Is Anyone Else Bothered by the Absence of Non-Japanese Composers?

[ryuu seika]

He has enough for an orchestra.

Woah woah woah, Orchestration? Don't do it Nintendo!
You've already ruined the entire Ocarina of Time soundtrack, why can't you keep your classic video game music sounding like classic video game music?

 

[Xermo]

Woah woah woah, Orchestration? Don't do it Nintendo!
You've already ruined the entire Ocarina of Time soundtrack, why can't you keep your classic video game music sounding like classic video game music?

Whoa, man. I'm not an orchestra guy myself, but 'ruined' certainly doesn't describe ZREO.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Smash 3ds is to have significantly less compositions than the wiiu version stated by sakurai in the april direct.

 

[ryuu seika]

Whoa, man. I'm not an orchestra guy myself, but 'ruined' certainly doesn't describe ZREO.

Sorry, I tend to over exaggerate my opinions a bit sometimes. I am not a fan of ZREO and never will be but it wasn't that bad, unlike those crappy orchestration CDs they seem to think fans want as preorder bonuses.
My main issue regarding Zelda is that, with so many orchestrations and the like, it's now almost impossible to find the one good version of Gerudo Valley anywhere but on youtube.

As for how this relates to the new Smash game, I just find it pretty awful that, in a series that sells itself on the celebration of video game history, they have no intention of preserving the sound thereof. Unless Wii Music made big bucks, I don't get why Nintendo are so big on orchestration.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Sorry, I tend to over exaggerate my opinions a bit sometimes. I am not a fan of ZREO and never will be but it wasn't that bad, unlike those crappy orchestration CDs they seem to think fans want as preorder bonuses.
My main issue regarding Zelda is that, with so many orchestrations and the like, it's now almost impossible to find the one good version of Gerudo Valley anywhere but on youtube.

As for how this relates to the new Smash game, I just find it pretty awful that, in a series that sells itself on the celebration of video game history, they have no intention of preserving the sound thereof. Unless Wii Music made big bucks, I don't get why Nintendo are so big on orchestration.

Well... considering the atmosphere of the game keeping the old classic tunes could be really jarring. I mean, it was nice in HGSS, but it didn't really feel right. I liked the new versions of Johto's music.

Also, they do it for the art. Because orchestration is beautiful.

 

[ryuu seika]

Can we atleast get some NES or Gameboy players in the orchestra? I really enjoy songs with a good blend of chiptune and electric guitar, chip-backed orchestra could be an interesting compromise.

 

[Knife Myths]

They brought Masafumi Takada back so I don't care about anything else.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Having THAT amount of artists just for the 3DS version is going the extra mile, TC. It is worrisome when someone acts as if they could have done more in the face of such an accomplishment.

Anyways, I'm sure that there are a lot of great musicians in the videogame industry but it seems kinda pointless to get upset over the fact that they didn't list every good composer on the face of the Earth for this game. Maybe the amount of people they have now was enough to make new arrangements and to remix old tracks. Heck, not even Uematsu or Kondo are on the list.

I'm sure that if they had an arrangement between them and Sakurai it could happen but I don't think that we should force national diversity into the list just for the sake of having "Non-japanese" composers.

 

[D-idara]

Sorry, I tend to over exaggerate my opinions a bit sometimes. I am not a fan of ZREO and never will be but it wasn't that bad, unlike those crappy orchestration CDs they seem to think fans want as preorder bonuses.
My main issue regarding Zelda is that, with so many orchestrations and the like, it's now almost impossible to find the one good version of Gerudo Valley anywhere but on youtube.

As for how this relates to the new Smash game, I just find it pretty awful that, in a series that sells itself on the celebration of video game history, they have no intention of preserving the sound thereof. Unless Wii Music made big bucks, I don't get why Nintendo are so big on orchestration.

Because Super Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword would be nothing without their fully orchestrated soundtrack? What's wrong with orchestra? It's amazing.

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that one of the American composers he listed composed the music for a Sonic fangame? (good music yes but a bit random to be asking to compose smash music)

 

[D-idara]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that one of the American composers he listed composed the music for a Sonic fangame? (good music yes but a bit random to be asking to compose smash music)

Composing music for a fangame doesn't make you any less of an amazing musician, you know...?

