Is a Melee like game the way to go?

[nessokman]

So, Everyone seems to want the next Smash to be a copy of Melee. They want the Melee mechanics and such back.

First, why? I don't remember people ranting all about how Melee wasn't a 64 clone. Why does everyone want the next game to be a Melee copy. I am fine with the fact that people like Melee. I personally don't care for it. Alot of people hate brawl because it isn't like Melee.

While Melee was cool and all, I love that it is so different from 64 and brawl. That's what makes smash so unique! New game mechanics every time make it a different experience.

I'm not ranting on how melee extreme fans want it all like melee, i just want to know do you really think that making it like melee would be good for the series? After all i doubt a game with the same gameplay as a previous installment would exactly progress the series.

I like the idea of new gameplay mechanics and such. (EXCLUDING TRIPPING)

 

[Hokori]

If the game were to be made like Melee, the only difference would be the title of the game, the characters, and the stages (and some other minor things), so it shouldn't be an update of Melee. Sakurai mentioned that he wants to introduce a "slightly different, fun experience", so we'll see. Personally, I just want a nice, polished game. If it's a game that hardcore Melee fans can appreciate while appealing to those that enjoyed Brawl, then it's a winner. There's always going to be complaints, but people are either going to suck it up and adapt, or go crawling back to Melee or Brawl (or play 64 for nostalgia). There will be no Melee 2.0 though.

 

[TewnLeenk]

I hope they can find a way to combine all 3 games so far somehow and create something truly awesome. It shouldn't be "more like one game", it should be a combination of them all or its own thing.

 

[Hokori]

I hope they can find a way to combine all 3 games so far somehow and create something truly awesome. It shouldn't be "more like one game", it should be a combination of them all or its own thing.

What game specific elements from the 3 games would you consider acceptable for a true combination?

 

[TewnLeenk]

What game specific elements from the 3 games would you consider acceptable for a true combination?

Huh, good question. I was thinking Melee's speed, Brawls visuals and soundtrack, and the announcer from 64 (he had an awesome yelling voice). Those are very vague answers but that's what I'm thinking.

 

[BTmoney]

I'm pretty sure no one wants Melee 2.0. I'm pretty sure people just want the deep level of complexity, testing of knowledge, pushing of physical limits, intricate flashiness, fast paced gameplay and the extreme intimacy that Melee offered.

It doesn't have to be Melee. It just has to be more than what is apparent. Brawl lacked the sex appeal and lurning curve that Melee had. People obviously miss it, obviously.

If you want to say oh Sakurai does not want to make a game so hard again then there can easily be a casual and competition setting. In the casual setting you can grab ledges backwards, sweet spot easier, less gravity, easier/more recovery etc. what ever will make non technical and casual players happy. While the competitive setting will contain various cancels and techs that are only found on the competitive side Melee-esque. This pleases both crowds.

 

[Hokori]

Indeed vague, but an answer nonetheless. As far as the speed, I do agree with you there, or at least have it a bit faster than Brawl. I think they're going to end up keeping it Brawl tempo though. Each game featured a different art style, so I predict they may head another direction with that (who knows, it could end up looking like anime haha). And there most definitely will be a new announcer. From Melee I know most people would want to see L-Cancelling and Wave-Dashing. Not too sure about any Smash Bros. 64 specifics though.

 

[lordvaati]

^the "Board the Platforms" mode is the most wanted thing from 64, as well as taunt cancelling and Hyrule Castle.

 

[Hokori]

^the "Board the Platforms" mode is the most wanted thing from 64, as well as taunt cancelling and Hyrule Castle.

Ah, all that is good. I do miss "Board the Platforms" and its music..and I'd love to see Hyrule Castle again. Maybe have stages from each of the previous games alongside the new ones?

 

[TewnLeenk]

Good God I loved Board the Platforms. That needs a return.

 

[Hokori]

I had more fun with Board the Platforms than all of the Break the Targets from every game personally.

 

[Landry]

I'm pretty sure no one wants Melee 2.0.

I do....

 

[Hokori]

I do....

*Cries*

 

[BTmoney]

I do....

Your definition of melee 2.0 is probably different from mine. What do you want per say?

 

[El Duderino]

Why does everyone want the next game to be a Melee copy

1. No sane person is asking for an exact replica, just a game that manages to keep its spirit rather than suppress it.
2. Melee is all about flexibility. Flexibility is a large part of what makes Smash fantastic.
3. Return of the ledge game, a staple of the series that has lost its prevalence.
4. Tighter, more responsive, controls. No 0-2 frame random controller input delay. Turning on a dime. Better starting point for buffering that could use a more tempered reapplication.
5. Total embrace of freedom of movement on the ground and in the air. Melee is the pinnacle of this series cornerstone.
6. Knockback reduction that still comes at a cost and relies more on planning than reacting. Crouch canceling > perfect shielding.
7. Larger contrasting possible playstyles, including some characters and match-ups that share similarities with high-level Brawl.
8. Fluid pacing, pressure, setup, and spacing game with more move utilities.
9. SSB4 might be the first Smash to have decent online play. Better to have a game that encourages a players to develop a level of mastery than setting up roadblocks that discourage continued play.
10. Like Tactician said, Melee has sex appeal.

