****? I didn't say you shouldn't play to win, but that's going into something completely off-track. Still though, anybody who plays Sonic is "ew" enough for me.

Brawl back in the day since I mained Ice Climbers.

 

[Phampy]

I think Jiggs is pretty viable in tournament but I'm not sure about your ability to use her the whole way through. There are some matchups that are pretty difficult where I would rather use someone else. I personally (plan) to use her as a character to exploit matchups that my main can't handle as effectively.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Brawl back in the day since I mained Ice Climbers.

Well, would you look at this. I'm getting all the attention this week, aren't I?

 

[Trieste SP]

She's definitely viable but her weaknesses hold her back. Definitely more viable than she was in Brawl.

 

[MarioMeteor]

So, Serynder played at S@X this week, and aside from getting 2-0ed, he did pretty well.http://youtu.be/IuIYuuJn-Zg
This definitely shows that Puff is as viable as the person who plays her is.

 

[CHOVI]

So, Serynder played at S@X this week, and aside from getting 2-0ed, he did pretty well.http://youtu.be/IuIYuuJn-Zg
This definitely shows that Puff is as viable as the person who plays her is.

Those rests were sick, but otherwise not so great IMO :/

 

[MarioMeteor]

Those rests were sick, but otherwise not so great IMO :/

He played far better than any other Jigglypuff we've seen thus far. Plus, Serynder is new to the scene. Everybody he's played he's only played once. I'm pretty sure once he gets to know how everyone plays he'll be a monster.

 

[CHOVI]

He played far better than any other Jigglypuff we've seen thus far. Plus, Serynder is new to the scene. Everybody he's played he's only played once. I'm pretty sure once he gets to know how everyone plays he'll be a monster.

I think TheReflexWonder plays better but I guess that's just me :v

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think TheReflexWonder plays better but I guess that's just me :v

Who?

 

[Jiggly]

Who?

One of the best puffs. He used to be here a lot, but dropped puff recently because he thinks she's trash now.

 

[MarioMeteor]

One of the best puffs. He used to be here a lot, but dropped puff recently because he thinks she's trash now.

Huh, doesn't that sound familiar?

 

[Zorai]

I don't think she's worth the trouble; optimal play likely revolves around camping the ledge, but she struggles to get the percent lead to begin with. Her neutral game just isn't dangerous enough.

Her ground game is complete garbage if that's what you mean. So her entire neutral game consists of her being in the air somehow. But I'll have to disagree with 'it isn't dangerous enough'. It's evident to me that the playstyle Jigglypuff employs in Smash 4 is 100% bait and punish. For some odd reason this has worked time and time again for me, and I don't claim to have any special Jiggs expertise, I'm just acknowledging the fact that Jiggs brings some new kind of playstyle to Smash 4 that can definitely do well and even shutdown other playstyles/characters. See: Jiggs vs. Megaman.

Overall Jiggs has a certain level of aerial mobility and control over the pace of the match that can't be ignored in my opinion.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Pretty sure Jigglypuff loses to Mega Man fairly soundly.

If Jigglypuff has potential, it likely revolves around the frame of ledge snap vulnerability. F-Air and N-Air seem like they would be really good at covering that space; Forward-B, as well. Useful lingering aerials like that are hard to come by. Getting that stage spike or a late hit that combos into something else would likely be pretty powerful if it's reliable.

 

[IrkenPPG]

Jigglypuff is a bit underrated in Smash 4. While she isn't top 5 or anything amazing she still is just as good as the rest of the cast. I'd put her about number 20. Also not many people use Jigglypuff to make things worse.

 

[CHOVI]

Pretty sure Jigglypuff loses to Mega Man fairly soundly.

If Jigglypuff has potential, it likely revolves around the frame of ledge snap vulnerability. F-Air and N-Air seem like they would be really good at covering that space; Forward-B, as well. Useful lingering aerials like that are hard to come by. Getting that stage spike or a late hit that combos into something else would likely be pretty powerful if it's reliable.

Why does Jiggs lose to Megaman? Neutral B can be grabbed quite easily in the air, it's hard for uptilt and dsmash to hit us, side b can be jumped over, fsmash can be punished with rest and so can dash attack, and upair and dair are easy to avoid.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

U-Air is not easy to avoid if you want to maintain any kind of offensive pressure. The combination of pellets and B-Air wall you very well. His enormous grab and U-Smash both hurt your general gameplan.

