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Improvement - Getting beyond 'The Point'

Seikend

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
415
NOTE: This is my opinion, not necessarily fact, mkay? And it's not too well written, just thought up during a particularly boring revision period at school XP.

A lot of players here will be at a point or have been at a point at which they can't seem to improve. They know that they can still get better but for some reason can't. I am one of these players stuck at this point. A lot of players often give up at this point as they feel that they're not good enough for Smash. However I believe that they're just missing one key step to get past this point. So where is this point? Well hopefully this post will answer that.

Without any AT( Advanced Techniques) (as most of us started) at the very start I believe that you can improve in almost any way, CPU, 1 player, humans, it doesn't matter. But as you improve without any AT you can only get better if you play someone at a similar or higher level. Else there's very little point in playing at all. Eventually without AT we get to the point where either we beat everyone we know and look on the internet to boast, see if there's anything you're missing etc. or we go against someone far superior who knows all the AT. This is the way in which most of us discover AT.

Once again, improving at the start of the discovery of AT is easy. Anything can be used. Once again however, a dead end is reached. This is the point. You know most of the AT for your character that you find useful, once again you defeat nearby people easily and CPUs are no longer a problem. So how do you get past this point? It's rather simple really. Play someone who already is VERY good at the game. Although you may have played people like this before now it's different. You know the AT. So what's the point then? The point is that you'll learn how to implement AT into your game. Most people will know Wavedashing, dashdancing but will just use it randomly, get punished from doing them or just don't see the advantage to them.To get past the point you need to learn how to apply AT to your game. You need to know when it's appropriate to play aggressively, when to wavedash, how to get your opponent into that all important grab. All of this can only really be learned from other people. Once you begin to learn how to implement AT into your game you have got past the point. Once you begin to learn how to do it to improve on it is rather simple in comparism to beginning implementation of AT.

So an easy way to get to play someone who can help you get past the point? Well I'm planning to attend a Smashfest or a Tourney and I suggest all you that feel that you aren't improving need to attend one as well. If you really want to improve attending one will give you a GREAT boost. You may end up getting owned a lot but you'll learn from watching and playing.

Thanks for reading all this, all comments appreciated ^^.
 

thebasman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
119
Location
Chicago, IL (Hyde Park)
I would disagree. You don't have to play someone better than you to improve. I live in a dorm where I'm the best person at Smash, but the people that are worse than me are constantly improving. So, I have to constantly improve in order to continue to compete, regardless of the fact that I'm already better. As long as you're surrounded by a group that's improving, you'll improve as well, regardless of skill level.
 

mikeHAZE

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
11,004
Location
North Hollywood, CA
yeah but basman, i bet you'll still get ***** at pretty much any tournament you go to because you are only getting better against your friends, rather than getting better through different people.

you're essentially getting better at playing bad people, where as you could get better playing a good person.
 

Cereal Rabbit

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
1,536
Location
Davis, CA
yeah but basman, i bet you'll still get ***** at pretty much any tournament you go to because you are only getting better against your friends, rather than getting better through different people.

you're essentially getting better at playing bad people, where as you could get better playing a good person.
Quoted for truth.

Do not play against a bad player. He will only drag you down to his level and then beat you with his experience.
 

slikvik

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
4,179
Location
**** MD/VA. I have no region. no really...
Talking with Cactuar, Scar, and Pakman a while back, we discussed three types of people that you need to play in order to improve

CACTUARS THEORY:)

1)The noob: This opponents allows you to practice different tricks and tech skill. You can be more creative with this type of opponent and discover some things that may work on more experienced players

2)The peer: This is the guy similar to you in skill. You play them all the time. This person is your motivation. You race to improve because you don't want this guy to get better than you

3)The pro: The guy winning all the money at tournaments. Find this person in your area and play with them as much as you are able. They will **** you hard at first. After a while, if you will begin to get ***** less and less.
 

Jx31

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Albany,ga
Talking with Cactuar, Scar, and Pakman a while back, we discussed three types of people that you need to play in order to improve

1)The noob: This opponents allows you to practice different tricks and tech skill. You can be more creative with this type of opponent and discover some things that may work on more experienced players

2)The peer: This is the guy similar to you in skill. You play them all the time. This person is your motivation. You race to improve because you don't want this guy to get better than you

3)The pro: The guy winning all the money at tournaments. Find this person in your area and play with them as much as you are able. They will **** you hard at first. After a while, if you will begin to get ***** less and less.
This is my problem, I'm pretty much only able to play "The pro"(Four top ten players+Crew). While this has improved my game vastly, I still can't get anywhere in tournaments. It's quite frustrating >.<.
 

Nonchalant

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
64
What I've found is when it's time to improve, stop playing to win, play to improve. My friends and I attended a smash tourny (we thought we were the ****) and got put in our place, we came back and I proposed that while playing each other we wern't trying to learn new things, but rather just to capitalize on what we already did. Instead I proposed that we learn new things and practice implementing them in our gameplay rather than being obsessed with beating each other, we practice with each other instead.


