Improving game-play around L-canceling

[MagnesD3]

L-canceling is something you should always do, but it was a glitch or unintended quirk originally. So to pull it off, you obviously had to play it the way the game "wants" you to. Or, shield exactly when you hit the ground in this case.

Since Project M is able to change the environment and mechanics... L-canceling suddenly becomes very redundant. L-canceling is ALWAYS the right choice and ALWAYS happens the same way if you time it right. Keeping it this way actually raises the skill ceiling and creates more room for error.

From a competitive standpoint: that's one way to make a heated match even hotter. The more techs you know, the better you are. It also means that's one screw up an opponent can make that you can take advantage of.

From a casual standpoint: it's just random button pushing to get an advantage and ain't nobody got time for that brb too busy having simple fun. It's annoying to constantly do or even bother doing.

From a logical standpoint: it is always the superior option when landing and it happens the same exact way every time, considering you do it right. So it makes 0 sense as to why it's just not something that happens automatically without button pushing. Or remove it entirely. Leveling the playing field (the basic mechanics) makes more sense. Fighters are unique; general game play remains uniform without ever being over-complicated.

From a gaming standpoint: it lets the users decide how fast paced they want the battle to be. L-canceling will make things hectic no matter what, because you will always be doing something as soon as possible. For a less hectic match, the delay caused by landing helps slow down the pace.


IMO I liked L-canceling because I was competitive. But... Now I'm not. The idea of creating an unnecessary skill gap is actually quite infuriating. Gaps separate players and that's to be expected. Wavedashing is a good example, since it is a very valuable tech and the result is not always the same since you can change how you slide and where you slide. It becomes dumb (and therefore infuriating to see) when it's due to a tech that technically doesn't even require button pushing to make sense.

Even from a competitive standpoint I find the mechanic arbitrary in nature since everyone can do it, you always should do it and it has no strategy involved with it. As I said before I think it should be deleted or altered to make not l cancelling have a purpose. Deleting it makes more sense though. (coming from someone who thinks l cancelling is fun cuz more buttonz.)

 

[robosteven]

this thread again

 

[Paquito]

Even from a competitive standpoint I find the mechanic arbitrary in nature since everyone can do it, you always should do it and it has no strategy involved with it. As I said before I think it should be deleted or altered to make not l cancelling have a purpose. Deleting it makes more sense though. (coming from someone who thinks l cancelling is fun cuz more buttonz.)

Possible mechanic:

After an aerial attack that hits something, the character can get a knock back bonus on their next attack if the landing is not l-canceled.

 

[Narpas_sword]

NO.

****IGN STOP IT.

Your ideas to 'improve' it are stupid. Convoluted and totally stupid.

Either leave it as is, or remove it.

You talk like you've watched 3 episodes on a YouTube game design channel and expect to know everything.
Like someone whose taken psych101 and thinks they know how the world works.

 

[Paquito]

NO.

****IGN STOP IT.

Your ideas to 'improve' it are stupid. Convoluted and totally stupid.

Either leave it as is, or remove it.

You talk like you've watched 3 episodes on a YouTube game design channel and expect to know everything.
Like someone whose taken psych101 and thinks they know how the world works.

Dat rage. Here's a completely sincere question: Have you thought about seeing a therapist? I wrote this on like the first page of this thread, and it still applies:

This thread has allowed people, that love Smash Brothers, to discuss the gameplay mechanics surrounding L-canceling. We're doing so because it's fun to discuss game-design and consider different design decisions would affect the game. This is the case whether or not the Project M devs ever make changes to L-canceling.

I'm sorry the existence of this thread enrages you to the point that you feel the need to demand it be locked. Perhaps you should go take a walk.

 

[Narpas_sword]

a disclaimer doesn't make your ideas less stupid.

 

[Paquito]

a disclaimer doesn't make your ideas less stupid.

If therapy isn't your thing, you should consider smoking weed. It'll take the edge off

 

[Lil Puddin]

Even from a competitive standpoint I find the mechanic arbitrary in nature since everyone can do it, you always should do it and it has no strategy involved with it. As I said before I think it should be deleted or altered to make not l cancelling have a purpose. Deleting it makes more sense though. (coming from someone who thinks l cancelling is fun cuz more buttonz.)

Yes.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

If therapy isn't your thing, you should consider smoking weed. It'll take the edge off

Condescending and actually trying to antagonize isn't going to get you anywhere.

L-Canceling is worth discussing, but for the most part your ideas are just as arbitrary as having L-Canceling in the first place. And when that's mentioned, it always seems like you're getting butthurt about having your ideas labeled as stupid. What's up with that. :/

 

[Rhubarbo]

Just throwing this out there:

Under this system, there are three possible degrees of landing lag:

1) Universally Reduced Normal Landing Lag: This is like eating regular landing lag without an l-cancel, but it's universally reduced. Imagine this value at ~65% of typical landing lag.

2) Successful l-cancel: After an aerial, you can attempt an l-cancel. L-cancels will only work if they hit an opponent. This would be like a regular l-cancel at 50% of typical landing lag.

3) Failed l-cancel: If you attempt an l-cancel after an aerial but fail to hit an opponent, you will suffer extra landing lag. I think this value should be about 100% of typical landing lag, but arguments can be made for less or more frames within the parameters of this system.