 

[Zorai]

From my exp Jiggs is hell for MM. In addition to what Chovi said, you can fair bair and nair through pellets with ease. They do not wall out Jiggs whatsoever. MM should not be trying to pellet against Jiggs.

MM's bair is like the only thing he has against Jiggs and even that can be beaten with proper spacing. Grab too, but he's not getting any followups off them due to her weight, and you shouldn't be getting grabbed if you're playing it properly.

But back to the topic of viability, Jiggs is that oddball pick who only struggles against disjoints. You don't pick Jiggs into disjoints unless you're a far better player. That's how I feel atm. I'll have more thoughts after playing her more in locals in like friendlies or $1 MMs. You can't solo-main Jiggs, just like you can't solo main 80% of the roster. Especially when this is a very matchup based game where you need 3-4 characters under your belt.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

He moves almost as quickly as you in the air; your aerials will not last long enough to stop multiple pellets in most cases, and doing an aerial so close is asking to get B-Air'd or U-Air'd.

You have no reliable way to get in on most characters, let alone one of the best wallers in the game. He just has to abuse that fact; it's not about how hard it is for him to deal damage to you, it's about how hard it is for you to hit him, because neutral means he's able to hit you and not the other way around.

 

[Jiggly]

Is a megaman uair really a good way to counter a puff approach? Puff normally approaches at head level, so it would seem up air would be a bad option.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Is a megaman uair really a good way to counter a puff approach? Puff normally approaches at head level, so it would seem up air would be a bad option.

The projectile comes out at head level, and it's quite safe to use right before landing against Jigglypuff. Even if you hit him, Mega Man will gladly take that trade and put you up high with an extra ~19% on you.

It's obviously supposed to be mixed up with pellets, B-Air, and general grab stuff to throw off your spacing, but Mega Man U-Air is very good to use within those tools against air-centric characters like Jigglypuff and Wario.

 

[Jiggly]

The projectile comes out at head level, and it's quite safe to use right before landing against Jigglypuff. Even if you hit him, Mega Man will gladly take that trade and put you up high with an extra ~19% on you.

It's obviously supposed to be mixed up with pellets, B-Air, and general grab stuff to throw off your spacing, but Mega Man U-Air is very good to use within those tools against air-centric characters like Jigglypuff and Wario.

Interesting, never seen that happen, and does Uair have a vacuum box at all? I would think with a well spaced fair or bair, it wouldn't be much of an issue, but I've never had a megaman use Uair in such a situation.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

He can lean back with about the same speed as you and shoot it while you move forward. It's a pretty precarious poke position for Jigglypuff when you have to respect so many tools.

If you stick a limb out and it touches U-Air, you'll get caught in it.

 

[Jiggly]

He can lean back with about the same speed as you and shoot it while you move forward. It's a pretty precarious poke position for Jigglypuff when you have to respect so many tools.

If you stick a limb out and it touches U-Air, you'll get caught in it.

Alright, but what I'm getting from this is megaman has to play a lot differently from normal, relying more on aerial spacing than projectiles and zoning. Do you really believe that megaman can utilize this enough when puff still has all her tools?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's the same thing, just applied in a different position. It works very well against Jigglypuff's limited tools.

I don't know what to tell you. If you don't agree with me, it'd probably require you to play against a good Mega Man who's well-versed in the matchup to see the case made. It's not an outright horrible matchup (as far as I can tell), but it is certainly in Mega Man's favor.

I'm not an incredible Mega Man, but I play with both Mega Man and Jigglypuff, and we have two very good Mega Man players in GA, so I play the matchup a lot.

 

[Jiggly]

It's the same thing, just applied in a different position. It works very well against Jigglypuff's limited tools.

I don't know what to tell you. If you don't agree with me, it'd probably require you to play against a good Mega Man who's well-versed in the matchup to see the case made. It's not an outright horrible matchup (as far as I can tell), but it is certainly in Mega Man's favor.