Perhaps people forget that in order to get better, one must practice, and that some times practicing is better than competing. If there's no money on the line then why not try something new? Hone your skills, become perfect, :D.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
Talking with Cactuar, Scar, and Pakman a while back, we discussed three types of people that you need to play in order to improve

1)The noob: This opponents allows you to practice different tricks and tech skill. You can be more creative with this type of opponent and discover some things that may work on more experienced players

2)The peer: This is the guy similar to you in skill. You play them all the time. This person is your motivation. You race to improve because you don't want this guy to get better than you

3)The pro: The guy winning all the money at tournaments. Find this person in your area and play with them as much as you are able. They will **** you hard at first. After a while, if you will begin to get ***** less and less.

Lol. This is my theory from top to bottom. There was no discussion with others in making it...
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Talking with Cactuar, Scar, and Pakman a while back, we discussed three types of people that you need to play in order to improve

CACTUARS THEORY:)

1)The noob: This opponents allows you to practice different tricks and tech skill. You can be more creative with this type of opponent and discover some things that may work on more experienced players

2)The peer: This is the guy similar to you in skill. You play them all the time. This person is your motivation. You race to improve because you don't want this guy to get better than you

3)The pro: The guy winning all the money at tournaments. Find this person in your area and play with them as much as you are able. They will **** you hard at first. After a while, if you will begin to get ***** less and less.
you dont have to play noobs to learn new tech, use it when youre playing friendlys with your friends or 'peers', the fact that it works on noobs means nothing.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
The theory doesn't state that you learn new tech from noobs. You play noobs to polish your tech skill through repetition. It gives you the most free reign to play on autopilot and make your style as solid as possible so that when you do play the peer or the pro, you mess up technically as little as possible.
 

Didipunk006

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
2
Location
quebec city
practice this to improve your gameplay

well this is my first reply on this site. i hope my english is good enough.
1 month ago i finally found someone to play with.
Our best character were fox and cheik. and watch one of our match is very incredible:

- we move very fast, chasing each other with a lot of dodges and jumps. at the beginning we were testing each other. few attacks were corectly delivered. Then we developed our strategy and our games were different. I think we are both very good and i can give u some tricks to success.

- first find the best move of your character. and practice these moves often. even if the % of your enemy is high he can steal deal some damage and annoy you so dont waste your time. u need to kill him rapidly when he is over 100% and when u have the chance dont miss it.

- Use the dodges and masterize them!!! this is very very very very important. dodging can help u move faster, switch behing your ennemy and evade attacks. dodging in the air is good if your ennemy is trying to hit you otherwise he will wait until u touch the ground and just smash u( this is a free hit) using dodges can force the opponent to use them too. force him to move and analyse how he react to your moves. most player always react the same way, u must predict what the other will do and then u can use strategy. use grabs when the ennemy dodge near u for exemple

-use fast attack when defending yourself (even if they dont deal too much damage) it prevent your enemy from doing successive hit and play with u like a dawn ball.

- when ur character is hit and fall on the ground wait 1 sec and figured out if its better to dodge or attack when standing up.

- never do the same 3 moves, eventually your oponent will be able to guess what you are about to do.

-when u are smashed outh the stage learn how to come back without being smashed again. from left or right: if ur UP+B move is good use it.
grip the edge of the stage then press a to attack or jump
use the evade move in the air if ur opponent tries to hit you
from the top of stage: press DOWN to fall rapidly, use the evade move, move to the left or right to run from the other one, attack while falling


well i hope these few tricks can help you. If you play against comps, you wont get better trust me u really need to find good players. watch some videos of tournaments on youtube it shows you different gameplay
 

Impact009

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
207
Location
The Woodlands, Texas
well this is my first reply on this site. i hope my english is good enough.
1 month ago i finally found someone to play with.
Our best character were fox and cheik. and watch one of our match is very incredible:

- we move very fast, chasing each other with a lot of dodges and jumps. at the beginning we were testing each other. few attacks were corectly delivered. Then we developed our strategy and our games were different. I think we are both very good and i can give u some tricks to success.

- first find the best move of your character. and practice these moves often. even if the % of your enemy is high he can steal deal some damage and annoy you so dont waste your time. u need to kill him rapidly when he is over 100% and when u have the chance dont miss it.

- Use the dodges and masterize them!!! this is very very very very important. dodging can help u move faster, switch behing your ennemy and evade attacks. dodging in the air is good if your ennemy is trying to hit you otherwise he will wait until u touch the ground and just smash u( this is a free hit) using dodges can force the opponent to use them too. force him to move and analyse how he react to your moves. most player always react the same way, u must predict what the other will do and then u can use strategy. use grabs when the ennemy dodge near u for exemple

-use fast attack when defending yourself (even if they dont deal too much damage) it prevent your enemy from doing successive hit and play with u like a dawn ball.

- when ur character is hit and fall on the ground wait 1 sec and figured out if its better to dodge or attack when standing up.

- never do the same 3 moves, eventually your oponent will be able to guess what you are about to do.

-when u are smashed outh the stage learn how to come back without being smashed again. from left or right: if ur UP+B move is good use it.
grip the edge of the stage then press a to attack or jump
use the evade move in the air if ur opponent tries to hit you
from the top of stage: press DOWN to fall rapidly, use the evade move, move to the left or right to run from the other one, attack while falling


well i hope these few tricks can help you. If you play against comps, you wont get better trust me u really need to find good players. watch some videos of tournaments on youtube it shows you different gameplay
Welcome to the forum mang.
 
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