 

[ryuu seika]

Because Super Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword would be nothing without their fully orchestrated soundtrack? What's wrong with orchestra? It's amazing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the sound, especially that of whinier instruments like the stringed ones traditionally used. There were very few SMG tracks that stood out for me and most of them were either old classics (who doesn't sing along to Slider) or heavily vocal driven like the final boss theme.

 

[TheTuninator]

Who cares whether or not the composers are Japanese, so long as they're good? Being Japanese in no way means your composing style will be similar to other Japanese composers. The Japanese man who composes for Advance Wars switches styles drastically about twenty times just within that series alone.

I don't see non-Japanese composers as a necessity at all. As long as the people Sakurai has hired can make good music, everything is fine.

 

[D-idara]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the sound, especially that of whinier instruments like the stringed ones traditionally used. There were very few SMG tracks that stood out for me and most of them were either old classics (who doesn't sing along to Slider) or heavily vocal driven like the final boss theme.

Different strokes...I guess...

Who cares whether or not the composers are Japanese, so long as they're good? Being Japanese in no way means your composing style will be similar to other Japanese composers. The Japanese man who composes for Advance Wars switches styles drastically about twenty times just within that series alone.

I don't see non-Japanese composers as a necessity at all. As long as the people Sakurai has hired can make good music, everything is fine.

I'm just saying that there's a lot of non-Japanese iconic styles...

 

[SalsaSavant]

I want the soundtrack to be the best it can be.
By limiting it to only JP composers, they're settling with "very good, not "amazing."
It'll still be great, but there are internation composers within Nintendo's reach that can add something that no one else can. Even if they only use a few, they should be using some of the best of the best, not just "good and in my country."
Not saying that there aren't JP composers that aren't amazing. There are plenty of them. But each artist has a unique style, something different to contribute. By just sticking with a few greats and a few "goods", they aren't making it the best they can make it.

 

[8BitBlackMage]

From what I can tell there's two people from Katamari Damacy's music team, and that just makes me more excited for the game.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I want to say this thread is borderline racism...

Why does it matter what race the composers are? If the music is good, the music is good. Saying *insert any odd well-known American composer here* is good is no different than saying any other composer is good. The game is developed in Japan so they picked talent from Japan. Seems simple enough. Unless you're suggesting that American composers are better, I don't see why this should be any kind of issue.

 

[D-idara]

I want to say this thread is borderline racism...

Why does it matter what race the composers are? If the music is good, the music is good. Saying *insert any odd well-known American composer here* is good is no different than saying any other composer is good. The game is developed in Japan so they picked talent from Japan. Seems simple enough. Unless you're suggesting that American composers are better, I don't see why this should be any kind of issue.

Well, David Wise can be considered Koji Kondo-power levels, so yes, there's some American composers much better than the Japanese composers listed, and like I said, some much better Japanese composers like Jun Senoue are missing. Besides, most of the composers listed have either 'quirky' styles or grating, overused, godawful Japanese-RPG-ish styles (The kind of thing Nobuo Uematsu makes...). There's no variety.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Well, David Wise can be considered Koji Kondo-power levels, so yes, there's some American composers much better than the Japanese composers listed, and like I said, some much better Japanese composers like Jun Senoue are missing. Besides, most of the composers listed have either 'quirky' styles or grating, overused, godawful Japanese-RPG-ish styles (The kind of thing Nobuo Uematsu makes...). There's no variety.

Then the thread should be called "Is anyone else bothered by the lack of composers I feel are necessary (IMO)?".

It has absolutely nothing to do with race other than the fact the game is developed on an island where primarily that race lives, which could be deemed a rational excuse.

 

[D-idara]

From what I can tell there's two people from Katamari Damacy's music team, and that just makes me more excited for the game.

I would be more excited if we got more people that have actually worked with Nintendo and know how to make magic with music.

Then the thread should be called "Is anyone else bothered by the lack of composers I feel are necessary (IMO)?".

