Infinite JC shine

[SuperChicken]

Can someone please type (obviously in chrono. order) what to press / move in order to do this? That way I can practice and have a new noob-bashing perk :] Please and thanks =P

 

[Hylian]

Down B

Jump

Down B

Jump

ect...


Very Very Very hard to do because you need to do this VERY VERY fast.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

8 Frames a piece actually

 

[takieddine]

I do it all the time in a pseudoinfinite(against falco) on Pokemon Stadium in the lava level XD

obviously you can tech out of it, but most people dont have the reaction time to know wtf is going on, so i could get an easy 40% in...lol

Once you get the rythm it becomes easy, and remember that the focus of this technique is to reach the b button while holding down before the jump initiates(like a frame or two) so at first you might find yourself gaining height, but if you're fast enough, you can stay on the ground and keep on shining.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I would recommend using Y, but if you originally jump with X, don't bother changing your style just for this, and also don't try changing it just for this technique and nothing else, it's not worth it.
Slide your thumb from B to Y as fast as you can at first, and once you get used to it, you'll eventually pick up the timing for when to shine before your jump, so don't worry immediately about timing it perfectly. You have to shine on the 4th frame after you jump. That I'm not COMPLETELY positive about though, ask Doraki if anyone objects to that frame comment.You can stay in your shine as long as you want though, probably not long. =P
It's basically only "useful" while hitting someone, so practicing it on nothing can get you confused with the timing due to hitlag. I'd suggest playing either a lv. 1 cpu or non-moving human with the damage ratio set to .5, and their handicap at 9 while your's is at 1. This will make it so you can shine them with either Fox or Falco and they won't budge.

 

[rokimomi]

I would advise you to do it with the Jump to B and not the other way. Much easier. If you're fast enough, it gives the same resaults.

 

[SuperChicken]

Thanks much, but I still can't get it down. Maybe it's the whole X to jump thing. Oh well, I'll keep practicing.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

double shine is pretty much the same concept in action

(Holding down)
BXB or BYB really fast

 

[BurningCrusader777]

It's just a bunch of JC'd Shines before you leave the ground.
Really hard, since you only have a few frames before Fox takes flight.

 

[Best101]

So is it easier with Falco? I was wondering about this move too, and is it good to kill shields with or should I just stick with Pillaring?

 

[The Blackstar]

Yes, it's easier with Falco because he has a slower jump animation.

It's nice when you're trying to break someone's shield because a lot of people will try to shieldgrab after that first shine, so the second one will hit them, but it's nowhere near an essential technique to learn. It's just flashy to use during a match.

I just do it as taunts when I waiting for someone to respawn.

 

[Zgetto]

i never use the dubbelshine.
i think its pretty worthless

 

[takieddine]

Its not worthless, the pressure you put on someone's shield will drive them to panic, You will not be shieldgrabbed against a proficient shieldgrabber, since they know to grab after the first shine, but you'll have a second one coming. doubleshining is also pretty useful if your first shinespike missed. (watch Javi's fox)

If you want to get flashy, doubleshines connect on a lot of characters after a full run. they can even doubleshine a falco/fox making for an easier shinespike.

You just have to get creative with it.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Heh people say it's easier with falco.........hmm not sure about that, just cuz his jump is slower and doesn't mean it's necessarily easier....just that the timing is different. I.E. if your fingers aren't fast enough yet, yah it's easier with falco, but once you can do it with fox, you actually have to slowdown with falco.

Here's a good practice tip, similar to what wolf said, however slightly different.
To get the timing right practice jumping with whatever button.......x/y or control stick if you're feeling lucky, and then slide to B and hold down to cancel your jump. If you can do that single jump cancelled shine well then start trying to chain em. Also don't think about it much. Try and keep your mind clear and the distance your finger travels to a minimum, it helps not to be frenzied, as in don't necassarily go your fastest, people are sometimes surprised that their fastest is actually too fast.

 

[Hylian]

To the person who asked if it was better to do this or pillar a shield..I usually just doubleshine the shield then start pillaring.

 

[rokimomi]

I guess you can use it for deflecting? Like double shining while opponant is attacking.

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

It's obviously easier for Falco, BECAUSE he is slower. "The timing will be different", is actually more like "Fox has to do it faster". Anyone can doubleshine with Falco, but when it gets to Fox, it gets a lot harder.

 

[rokimomi]

Lulz, I can only double shine with falco three times every now and then, and two times supa fast. Like five with fox, more if im lucky. Falco's ****ed up. I guess its cuz I dont have to time myself with fox. Just go fast.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Lol that's funny cuz last time I checked most people have the hand speed...they just don't have the timing....if you haven't noticed being technically good isn't necessarily how fast you can move your fingers across the pad so much as how well timed those button presses are.
Lol not sure what kinda fox you play.....but if you just spam button presses then you deserved to get decimated if you're not already getting destroyed. And if you don't main fox then you prolly dont have much insight into a "technically" ADAPTABLE fox.