 

[Hokori]

1. No sane person is asking for an exact replica, just a game that manages to keep its spirit rather than suppress it.
2. Melee is all about flexibility. Flexibility is a large part of what makes Smash fantastic.
3. Return of the ledge game, a staple of the series that has lost its prevalence.
4. Tighter, more responsive, controls. No 0-2 frame controller input delay. Turning on a dime. Better starting point for buffering that could use a more tempered reapplication.
5. Total embrace of freedom of movement on the ground and in the air. Melee is the pinnacle of this series cornerstone.
6. Knockback reduction that still comes at a cost and relies more on planning than reacting. Crouch canceling > perfect shielding.
7. Larger contrasting possible playstyles, including some characters and match-ups that share similarities with high-level Brawl.
8. Fluid pacing, pressure, setup, and spacing game with more move utilities.
9. SSB4 might be the first Smash to have decent online play. Better to have a game that encourages a players to develop a level mastery than setting up roadblocks that discourage continued play.
10. Like Tactician said, Melee has sex appeal.

Perfect answer. Good note in #7 (didn't denounce Brawl and showed how certain features of the game could be tied in with Melee style game play). Could be a checklist for the next game. If SSB4 contains these elements, it's a winner.

Kudos El Duderino.

 

[El Duderino]

It's not really even a hypothetical, watch the Melee Apex 2012 GF. The game can be played in a style similar to what people often assume is exclusive to Brawl. It's simply a matter of extending it to more of the roster.

 

[Hokori]

It's not really even a hypothetical, watch the Melee Apex 2012 GF. The game can be played in a style similar to what people often assume is exclusive to Brawl. It's simply a matter of extending it to more of the roster.

I've seen that set. Understood. What exactly would be extended to more of the roster though? I'm assuming you mean various playstyles for each character depending on match-up rather than a somewhat universal method (one playstyle).

 

[Curmudgeon]

No, SSB4 needs to be unique not a Melee copy. If you want Melee, play Melee.

 

[Isprayaxe]

Huh, good question. I was thinking Melee's speed, Brawls visuals and soundtrack, and the announcer from 64 (he had an awesome yelling voice). Those are very vague answers but that's what I'm thinking.

Lol the announcer was a badass and does need to come back.

 

[Vkrm]

The point of making a sequel should never be just making the game different for no real reason. I think a sequel should be better than the previous version, not different. Obviously they should do away with features that don't work and experiment with new ones. I just don't understand why sakurai got rid of stuff the community likes.

No, SSB4 needs to be unique not a Melee copy. If you want Melee, play Melee.

Don't want another melee. Want a sequel that's as baller as melee was. That's even what melee purists want.

 

[El Duderino]

I'm assuming you mean various playstyles for each character depending on match-up rather than a somewhat universal method (one playstyle).

Or just more characters that play in different styles like jiggs and young link, while being viable.

No, SSB4 needs to be unique not a Melee copy. If you want Melee, play Melee.

Comments like these always make me wonder if these special individuals don't know how to listen, or just don't care to.

 

[Strong Badam]

basically, yeah. it's certainly not the only way, but it's a very easy and simple way to make the game great both competitively and casually.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

My only problem with Melee is that its game speed is abnormally fast at normal speed. Brawl's game speed is more manageable for my tastes.

 

[Gust14]

So, Everyone seems to want the next Smash to be a copy of Melee. They want the Melee mechanics and such back.

First, why? I don't remember people ranting all about how Melee wasn't a 64 clone. Why does everyone want the next game to be a Melee copy. I am fine with the fact that people like Melee. I personally don't care for it. Alot of people hate brawl because it isn't like Melee.

While Melee was cool and all, I love that it is so different from 64 and brawl. That's what makes smash so unique! New game mechanics every time make it a different experience.

I'm not ranting on how melee extreme fans want it all like melee, i just want to know do you really think that making it like melee would be good for the series? After all i doubt a game with the same gameplay as a previous installment would exactly progress the series.

I like the idea of new gameplay mechanics and such. (EXCLUDING TRIPPING)

What (IMO) people really mean is that they want it to be like melee as in the good aspects of melee, that is a fast, deep and tournament-worthy game, in wich brawl disapointed much of the comunity.

