Is DeDeDe the worst character in game?

[DewDaDash]

No trolling, is this character the worst in the game? I have not seen one DeDeDe on the scene even place top 8 the last couple of months and every brawl professional d3 player including me has dropped the character long time ago or has been placing like ass with him. Every once in awhile I try the character for lolz but the character pisses me off to no end to how terrible the design is that I stop as quickly as I try it out.

This character needs some major buffs. I cannot understand how a character can be so abysmal, maybe because Sakurai felt bad for all the scrubs that got chain grabbed in brawl? I don't know.

I'm not too sure what the purpose of this thread is, I guess just to vent my frustration with this character. I'd love to main him again, he was so much fun in brawl and its disappointing that game is dead and his design in this one is terrible.

 

[cwjakesteel]

No trolling

Only two options in the poll are "yes"

And Nah, Zelda's pretty bad.

 

[DewDaDash]

Although I agree zelda is pretty bad, Nairo has shown that char is somewhat playable, maybe low mid tier, or high bottom tier? The poll is slightly a joke but at the same time I find it hard to even consider a no option.

 

[cwjakesteel]

Well there are a few dozen people on this forum who with experience definitely think that Dedede is more than playable.

It is unfortunate, however, that Dedede has escaped Sakurai's buff radar.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Lol

I'm sorry, that just came out. What I really meant to say was

Lol

 

[CO18]

Defintley not, hes as good as he is in brawl dewdadash. I think you guys just aren't accustomed to how you have to play with him.
I just started playing this game last week, only on 3ds. And just got back from my first tourney in this game about 20 minutes ago lol and got 3rd, I lost to FreshDieNasty or w/e his name is now lol (former redhalberd) who got 13th/512 at evo 2-1, barely lost sheik vs ddd. Other loss was to KDB who may be the best yoshi in the states,not sure who has comparable results but he got 25th at ceo and just took a set off nickriddle last week. yoshi MU seems hard but then again just started playing this game so im sure I'll adapt. Still alot of gimmicks/little things I dont know about smash 4 yet. Freshdienasty recorded our set so whenever he uploads it ill post it. But from the little time i played with him i feel strongly hes as good as he is in brawl and think I could get back to where I was in brawl with him once I start labbing in this game and get top 16 at nationals.
I just think he doesn't completely **** certain characters like he did in brawl. But thus far I dont think he has nearly as bad top/high tier matchups as he did in brawl.

 

[FrankTheStud]

Dedede has great power, great spacing, great survivability, a decent projectile, decent movement speed, and relatively low lag time for being as heavy as he is. One good read with Dedede can change the tide of battle, especially the more that rage meter builds up--He, without a doubt, has the best recovery of all the heavy characters along with mininal lag time. (Compare him to DK and you'll really see what I mean!) He also has a spike and a very good nair-into fastfall technique, which is straight up better than all the other heavy's, as it pretty much autocancels. (Which Bowser's, Gdorf, DK's all don't--in comparison).

Chain grabbing is gone in this game for every character, so you may have to explore Dedede's other options instead lf putting all your eggs into one basket. As a Mario main, I cringe whenever I see a Dedede because I know that if I'm not at least one stock ahead, then I'm behind. Perhaps take advantage of Dedede's ultra-safe spacing against combo/rushdown characters and play more patiently before dropping the hammer.

Edit: Grammar mistakes and additional suggestions!

 

[DewDaDash]

Defintley not, hes as good as he is in brawl dewdadash. I think you guys just aren't accustomed to how you have to play with him.
I just started playing this game last week, only on 3ds. And just got back from my first tourney in this game about 20 minutes ago lol and got 3rd, I lost to FreshDieNasty or w/e his name is now lol (former redhalberd) who got 13th/512 at evo 2-1, barely lost sheik vs ddd. Other loss was to KDB who may be the best yoshi in the states,not sure who has comparable results but he got 25th at ceo and just took a set off nickriddle last week. yoshi MU seems hard but then again just started playing this game so im sure I'll adapt. Still alot of gimmicks/little things I dont know about smash 4 yet. Freshdienasty recorded our set so whenever he uploads it ill post it. But from the little time i played with him i feel strongly hes as good as he is in brawl and think I could get back to where I was in brawl with him once I start labbing in this game and get top 16 at nationals.
I just think he doesn't completely **** certain characters like he did in brawl. But thus far I dont think he has nearly as bad top/high tier matchups as he did in brawl.