It has absolutely nothing to do with race other than the fact the game is developed on an island where primarily that race lives, which could be deemed a rational excuse.

Like I said earlier, it's more a matter of style, so far the only barely interesting thing I've heard style-wise are the Gerudo Valley remix and the Ska version of Kapp'n's song.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I would be more excited if we got more people that have actually worked with Nintendo and know how to make magic with music.

Like I said earlier, it's more a matter of style, so far the only barely interesting thing I've heard style-wise are the Gerudo Valley remix and the Ska version of Kapp'n's song.

I wouldn't be so quick to stereotype, there is a large diversity of composers anywhere you go.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Then the thread should be called "Is anyone else bothered by the lack of composers I feel are necessary (IMO)?".

^This, pretty much...and then there's the fact that we haven't even heard the whole soundtrack yet....

 

[Senario]

I too am upset Michael Jackson was not asked to compose music for this game.

David Weise especially sticks out because the soundtrack to the DKC series is godly, and should absolutely have a place here, especially since he returned to do Jungle Freeze.

I don't know what to tell ya....

I know right? We have to ask Michael Jackson to compose the music for the game! Where can we find him? I'm pretty sure he is hiding in a hole in the ground somewhere. Lol

 

[pizzapie7]

Didn't even notice this until you pointed it out.

Sure it's a bit petty if you're not really into the music but his criticism is definitely a valid one. There are definitely some iconic non-Japanese composers that could be included to improve the soundtrack of the game. However, there's nothing to say that this soundtrack isn't going to be amazing without them. No idea why the reasoning is, and I'm sure it wasn't as blanket as "we aren't going to get any composers from outside Japan", but it doesn't exactly improve the game boxing yourself in like that.

 

[NintendoPSX]

I don't see the issue here at all. Just seems like baseless complaints to me. It's a huge list of very respectable names and companies. I'll take what I got for my good music tastes.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Didn't even notice this until you pointed it out.

Sure it's a bit petty if you're not really into the music but his criticism is definitely a valid one. There are definitely some iconic non-Japanese composers that could be included to improve the soundtrack of the game. However, there's nothing to say that this soundtrack isn't going to be amazing without them. No idea why the reasoning is, and I'm sure it wasn't as blanket as "we aren't going to get any composers from outside Japan", but it doesn't exactly improve the game boxing yourself in like that.

I mean, you just can't know any of this for a fact at all until you've even heard all of the music, and even then, music is utterly subjective anyway.

Whether it's made worse by the lack of any one or few composers would completely be an opinion.

This is honestly like saying "Why isn't X developer on the dev team?". The answer is...because they aren't. Not every team has the same people. It's just a pointless complaint.

Also don't you even dare fire back with "Well you must not care about the music much", we'd be getting in to a subject that I actually possess a professional opinion on.

 

[GmanSir]

Just because they are big names, doesn't mean they'll do it. In other cases, some could have been busy with other stuff (David Wise composing TF in America). Plus, as others have said, almost all of Nintendo's IPs and games are created in Japan, with Japanese staff.

 

[pizzapie7]

I mean, you just can't know any of this for a fact at all until you've even heard all of the music, and even then, music is utterly subjective anyway.

Whether it's made worse by the lack of any one or few composers would completely be an opinion.

This is honestly like saying "Why isn't X developer on the dev team?". The answer is...because they aren't. Not every team has the same people. It's just a pointless complaint.

Also don't you even dare fire back with "Well you must not care about the music much", we'd be getting in to a subject that I actually possess a professional opinion on.

Why must you try and make this a fight? Just because you think it's a pointless complaint doesn't mean that others think it's pointless. If someone doesn't like an omission and thinks other people could do it better, be that on the developer side or the composition side or anything else, why not talk about it?

And nice job trying to pre-emptively respond to my would be response. That thought didn't even cross my mind. Picking fights like this is really silly though.

 

[D-idara]

I mean, you just can't know any of this for a fact at all until you've even heard all of the music, and even then, music is utterly subjective anyway.

Whether it's made worse by the lack of any one or few composers would completely be an opinion.

This is honestly like saying "Why isn't X developer on the dev team?". The answer is...because they aren't. Not every team has the same people. It's just a pointless complaint.

