International Condemnation of Israeli attack on aid ship

[~N9NE~]

At least 10 passengers were killed, and dozens of others were injured, when Israeli commandos stormed ships bringing aid to the Gaza Strip early Monday. The flotilla, led by a Turkish ship, was in international waters (about 60 kilometers) off the coast of Israel when it was intercepted.

Israel says that seven soldiers were also wounded in the violence.

Israeli Government Spokesman Mark Regev says the activists had weapons and were prepared to attack the commandos when they came aboard the ship. But representatives of the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, described the raid as an attack on civilians, saying the activists did not have violent intentions.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/new...-PM-Cancels-White-House-Meeting-95257909.html

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Monday accused Israel of state terrorism following the attack in neutral waters on the international aid convoy.

"No matter what Israel says its motives were, what they did was [an act of] state terrorism," he said in a national address on Turkish television adding that Turkey demands immediate release of its vessel which was taken hostage.

http://en.beta.rian.ru/world/20100531/159237307.html

The White House said the US "deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained" in the storming of the aid ship.

A spokesman said US officials were "currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy".

The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid, left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and had been due to arrive in Gaza on Monday. Israel had repeatedly said the boats would not be allowed to reach Gaza.

Israel says its soldiers boarded the lead ship in the early hours but were attacked with axes, knives, bars and at least two guns.

"Unfortunately this group were dead-set on confrontation," Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev told the BBC.

"Live fire was used against our forces. They initiated the violence, that's 100% clear," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

There's a UN meeting about it, but as usual Israel probably going to get away with murder.

 

[Pikaville]

This is completely unacceptable.This is blatant murder,not only that but it was in international waters.

Israel need a serious kick up the hole because they just do whatever they want,something needs to be done about it.

The UN need to open their ****ing eyes and start realising this is practically terrorism.

 

[~N9NE~]

I think the world is finally awakening to the atrocious nature of Israel's behaviour. America's love in with Israel has to stop. Judge and treat everyone according to the same rules. Stop letting Israel do whatever they wish without challenge.

 

[Mota]

Not sure what to make of this Still foggy on the details, a lot of bias both ways.

Seems like Israel is in the wrong, international waters, armed commandos against civilians ship bring aids.

 

[Mic_128]

Bias both ways? The boat was full of aid supplies and volunteers. Yeah, there were people who had planned to protest something, but the facts are too overwhelming. there is NO REASON AT ALL for them to try and sneak aboard a bunch of boats at night with helicopters and armed commandos in international waters. They weren't even close to their borders yet, so they can't even say "hey whoops, we drifted a bit."

It was a planned op, and if it wasn't for the fact that there were reporters on board who managed to send out video footage before being overrun, it's likely the boats just would have vanished.

I bet North Korea's glad that this has taken the focus off them a bit >.>

 

[Inui]

Israel has very good reasons to act this way. They are constantly being threatened and always in danger of being attacked. How many people have said they want to wipe Israel off the map? I'd be overly cautious in their position as well.

 

[~N9NE~]

Israel has very good reasons to act this way. They are constantly being threatened and always in danger of being attacked. How many people have said they want to wipe Israel off the map? I'd be overly cautious in their position as well.

When you start thinking like that, you can justify almost anything, even terrorism.

Israel needs to be held accountable for their actions.

 

[Inui]

Would you say that if you lived in Israel? If you heard psychos with power on the news saying they wanted your nation to not exist anymore and terrorists saying they'd gladly use a nuke on you if they had it, would you want to care about how people view something like this? I sure wouldn't.

At the first whiff of a nuke existing in Iran, I'd blow them up first if I were Israel. There doesn't seem to be much room for being "moral" and stuff like that in those situations.

 

[~N9NE~]

Would you say that if you lived in Israel? If you heard psychos with power on the news saying they wanted your nation to not exist anymore and terrorists saying they'd gladly use a nuke on you if they had it, would you want to care about how people view something like this? I sure wouldn't.

At the first whiff of a nuke existing in Iran, I'd blow them up first if I were Israel. There doesn't seem to be much room for being "moral" and stuff like that in those situations.