Yea KDB is a decent player, played him a few weeks ago. Heard you lost to phuzix as well? If you can beat phuzix I'd consider trying dedede again. Beat him in 2 tourney sets w/ pre-patch diddy and recall he was solid, halzy was too scared to enter that tourney so I'm not really sure if hes good or not. Since the 1st patch and even 2nd patch moreso haven't cared to play this game much, its been frustrating losing to people I shouldn't be losing to when I was near undefeated for like 3-4 months, just trying to force myself to dual main sheik/rosa now but it doesn't feel as natural as Diddy or even brawl dedede to me but with time I guess I can pull it off same way I forced myself to do MK towards end of brawl for ics/mk.

If you can pull it off then go for it man. Dedede's design just annoys the **** out of me. Every move of his is just a nerfed version of his brawl form. I'd be fine if he was just a direct port from brawl with just the chaingrab obviously taken out. Not being able to d-air for instance high as a recovery option is huge setback, as well as other small things such as his ****ty b-air. And yeah from what I recall from playing the 3ds version, yoshi was a tough mu, and sonic mu felt impossible.

Edit: You took a set off NickRiddle in bracket?

 

[CO18]

Didnt play phuzix,i mean halberd is def good lmao, always has been since brawl. 13th at ceo, dont really remember phuzix from brawl but i see he got 17th at ceo though. Florida for smash 4 seems pretty stacked. Master raven got 9th at ceo, kamicario 13th etc. Just watched 8-bitman 3-0 mvd a few days ago in grand finals, kdb taking set off nick riddle, seems like we've got alot of top players, even more so than brawl. But I dont think d3 sheik mu is that bad, and his recovery to stage is fine, i miss dair , his smash 4 dair is ass but just pop a gordo angled up as you fall to stage to shield you and it keeps them at bay/mix up fast fall nairs and inhales/b reverse inhales and just resetting at ledge is pretty safe with ddd since his up air/fair/bair plus 4 jumps at ledge with up air poking from way understage.

Also beat prince ramen who won the 2nd to last tourney, was worried about that mu since I had no experience in it.
But smash 4 ddd is def as good as brawl ddd imo, dedede is basically impossible to gimp now too which is a huge plus compared to brawl. Gordo use is fundamental, I feel like from what i've seen its been used very poorly. DDD's neutral game has been played pretty poorly too imo. And then just learning how to kill with him in this game takes some getting used to.

edit: No I haven't played nickriddle lol. Just started playing this game and I've been in orlando last few weeks. When I get back to miami, I'll hit up a SFL tourney. KDB took a set off nickriddle last week was what I was saying. Feel like zss may potentially be ddd's worst mu in this game but we'll see eventually when I start labbing/play nick riddle

 

[Jdawg26]

Glad to have you on the boards @ CO18 . Your DDD taught me a lot back in the Brawl days, hopefully you can help us push this character forward a bit.

As for the question at hand... No. He's not the worst but his strengths as a character are inherently tied to his weaknesses unfortunately.

Large/heavy frame = combo food/low mobility
Massive hitboxes= slow frame data
Solid stage control tools= vulnerable to being camped outside of that zone.

He's a pretty okay character, but what separates him from the top tiers is the fact that a lot of his killing options require the opponent to make a critical error rather than applying relatively safe pressure. D3 is a reactive character in this game, which lessens his options in a lot of scenarios... but at least he can do SOMETHING sometimes. Poor Zelda/Swordsman are actually horrible in some matchups.

Then again, being the worst character in this game isn't as much of a curse as it was in previous games. Especially with the inclusion of the rage mechanic... It's possible that over time that he may become the worst character in the game. But he'll still be a decent niche pick in some scenarios.

 

[DewDaDash]

Oh, well phuzix lives in Tampa as well, newcomer, dont think he played brawl but basically just Manny's disciple I guess. He's traveled much more than Lade, he did beat Vinnie in sheik ditto at a tourney a month back or two, think it was some tourney in Canada, but loses to Lade in sheik dittos for whatever reason I think he's told me. Him and Static are usually considered the two best in Tampa. The only person that's good in orlando is KDB so I'd suggest playing him more and see where you stand before going back to Miami.

 

[Ghidorah14]

HERESY!

OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

 

[OverLade]

Lmaooo Dew you are too garbage to question my skill in this game.

Dedede is great but you were never an innovative enough player to use him well.

And please tell us how when diddy got nerfed you fell out of top 5 in an average region lool

 

[OverLade]

Also

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ZurQKfOBPAY

 

[Soul Train]

Everyone shh

YES DEDEDE IS THE WORST SO SO BAD Z TIER

Agree and we'll get a patch

 

[Ghidorah14]

Also

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ZurQKfOBPAY

Video is private...

