hi smashboards, i'm relatively new to the community. so i've been wondering if there is a surefire way/method to trade moves with a firefox that can actually be replicated and beneficial?
i first thought about this when researching about the "armada shine" and how that there is a window of opportunity consisting of no firefox hitboxes that allows another fox to shine spike them. before this "armada shine" was researched and discovered, i could distinctly remember times where i shine spiked a fox in his up b and thought to myself that it was just a random, 'only happens sometimes' occurrence. it was only later on that I learned that there was frame data and timing methods to turn this random occurrence into a helpful technique in the fox ditto matchup.
so then i began thinking of random situations in melee that didn't go as planned for me, but still ended up working, and i came up with the firefox trade situation. sometimes, when i went for a suicide dair offstage as falco onto a firefoxing fox, i would accidently trade moves with him and end up being able to recover, while the fox still dies from the knockback of my dair. this would also sometimes happen with other moves along with other characters.
is there a 10/10 way to consistenly trade moves with the firefox so you can go for suicidal edgeguards but still live? do some moves work better than others because of the hitbox/hurtbox arrangement? does priority play a role in this? is there an optimal timing window such as the "armada shine" to make this work more often?
i am honestly not really looking for a straightforward answer to this, but more so just a discussion about this topic. also, i do apologize if this topic was already brought up but i just really wanted to get it off my mind! thanks.
i first thought about this when researching about the "armada shine" and how that there is a window of opportunity consisting of no firefox hitboxes that allows another fox to shine spike them. before this "armada shine" was researched and discovered, i could distinctly remember times where i shine spiked a fox in his up b and thought to myself that it was just a random, 'only happens sometimes' occurrence. it was only later on that I learned that there was frame data and timing methods to turn this random occurrence into a helpful technique in the fox ditto matchup.
so then i began thinking of random situations in melee that didn't go as planned for me, but still ended up working, and i came up with the firefox trade situation. sometimes, when i went for a suicide dair offstage as falco onto a firefoxing fox, i would accidently trade moves with him and end up being able to recover, while the fox still dies from the knockback of my dair. this would also sometimes happen with other moves along with other characters.
is there a 10/10 way to consistenly trade moves with the firefox so you can go for suicidal edgeguards but still live? do some moves work better than others because of the hitbox/hurtbox arrangement? does priority play a role in this? is there an optimal timing window such as the "armada shine" to make this work more often?
i am honestly not really looking for a straightforward answer to this, but more so just a discussion about this topic. also, i do apologize if this topic was already brought up but i just really wanted to get it off my mind! thanks.