If I lived in Israel I think the best method of action would be to stop killing Palestinians and increasing tension by occupying areas in Gaza. I would think it would be best to reach agreement diplomatically, not by dropping bombs on Lebanon. I wouldn't go killing people on aid missions. If I lived in Israel I would think it was wrong to use British passports as cover ups. If I lived in Israel I would think what Israel is doing is wrong.

I'm not saying Palestine and other countries have not done any wrong, they have.

Israel has more power than it's enemies and on top of that they seem to be immune from repercussions on an international stage as a result of their actions.

If you think everyone's against you, you'll turn out making enemies out of everyone. A 'Let's bomb them first' mentality is a horrible mentality to develop and that's putting it mildly. Israel's actions are only fuelling anger towards them and hostility towards Israel and feelings of Anti-Semitism.

Hostilty only breeds hostility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMzc1N1Cx3s

Watch this video. I don't know how genuine it is, but actions like these only breed hostility, anger and ultimately racism. The Israeli Palestinian conflict has to be resolved peacefully if we harbour any hope of allowing the next generation of Israeli and Palestinian children to grow up in peaceful societies where hatred towards Jews or Arabs is not a fundamental aspect of their daily lives.

 

[Grandeza]

So israel attacked unprovoked right? It's not like the other ship attacked first correct?

 

[El Nino]

Would you say that if you lived in Israel? If you heard psychos with power on the news saying they wanted your nation to not exist anymore and terrorists saying they'd gladly use a nuke on you if they had it, would you want to care about how people view something like this? I sure wouldn't.

Well, you probably saw this argument coming, but what would you say if you lived in Gaza?

You wouldn't need to care about psychos on the news or what they were saying; you'd be too busy worrying about the white phosphorus raining down on your head. You'd also be living under an embargo in which a foreign government that does not answer to you controls everything that goes in and out of your area, crippling your economy. You'd be living on rations and international aid.

It wouldn't matter what the psychos on the news said because they're obviously showing it to you. They clearly don't want you to exist. They may not ever say that they'd gladly nuke you, but they do like to rain conventional bombs on your head on a periodic basis.

My point is less to take sides and more to point out that the line of thinking that you are advocating goes both ways; people on either side of boundary are thinking the exact same thing about the other: "They want to kill us, so we must defend ourselves through the use of force."

At the first whiff of a nuke existing in Iran, I'd blow them up first if I were Israel. There doesn't seem to be much room for being "moral" and stuff like that in those situations.

Yeah, game theory at its most basic level. You seem to be suggesting that Israel has much to fear from Iran, while Iran is being a **** just because it hates Israel. As I see it, both nation-states fear each other, and both have reason to, and that is how these things escalate. Israel's use of force against Gaza is the exact same as Iran's nuclear weapon's program in that both are implemented with the idea of national security in mind. Both actions will also provoke the other side, and it will keep escalating, but neither side can stop because neither side trusts the other.

And that's Prisoner's Dilemma for you.

 

[Inui]

After watching this evening's episode of Glenn Beck, I can say I still stand by what I said. I think Israel is in the right, as usual. I don't care enough to bring up all of his points and research myself, though. You can check him out on YouTube or something if you care.

 

[Mic_128]

Inui, I thought we told you to knock off the trolling.

 

[Inui]

Inui, I thought we told you to knock off the trolling.

That actually made me laugh.

I always get tons of hate for liking Glenn Beck.

 

[Mic_128]

Then if you're serious, explain why you think it's perfectly fine that they attack a pair of unarmed aid ships in international waters at night with a bunch of commandoes air-dropped onboard via helicopters. Something a bit more substantial than 'everyone hates them.'

 

[Inui]

Then if you're serious, explain why you think it's perfectly fine that they attack a pair of unarmed aid ships in international waters at night with a bunch of commandoes air-dropped onboard via helicopters. Something a bit more substantial than 'everyone hates them.'

I don't care enough to bring up all of his points and research myself, though.

But I guess... Uh... He linked those ships to some bad organizations and showed a video where those soldiers were hit with metal rods and stuff, lol. That's the most brief explanation I can give.

 

[KevinM]

But again, where did they have the right to board the ships in international waters irregardless of being struck with rods.

The point is as soon as they initiated, they were in the wrong.

 

[Mic_128]

Oh man, you mean when their boat was invaded by what was effectively pirates, they fought back? No wai!