Melee is not without fails, to name a few it is quite unbalanced (but not as bad as in brawl), is hard to get into competitive level, 1-player modes suck, etc... On the other side Brawl has some good features too like a lot of extra content and it is super hackeable , though these aren't really important for competitive play.

Also brawl didnt fix the balance problems from melee, made everything slower, added tripping and its online mode is a joke... So even when you look the worst possible scenario if ssb4 has to suck then I rather have a game more similar to melee than brawl, and I think thats much the popular opinion.

 

[SmashChu]

First, this

I hope they can find a way to combine all 3 games so far somehow and create something truly awesome. It shouldn't be "more like one game", it should be a combination of them all or its own thing.

Second. No. Besides the fact that it would be boring, it's not the direction the game should take. Competitive gaming doesn't work and it's been proven time and time again. Making it like Melee would mean trying to make it more competitive and would only appeal to the small group of competitive players (because those are the players who keep asking for it). It would not be an open game which is what Sakurai tried to do with Brawl. Competitive games tend to drive everyone else away where open games tend to be inviting and have bigger competitive scenes as a result (the size of the competitive scene is a function of the number of people playing). Starcraft 2 is a good example as the series has sold less and is played less. South Korea has moved away from it to League of Legends, a game that is more open.

Competitive players want more Melee, but it's not in the best interest of the series.

 

[Gust14]

If thats directed to me, I just stated my opinion on why would the people want ssb4 to be more like melee, wich is what the op implied, if thats true or not that I dont know for sure. Also the reason behind the popularity of Lol and competitive games (shooters are popular) can be argued, but thats for another thread. Thats why I dont like to make absolute statements.

Tbh I think the best solution would be something like this http://smashboards.com/threads/334141/

 

[Tweezer Salad]

I know this is picky but I'd like the menues to be darker like they were in melee. Melee had nice looking purples, blacks ,and silver. Brawl's was just plain white and fugly.

I'm pretty sure they were going with the look of the consoles as the inspiration for the menu designs.
Not familiar enough with the Wii U to guess how smash 4 would look if they still are going to go by this.

 

[El Duderino]

Competitive players want more Melee, but it's not in the best interest of the series.

The best interest of the series is a game that everyone can appreciate at whatever level the game is played at.

 

[oksas]

i wholeheartedly agree with SmashChu, we should all just play mario party

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

I would like Sakurai and Project Sora to move forward with the series instead of looking back, Melee was a great game, Brawl was a great game, 64 was a great game, and the only way to top those is to be innovative and move forward, so I don't want Smash 4 to be 64, I don't want it to be Melee, I don't want it be Brawl, I own and have played all of those games, I want something new, I'm not stuck into the nostalgia and competitiveness of the past games community...

 

[Vkrm]

"Don't care if its good or bad so long as its new."

I'm all for innovation but why screw with mechanics that are tried and true? The only valid reason to do that would be if they had new mechanics in mind that better the gameplay in certain aspects. That is not what brawl did. It has all the same problems that melee on top of a myarid of its own bad design choices. So much was lost in transition to brawl from melee that I definitely support looking back to the earlier games.

 

[PikaJew]

64 was different
melee was different
brawl was different
4 will be different

i've enjoyed all 3 of the series, and play each game differently because you can't play them the same way.

they are definitely going to change the gameplay.
remember the primary controller is either the gamepad or a 3ds

 

[Vkrm]

"Melee was different"

If by different you mean better, I'm inclined to agree.

 

[El Duderino]

Moving forward with a new entry without first 'looking back' to hit past high points is a great way to fall backwards:

The first step to any successful next step in a series is analyzing what elements are compelling and work well in the first place. If Sakuari and his new team at Namco actually are refusing to look back (which I highly doubt), the game would not be in good hands.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Melee analogous game? No.

Melee-like game? To the extent of the number of options and the diversity of the movement game, certainly.

 

[TewnLeenk]

They should just make it more similar to Smash Bros 4.

...hehe

 

[---]

I'm not a competitive player (if that wasn't already obvious), but I would like to see some of the depth of Melee return, at the same time, however, I do also want to see Smash 4 continue with Brawl's ease of usability (Melee's too fast for me). I guess if anything, I'd like to see the game become a mixture of both games, and let's just say 64's charm for the heck of it.

 

[nessokman]

yep.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

From a pacing/speed sense being most similar to Melee is definately the best way to go. Melee isn't really the "fastest" game in the series, it's just the game with the most speed flexability. There are a lot of playstyles that go at the pace of your average Brawl match and work in top level Melee, but vice-versa can't be said for Brawl. Smash 4 needs to lift that speed cap and let players play however they want to play, whether it's like a bomb-happy Young Link running circles around his opponent or a flying Captain Falcon smacking his victim across the stage.