Also don't you even dare fire back with "Well you must not care about the music much", we'd be getting in to a subject that I actually possess a professional opinion on.

If you're a music professional you should accept that there are certain musical styles from non-Japanese composers that would contribute a lot of variety to the game, a lot of the composers have a same-y style, like it or not...like I said, very few of these chosen composers have a style that you can pinpoint the second you hear some music from them.

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

Composing music for a fangame doesn't make you any less of an amazing musician, you know...?

I wasn't discrediting his compositions I was just pointing it out as funny to me.

 

[SoaringDive]

I don't know if it's been discussed, but I think a big factor are western unions. Especially with there being two different versions of the game.

 

[hichez50]

I know there's some logistics reasons for this, but come on! I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that people like David Wise (Donkey Kong Country Series), Grant Kirkhope (Banjo-Kazooie, DK64), Jake Kaufman (Ducktales Remastered, Shovel Knight), Falk (Sonic Before the Sequel/After The Sequel), Josh Mancell (Crash Bandicoot), Eveline Fischer (DKC Series), Richard Jacques (Sonic R), Christophe Heral (Rayman Origins/Legends)...hell, even Michael Jackson! (Sonic 3)...god, they made many people become gamers and love videogame music, and all of those musicians I listed have such distinct, defined, rich styles that it doesn't feel fair when the game only has Japanese styles (Hell, even some amazing Japanese composers like Jun Senoue and Tomohito Nishiura are missing).

I know it would've been hard for the logistics, but this is SMASH BROS.! They should've gone the extra mile and hired more non-Japanese composers...

Nope. When western devlopers get on board with Nintendo they will represent them more naturally. Until then they can be left in the dust. Don't get me wrong I love the sounds of western composers. Jeremy soule and Eveline Fischer are among my favorites, but western devs. just don't hire top tier talent for big nintendo games.

 

[Arti]

When's Tim Follin?

Also even though this is about non-Japanese composers I kinda wish we had Daisuke Ishiwatari

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

With the list of composers right now, the music style is already diverse. You don't need a group from multiple countries to have diversity in music.

However, I will say the composer list Sakurai posted have some of my all time favorites from video games from them. DK country has classics, but, I other than that...I'm not too impressed by the OPs list of examples. Little confused when you say...

Falk (Sonic Before the Sequel/After The Sequel)

Do you mean Falk made the sound track to Sonic 2, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Heroes, Colors, Generations? Because then, yeah. He's another I would love to be added to the list along with David. But again, ethnicity and country of orign doesn't make diverse music so much as different taste and musical styles is what will make any OST diverse when you get a bunch of composers together.

Plus I'm sure most everything will be re arrangements of classic Nintendo tunes.

*EDIT* Wow, I didn't know there was such as thing as Sonic the Hedgehog: Before the Sequel... didn't know such a fan game existed.

*learned something new*

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm pretty sure the reason is entirely logistical. Sakurai seems to prefer working very closely with the members of his development team and it is simply much cheaper to seek people who live in the region then it would be to bring composers from other countries to do the same thing. It may not be a great thing but it does seem to be a decent reality.

 

[Jaedrik]

I am not bothered by the absence of non-Japanese composers.
I am bothered by the absence of many good composers who happen to not be Japanese.
Nationality is irrelevant. We ought to be so blind to such meaningless distinctions that we consider them as insignificant as the sellion height in the nose.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Not sure if 4-5 songs are worth the money for transportation, stay, wages, translators, a whole English orchestra, etc. in the grand scheme of things.

 

[SpectreJordan]

The vast majority of Nintendo games are Japanese. All the Smash games are also developed in Japan.

Donkey Kong & arguably Metroid have become Western franchises over time. Hell, Little Mac was only included in the game because he's popular in America.

 

[Noctes]

Nintendo in general doesn't really like to play nice (or at all) with non-Japanese developers, composers, artists, etc. Rare and Retro are rare exceptions, and they took them on long ago.

The lack of non-Japanese characters and composers and overall representation is a bit disappointing, but nothing outside of what should be expected of Nintendo.