 

[Hylian]

Dreamcloud...you are partly right and mostly wrong.

Yeah the timings are different. But falcos is easier. Want to know why?

Because You have more frames to preform falcos. So it is easier to find the timing. If you could SWD withing 10 frames of landing everyone would be able to get the timing relativly easily..but its only 1 frames so almost no one can.

It is easier to find the timing for falcos then fox's making falco's easier.

 

[rokimomi]

Lol that's funny cuz last time I checked most people have the hand speed...they just don't have the timing....if you haven't noticed being technically good isn't necessarily how fast you can move your fingers across the pad so much as how well timed those button presses are.
Lol not sure what kinda fox you play.....but if you just spam button presses then you deserved to get decimated if you're not already getting destroyed. And if you don't main fox then you prolly dont have much insight into a "technically" ADAPTABLE fox.

Im pretty aware on how a technical fox should play out. Others know it too. No I dont main fox but he's a side character. I can play pretty good. And mashing buttons doesnt get you anywhere no matter what character ur playin. I got the speed and timing for fox so no prob for that.

Not an attack on you, jus defending myself.

Search my vids (they're still old though)

 

[Nigzel]

I would advice you to ALWAYS SH with the stick... <_<

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Notice I said technically adaptable. Many people may have the tech skill....doesn't mean you know the match-ups nor have much experience with him. What is it to say I have a pretty good side character in fox? Does that mean you've actually played a decent number of tourney matches for experience or have friends who play various different characters that you gain experience from? That's rhetorical anyway, yes. You may have technique but without proper strategy and/or experience that technique doesn't do any work for you...

 

[rokimomi]

Just to bring it on the topic, doesnt adaptibility require the situation to be new to the player. If the situations were known through experience then it would be a technical and experienced fox, not adaptable. Adaptability is going into MLG after practicing with comps and instantly catching on to mindgames and such.

But sadly, I dont have a lot of tourny exp (none I should say) so Im forced to agree with that and From what Ive been doing (practicing with comps, then visiting humans for a couple weeks), I need to keep getting better each time, to, as you say, adapt. So yes, I need some work in that area. Lol, thanks for giving another area for me to improve in.

Sadly experience doesnt come in a visable bar I can graph or something, so my visual technical skill is all I can judge from and from whenever I play taki (wich never goes too well...).

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

Man, I'm so stereotyped in message boards. I keep thinking people with numbers in their usernames with low post counts(post count doesn't say anything, yes, I know) to be all pretty much idiots. I know it's just a stereotype, but d­a­m­n...

And good job sidestepping the facial Hylian just gave you.

/endsmallrant

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Heh hopefully that's not sarcastic but anyway.....hylian..you're wrong about the swd thing..... as shown in AR there are various different lengths of SWD if timed at specific frames in the animation. Also......falcos is "easier" for those who don't play fox........the timing is entirely different....if you try to shine too early then you screw it up and are not likely to do anything but stand there waiting to get hit. Even more evidence of this is falcos double or triple etc. shining shields. There's ALOT of lag....hit-lag especially. BTW falco's shine just for the record has significantly more hitlag than fox's shine...not to say that it doesn't still shellshock the opponent. In a sense you're right but at the same time it's tougher for those who like to switch between characters. I've learned that one develops a sort of feel, or if you will "eye", for the multi-shine as I have for l-cancels.

Also.....by adapatable I do mean what you have stated....ability to recognize and deal with new situations. However......to deal with those new situations more effectively one needs the mindset of an experienced player. Experience brings the confidence to take on new challenges and the clarity of mind to conquer them.

 

[rokimomi]

I guess my situation cant apply that too well.

Back on topic anyways.

About that speed thing, it helps alot. Falco's double shine (or fox's) can be super fast. The problem doesnt become being fast enough through the two buttons (Jump to B) but getting back to B fast enough (which is way harder) by using B to jump, super fast in that motion. Its as fast as fox's yet equaly timed as fox's button movements in the B to jump method. Ive only gotten two and really think its inefficient but its a thought.

 

[Nigzel]

Hey, let's go offtopic!

I might just add that you can use this a WSSmash, or better up - WSWSSmash. =)

Of course you have to be running for this to be effective at all.

 

[Hylian]

Heh hopefully that's not sarcastic but anyway.....hylian..you're wrong about the swd thing..... as shown in AR there are various different lengths of SWD if timed at specific frames in the animation. Also......falcos is "easier" for those who don't play fox........the timing is entirely different....if you try to shine too early then you screw it up and are not likely to do anything but stand there waiting to get hit. Even more evidence of this is falcos double or triple etc. shining shields. There's ALOT of lag....hit-lag especially. BTW falco's shine just for the record has significantly more hitlag than fox's shine...not to say that it doesn't still shellshock the opponent. In a sense you're right but at the same time it's tougher for those who like to switch between characters. I've learned that one develops a sort of feel, or if you will "eye", for the multi-shine as I have for l-cancels.