Alright, interesting. I've just never seen a megaman play like that before, so that's why I asked. I'd love to play a MM who actually knows the megaman jiggs MU

 

[Hylian42]

Jiggz can have issues in competitive matches since few of her aerials are safe against blocks and she is a very aerial combatant. She gets shield grabbed a lot.

 

[CHOVI]

Jiggz can have issues in competitive matches since few of her aerials are safe against blocks and she is a very aerial combatant. She gets shield grabbed a lot.

Yeah, that IS a problem, but can be solved with good spacing

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Mostly yea she is tournament viable(pretty much like every other character) but it would be best to have a back up main that can cover all of her significant flaws.

IMO as time progresses and the meta improves, i feel like jiggly MIGHT slowly fall because shes not really all that dangerous even with her air game(similar to kirby) and as time goes on im sure it will be even easier to fight jigglys, but who knows, only time will tell......or technically players who will still dedicate time into characters and reach their full potental

 

[MisterDom]

Of course she's a tournament viable character! I used her in tiurnenta and did pretty well! I'm sure whoever says that Jiggs shouldn't be with full certainty doesn't have a good look at the low tier. Any character is tournament viable.

 

[PowerPuffPlayer]

Actually, I won a Tournament as Jigglypuff at the Sacramento Comic Con. They didn't stand a chance. It was for SSB4.

 

[drakeirving]

if they didn't stand a chance they were probably just bad tbh

also the rules are incredibly silly if it's anything like what's on their website now (4-player 10-stock single-elim, forced pro controller and control setup)

 

[Wintermelon43]

IMO everyone's tournament viable. Jigglypuff's probably upper mid for customs off (I have her at #31), customs on she's.......... 28. But I havn't added Lucas, Roy, or Ryu, in yet, and i don't know much about customs (But I assume she slightly lower)

 

[Dapplegonger]

I feel like this is probably relevant to the discussion.

 

[Infinite901]

Imo... no. You need a good secondary to place well with puff.

 

[RIKATERB]

I agree with you. The learning curve is real. The first two weeks I used her I barely won any matches and felt extremely weak, dying really early and such (and I'd already been playing the game for a while, so I wasn't THAT terrible).
Now though, she feels really good

Word, i agree. I honestly never used Jiggs until Smash4. I spent most of my time in Melee/Brawl using Luigi, Zelda. But something in this game caught my eye, and one day i just said ... Hey, ima main Jigglypuff. Her learning curve is hard true, ive been using her for a few months now, im "Decent", but its still hard for me to land many hits, and i sometimes find myself inputing random commands lol

 

[Desu~]

The reason Puff is gradually placing lower on the tier list each time is simply because Puff is lacking something incredibly important, especially in the way Sm4sh has been made.

Jiggs can't deal with turtling, simply because it's actually easy to be really defensive in this game. And because of Puff's limitations gameplay-wise, it's too much to handle.

Like most of the users said in this board, Jigglypuff is 100% about bait and punishing the opponent, but has in return no way of approaching someone who does not want to approach you at all. So it's basically an incomplete form of bait & punish.

To me, the purest form of bait & punish would be Sonic, as Sonic is not only able to do what Puff is supposed to be about, but he does it even better with the fact that his speed makes him able to catch up to turtling characters, ridiculous spacing and attacking options, as well as easy follow-ups.

Jigglypuff has nothing of these. You either try your best to approach your opponent and risk to get blown off or basically wish that your opponent gets to you.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The reason Puff is gradually placing lower on the tier list each time is simply because Puff is lacking something incredibly important, especially in the way Sm4sh has been made.

Jiggs can't deal with turtling, simply because it's actually easy to be really defensive in this game. And because of Puff's limitations gameplay-wise, it's too much to handle.

Like most of the users said in this board, Jigglypuff is 100% about bait and punishing the opponent, but has in return no way of approaching someone who does not want to approach you at all. So it's basically an incomplete form of bait & punish.

To me, the purest form of bait & punish would be Sonic, as Sonic is not only able to do what Puff is supposed to be about, but he does it even better with the fact that his speed makes him able to catch up to turtling characters, ridiculous spacing and attacking options, as well as easy follow-ups.

Jigglypuff has nothing of these. You either try your best to approach your opponent and risk to get blown off or basically wish that your opponent gets to you.

I wondered why Jiggs was so low despite her buffs. This is pretty much is a good explanation.