 

[Paquito]

Condescending and actually trying to antagonize isn't going to get you anywhere... it always seems like you're getting butthurt about having your ideas labeled as stupid. What's up with that. :/

lulz. Me calling people out for being butthurt does not constitute me being butthurt. But nice try.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

lulz. Me calling people out for being butthurt does not constitute me being butthurt. But nice try.

You're doing it again.

 

[Narpas_sword]

lulz. Me calling people out for being butthurt does not constitute me being butthurt. But nice try.

yet you think im raging and need a therapist/weed.

ok guy.

 

[GP&B]

lulz. Me calling people out for being butthurt does not constitute me being butthurt. But nice try.

But you're being condescending as hell so there's that.

 

[Paquito]

You're doing it again.

What you're doing here is in every way equivalent, right down to impact, to the phrase "I know you are but what am I".

But you're being condescending as hell so there's that.

Yup. I'll make no bones about "showing a feeling of patronizing superiority" over posters that make posts like this...

NO.

****IGN STOP IT.

Your ideas to 'improve' it are stupid. Convoluted and totally stupid.

Either leave it as is, or remove it.

You talk like you've watched 3 episodes on a YouTube game design channel and expect to know everything.
Like someone whose taken psych101 and thinks they know how the world works.

... in a video game forum thread about game design.

 

[GP&B]

Yup. I'll make no bones about "showing a feeling of patronizing superiority" over posters that make posts like this...

That's in response to what you're already doing, genius. Not being a high and mighty asshole would perhaps help.

 

[Narpas_sword]

... in a video game forum thread about game design.

in a forum full of people who recognize your ideas as being stupid.

 

[Paquito]

That's in response to what you're already doing, genius. Not being a high and mighty ******* would perhaps help.

Erm, nope. That post of his was in response to this:

Possible mechanic:

After an aerial attack that hits something, the character can get a knock back bonus on their next attack if the landing is not l-canceled.

Which was my attempt to get the thread back on topic. Anyway, this is the second time I've seen this utterly ironic display of white-knighting on this forum. You do realize that the behavior you're criticizing me for was brought into this thread by the very posters you're trying to defend, right?

in a forum full of people who recognize your ideas as being stupid.

Good one!

 

[GP&B]

Not what I was even responding to.

You do realize that the behavior your criticizing me for was brought into this thread by the very posters you're trying to defend, right?

Bull****. It takes two.

 

[Paquito]

Bull****. It takes two.

Mmhmm. But what fascinates me is the fact that your ire isn't directed at the bully, it's directed at the guy poking back at the bully. That's a pretty odd sense of accountability you have there, buddy.

 

[GP&B]

This entire dispute happened because of your complete lack of awareness and inability to deal with criticism. The fact you're attributing a victim complex on yourself right now makes that clear as day.

 

[Narpas_sword]

This entire dispute happened because of your complete lack of awareness and inability to deal with criticism. The fact you're attributing a victim complex on yourself right now makes that clear as day.

careful bro, dont bully him, he might pout

 

[Paquito]

This entire dispute happened because of your complete lack of awareness and inability to deal with criticism. The fact you're attributing a victim complex on yourself right now makes that clear as day.

lol. OK. Point me to where you think this "dispute" started.

 

[Narpas_sword]

here, with these comment:

1MachGO's chest puffed out with pride. Another foolish petition stomped!

Miles overhead, the point flew over.

*whoosh*

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

What you're doing here is in every way equivalent, right down to impact, to the phrase "I know you are but what am I".

You're wrong. I was simply stating how things look to me, and you're following it up with condescension. Take a step back, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to be able to take criticism without lashing out like a child.

 

[Paquito]

here, with these comment:

The fact that you don't get 1MachGO's post itself was condescending is worthy of another *whoosh*!

You're wrong. I was simply stating how things look to me, and you're following it up with condescension. Take a step back, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to be able to take criticism without lashing out like a child.

Juxtaposing the tone of your post here with the tone of the "critical posts" you think I'm overreacting to is a pretty hilarious exercise.

 

[Narpas_sword]

it wasn't condescending. he was predicting how the thread would go, and he was right.

 

[Foo]

What are all of you? Little kids? Jesus, Joseph and Mary. I'm gone for 12 hours and this happens. I said three censored words, then paquito says I am, and I quote "choking on my own rage." The worst part is, the rest of you guys are just as bad. Can you guys stop flinging your own metaphorical dung at each other and just have a civilized discussion like adults?

Grow up.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Juxtaposing the tone of your post here with the tone of the "critical posts" you think I'm overreacting to is a pretty hilarious exercise.

My only tone when writing these is "Monotone".

 

[Foo]

My only tone when writing these is "Monotone".

Please stop, both of you, right now. You both are accomplishing exactly nothing right now. Not only that, but, quite frankly, your all embarrassing yourselves. If this thread doesn't go back to an actual discussion from whatever it is now, I'm going to ask a moderator to lock it, and believe me, they will.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Here's another system that popped into my head:

Hit L to halve landing-lag upon hitting an opponent.

Hit R to halve landing-lag upon hitting the ground.

I don't know, would a new character-state be needed for this sort of system?

 

[Shadic]

This thread has gone on enough. The L Canceling debate has been had time and time again, and nothing has ever come out of it.

There are no plans to alter how L Canceling works in Project M.

That is all.