 

[OverLade]

Video is private...

Or IS IT?

 

[CO18]

If you guys noticed in 3rd game, he was able to down tilt my up+b somehow before it snaps to ledge, apparently he has 1 frame to do it so it's tough to land but still annoying lol. Is that common knowledge in this game? Wondering if I go deeper if he's still able to do it. Also I haven't really practiced with a gc controller in like years lmao so my tech skill was quite a bit off sporadically, missed some stupid easy punishes you'll see in 3rd game.

edit: Also peep last kill of first game, its a solid mixup/ way to get some early kills sometimes. Stand shieldless at ledge to bait the get up attack, quick dash right --> then dash attack ending lag of the get up attack.

I was actually pretty deep on an up+b around 9:20 or so and he was still able to dtilt it, plus it just seems like that wouldn't make a difference since it autosnaps the ledge anyway. Luckily he only has 1 frame to pull it off but still rather annoying/makes the MU more difficult since he can get more chip damage/opportunities to gimp.

 

[DewDaDash]

Lmaooo Dew you are too garbage to question my skill in this game.

Dedede is great but you were never an innovative enough player to use him well.

And please tell us how when diddy got nerfed you fell out of top 5 in an average region lool

lmao your trash talk game is weak. Saying im garbage, pretty sure my d3 was the only person other than esam able to take out MVD towards the end of brawl, even with your top tier bs you couldn't do that. Also last tourney I did get 7th but I lost to static and kdb, not my region, 2nd best placing outside of ryo within gainesville so that would be top 5 within my region. But I mean I have already won like 10 tourneys so much better than you atleast, have you even won once? You use the best character AGAIN, but you ain't winning? Cmon now bruh. But you know once I start playing this game seriously again and settle some personal issues and start travelling like b4, next time I drive up to Tampa, don't be scared when you show up and not enter again only cuz I showed up

 

[OverLade]

LOOOOOL you must be under a rock somewhere. I beat MVD 3 times with Falco in Brawl. I didn't need a 6-4 matchup. And I EASILY have more tourney wins in Smash 4 than you do, plus top 3 placings in a way harder region. Tell me how I work 40 hours a week but am still better than you?

But all that talk is great, you can either nut up or shut up. $50 MM me or I don't wanna hear it. You couldn't beat good people even when diddy was broken so don't even mention me using sheik.

 

[CO18]

Though this def isn't the place for this, to be very objective. Although you are good, Unless there's something I've been missing. Lade has/always been significantly better than you. You have never gotten /had the potential to get Top 16 at a national as Halberd has done in both games. Arguing about winning tourneys considering staticmanny is in his region and you're in gainesville also isn't particularly fair as you would also never win a tourney in tampa that staticmanny showed up to. Isn't a knock on you, just feel like thats moot to bring up. Also beating snake with ddd in brawl does't mean much. I dont think I ever lost to MVD which includes a random tourney I showed up to after I completely stopped playing brawl and MVD was considered 2nd best snake. When played properly DDD should never lose that MU.
But considering I've been out of the scene awhile it is quite possible you've gotten much better and I'm just unaware. So I won't comment on the matter further. But regardless, lmao lets just keep the beef elsewhere. This isn't the place for it.

 

[DewDaDash]

I couldn't beat good people lmao your funny. True blue, xaltis, ryo, sol, phuzix, just to name a few gtfo lmao. And you can't really discredit our region like that. Ryo just beat static and took first that tourney, so being undefeated prepatch does mean something. I'd say our region is on par if not better. Matter of fact, I drove to that Tampa tourney, beat everyone there in Tampa, getting 2nd, only losing to myran from Ft.Myers. I drove just so I could beat static but for whatever dumb reason he didn't enter cuz to put it in his words, he wanted the ppl below him within his region to place or something along those lines, not like I can help that. Also man, I've placed 17th at paragon(sm4sh), placed top 10 at a national in brawl (WABA) and MLG was 17th back then, so I would place high just about all the nationals I did go to even with a bad character(d3).

But you are right, I agree he was better in brawl, not this game though.

 

[CO18]

Oh ok was unaware lol good for you. That MM on the table though lmao, wanna see the hype.

 

[Infinite901]

I've always thought all 3 Kirby characters were some of the most underrated characters in Smash 4, DDD included. I'd def say at least Zelda and Mii Swordfighter are worse. (and Default Palutena)

 

[OverLade]

Lmao is that a no on the MM or?