Also.....by adapatable I do mean what you have stated....ability to recognize and deal with new situations. However......to deal with those new situations more effectively one needs the mindset of an experienced player. Experience brings the confidence to take on new challenges and the clarity of mind to conquer them.

LOL. Ok ok hold on a resonable argument.

First off. No, I am not wrong. The SWD can only be preformed on one frame. And that is frame 43...They alter the lengths of the SWD by movements of the control stick. Considering you HAVE to be on the ground on frame 40 to move at all when SWDing and be holding one direction on frame 42 and another on frame 43 there is only one specific timing. The legnth of the SWD depends on what direction you hold the control stick how long you hold it and grappling. Nothing to do with timing at all.

And you are talking to a Fox/Samus main here. You are telling me that it is not easier for me to do falcos Double shine? Yes it is. I am a fox player yet I have an easier time doing Falcos because the frame window is larger. I can still do fox's as well just to let you know and I use falco as one of my counter pick characters so I switch between them often. Falcos DS is easier.

Also, are you aware that human eyes can only take in input and process it at 10 frames per second in this game? The difference between Falcos DS and Fox's DS is less then that meaning you cannot even see the difference in the timing. They are not THAT substantially different because falcos window to do it overlaps with Fox's meaning that you can use the same timing for BOTH OF THEM SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID.

And here you go again with the people having more trouble if they switch between them..no they don't. I am a fox/samus main like I said and I switch between them all the time and am fine. And I don't even know why you are brining l-cancling into this..that is so automatic in any good player they don't even have to think about if they want to do it where doubleshining may not always be the best option.

Oh yeah and props for sidestepping the facial then deciding to come back and just accept it.

 

[takieddine]

To end all discussion...

Fox's DS done at full speed ARE faster.

Falco's at full speed ARE slower.

Falco has a more forgiving execution since he has more of a window to let you shine. Fox's: 2 frame jump vs. falco's 3.

You have to slow yourself down for falco, actually just remodel your button mashing schemee to go from b to jump as fast as you can as opposed to jump to b with fox's low jump frames.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

So in other words they don't overlap.....also HEH, the SWD thing was a hit and miss.......just taking a guess. I suppose different levels of DI makes more sense anyway.

Are you aware that I put eye in quotations? Are you also aware that the eye I'm referring to is the mind's eye which can process at any given speed you can imagine as long as neural connections are strengthened? Don't take things literally unless it's fact or fictiion.........figurative speech.........read into it.

 

[Hylian]

So in other words they don't overlap.....also HEH, the SWD thing was a hit and miss.......just taking a guess. I suppose different levels of DI makes more sense anyway.

Are you aware that I put eye in quotations? Are you also aware that the eye I'm referring to is the mind's eye which can process at any given speed you can imagine as long as neural connections are strengthened? Don't take things literally unless it's fact or fictiion.........figurative speech.........read into it.

If I remember my frame data correctly there is 1 frame where they overlap..the 3rd frame for fox's and the first for falcos...

I wasn't refering to what you said about the "eye" at all in my previous post.. I was telling you that your eye's wouldn't be able to see the timing difference between Fox's and falcos doubleshine so there couldn't possible be a substantial difference in the timings which is what you were saying.

GG sir.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Lol so when did I ever refer to eye speed in literal terms?

Also how can there be one frame of overlap when falcos activates on two frames after foxes.....even with the low for falco and the high for fox they are activiating on completely different frames. I.E. at the fastest falco's takes 5 frames to activate and at the slowest fox's takes 4 frames.....so how do they overlap?

 

[Hylian]

Lol so when did I ever refer to eye speed in literal terms?

Also how can there be one frame of overlap when falcos activates on two frames after foxes.....even with the low for falco and the high for fox they are activiating on completely different frames. I.E. at the fastest falco's takes 5 frames to activate and at the slowest fox's takes 4 frames.....so how do they overlap?

Ahh I forgot that they are 1 frame apart >_>..Thats why I said IIRC.


And you didn't I was using it to prove my point.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Hylian, show mercy..
on topic: jc shine is a technique that takes time to learn lol

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Was that helpful?
And you think he won.....check m2k i'm right

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, show mercy..
on topic: jc shine is a technique that takes time to learn lol

LOL ok...

And I would rather not ask M2K I don't think he cares/

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Lol you don't think he cares? That's odd.....why else would he make a bajillion page stats page for smash.

 

[Hylian]

What is there to ask him? He would agree with me. Falcos is easier because he has a larger frame window to preform it in. What is left to argue about? Stop trying to be right and just accept it.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

That they don't overlap.......


And are two frames apart at all instances.