You can't say that your reason for attacking was that they would fight back.

 

[Inui]

Beck claimed the ships were asked to dock in either Israel or Egypt first. Apparently both countries requested it. The two ships refused.

Doesn't seem entirely unprovoked to me.

 

[Mic_128]

So does that mean if we asked an aid ship going to Singapore to dock at Australia first and they don't want to, we're allowed to find them in international waters, board the ship and kill/capture everyone on board?

 

[GoldShadow]

Beck claimed the ships were asked to dock in either Israel or Egypt first. Apparently both countries requested it. The two ships refused.

Doesn't seem entirely unprovoked to me.

How is that "provocation" in any sense of the word?

That might be (depending on the context) reason to investigate. It is absolutely not a reason to board with commandos and kill civilians.

 

[CRASHiC]

God I hate this country. Was the biggest mistake we made in creating the Post WWII world.

 

[Crimson King]

I actually agree with CRASHic. By stealing Palestinian land to creat Israel we created the most violent region in history. Good job!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Let's not shift the issue people, I promise you, Isreal's history is a great deal more complex then "stealing land", but the real blame goes back to Great Britain for promising the same land to 2 different groups.



Regardless, this is utterly and completely intolerable, yes they have a reason to be hyper-suspicious, but that does not justify blatantly illegal actions under International law.


This was at the very least, an act of war against Turkey, hell, probably could be considered an act of war against every UN member nation.



Inui, your statements could justify literally anything, including 99.9% of the terrorist* attacks against the US and her allies, and certainly the ones against Israel.



*The word is technically incorrect, however the civilian definition, while imprecise, will evoke the images of the attacks I'm trying to get across.

 

[UberMario]

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_15212093?source=pkg

Apparently the aid bringers weren't exactly peaceful.

 

[adumbrodeus]

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_15212093?source=pkg

Apparently the aid bringers weren't exactly peaceful.

So?


Commandos attack my ship and I'm grabbing whatever is convenient and attempt to take them out.


Doesn't mean they intended on violence, just that they resisted, and rightfully so.

 

[Mic_128]

Yeah, funny that those people would defend themselves from what was effectively a pirate attack. I actually had to laugh when they showed that footage on the news tonight with weapons such as "Broken bottle" and "slingshot" were shown.

 

[UberMario]

So?


Commandos attack my ship and I'm grabbing whatever is convenient and attempt to take them out.


Doesn't mean they intended on violence, just that they resisted, and rightfully so.

Clubbing and stabbing isn't intentional violence? and the ship the Israeli boarded was apparently from a group that was banned from Israel for two years, was told not to sail Gaza when they announced they left Turkey, and ignored radio demands to not come closer to Gaza when they were approaching land.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Clubbing and stabbing isn't intentional violence? and the ship the Israeli boarded was apparently from a group that was banned from Israel for two years, was told not to sail Gaza when they announced they left Turkey, and ignored radio demands to not come closer to Gaza when they were approaching land.

Since when is self-defense in international waters illegal?



Regardless of whether or not the group was banned from Israeli territory (which is legally, Israel's prerogative), Israel had no legal right to attack UNTIL THEY WERE IN ISRAELI TERRITORY.


Period.


Israel has NO jurisdiction in international waters, if they wanted to take the group into custody, they could do so after they were in an area where Israel was legally permitted to do so, not before.

Yeah, funny that those people would defend themselves from what was effectively a pirate attack. I actually had to laugh when they showed that footage on the news tonight with weapons such as "Broken bottle" and "slingshot" were shown.

Don't diss the slightshot, the IRA used it quite effectively. Not instantly lethal, but extremely accurate, and powerful enough to do serious damage.

[/weapons nerd side-note]

 

[Melomaniacal]

That actually made me laugh.

I always get tons of hate for liking Glenn Beck.

It's not about you liking Glenn Beck, it's about the way you take what he says to be the word of god without even looking at any other source. Kind of like everyone else who watches Beck.

Yeah, that just happened.

To make this post more on topic, it seems obvious to me that Israel is in the wrong. I haven't really stayed up-to-date with the news, though, is anything being done about it? Or is it all just talk?

 

[Mic_128]

I think Israel realised the ****storm it's kicked up and is sending the people they kidnapped back in bunches.