 

[DewDaDash]

Depends, it's not worth travelling to Tampa if everyone doesn't enter, I'd much rather beat you in tourney rather than MM, money doesn't mean anything to me. If so then sure why not.

edit: falco was a 6-4 mu btw lol, that was mvd's worst personal mu I recall losing to xaltis and bloodcross, I was referring to mk.

 

[OverLade]

When is next Gville tourney? I'll personally come and take your money

 

[CO18]

I mean If you're saying you're better than him then you gotta prove it by beating him. It has nothing to do with winning the money. He's so confident he'll beat you he's wagering 50 bucks. If you don't accept just means you don't actually think you'd beat him/you're the one who is scared lol. I dont respect the trash talk if you dont back it up lol. You both can come to the next gameknights which is every Tuesday, equal distance from you both. I wanna watch lol

 

[DewDaDash]

Haha, this week got cancelled, sometime during the fall, so considering the summer semester is ending, 3-4 weeks from now?

edit: co18, So your saying if I beat you in a $50 MM in brawl I would be better than you in brawl even though your tourney placings were much better than mine back then? Nah I dont think it works like that LOL. A mm doesn't prove anything in the long scheme of things, its just a quick profit that doesn't get accounted into PR thus bracket seeding when it matters.

 

[OverLade]

Cmon son none of that. I will literally drive up on a weekday to collect this quick $50 I really don't even need a tourney as an excuse. I will come serve you at your own smashfest. But nome of this talk if you aren't about it.

 

[cwjakesteel]

Also

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ZurQKfOBPAY

Wow, does that sheik just suck? Also where was this?

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, I do find him to be the first character in the game for one reason, his best zoning tool does not help him in the slightest, it is actually detrimental to his overall play-style. Maybe if he had some more mobility, you could take more advantage of it. But if your opponent is somewhat competent, they are going to use it against you. His recovery is pretty awful as well. That, to me, would have been his saving grace. I mean, there are a lot of bad characters in the game. None is objectively considered the worst.

 

[Cook]

I just gotta say, throwing out $50 money matches is pretty dumb, imo. Just sounds like you're making a bluff that you hope they won't call, lol.

 

[CO18]

Haha, this week got cancelled, sometime during the fall, so considering the summer semester is ending, 3-4 weeks from now?

edit: co18, So your saying if I beat you in a $50 MM in brawl I would be better than you in brawl even though your tourney placings were much better than mine back then? Nah I dont think it works like that LOL. A mm doesn't prove anything in the long scheme of things, its just a quick profit that doesn't get accounted into PR thus bracket seeding when it matters.

I agree but considering you guys haven't played/aren't in same region, a MM is still relevant. Who do you use in this game btw?

 

[CO18]

Wow, does that sheik just suck? Also where was this?

Lmao, no he got 13th at CEO. He's Been a top player since brawl, we played a bunch of friendlies before hand as well. There are alot of mindgames taking place that you wouldn't necessarily be able to see from watching vids. Although i just recently started playing smash 4 , smash is still smash and I was one of the best players in brawl so there's alot of things that won't work vs me that I will adapt to very quick. He also 3-0d kdb the same tourney, who got 25th at ceo/recently beat nickriddle. He did have some random grenade mess ups game 1 though.
If you were to watch like an old brawl match of me vs a top mk, you would prob think the mk was bad lmao. The way I had to play that MU/ the mk had to play vs me in that MU i feel is somewhat similar to DDD vs sheik in this game, at least on the stage.

 

[MasterCheeze]

All this talk of D3 being a bad character sure has gotten people riled up. You guys are s'posed to be takin' the hammer to other characters, not each other.

 

[Revolution6 aka alterego]

D3 has some unfortunate stuff like the 2% threshhold on reflecting gordos, the lack of kill throw and guarantied kill setups among other things, but he's not thee worst character, but i'd put him in solid mid tier for now(this is where japan put him on their last tier list) .

IF he stays the way he is I think he'll drop hella fast in the coming years tho

also props to sickdienasty for learning what D3 does mid set.

You could see game one that he didn't know how to deal with gordos at the start of the match. He also over respected you (probably because of your status as a player) because in game 2 he was more in your face and just spaced around you because D3's frame data is meh to bad.

In regards to you getting hit at the ledge there is that 1 frame vulnerability and when it so happens you get hit with that during up B your head is above the ledge.

 

[Cook]

Dedede is great, you guys are all scrubs! :-D

 

[ZeThundaRippa]

Dedede is great, you guys are all scrubs! :-D

Sshhhhhh... we don't want people learning our matchup

 

[cwjakesteel]

Sshhhhhh... we don't want people learning our matchup

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