[IMPORTANT] Low Resolution Pikmin

[Pyr0]

After some careful thinking, I have arrived to a conclusion as to why the Pikmin are so low-resed (not as good looking) compared to Olimar


Low Res: Take a look at purple pikmin's flower and overall lack of detail

This is to avoid lagging the game when a big number of pikmin are on the field, since the low-res textures require little (compared to high-res) system work, there can be more.

If sakurai's team gets real smart, they will probably apply a changable texture, so when theres lots of characters, pikmin get low res, and when there are few characters the pikmin get their detailed textures in.

Sakurai really is polishing any possible bugs out of the game (remember Ice Climbers Ditto in FOD lag? Begone!)

Props to you Sakurai!

 

[fouxs2]

I think they will remain like that regardless of how many players. Brawl looks amazing, almost CGI like in many aspects, but we can't push it in everything. The true fighter is Olimar, he can't be discarded, you can't forget him somewhere, so he'll obviosuly get amazing treatment. The Pikmin on the other hand get lower res so they don't push the game too far.

 

[Ruggeth]

Good find, but really

Anyone who's complaining about the pikmin's graphics is a loser. Really.

Who's going to have their head right up to the screen to examine the small creatures? "OH LOOK HIS NOSE DOESNT SHINE IN THIS SPOT OF LIGHT. TIEM TO COMPLAIN POST"

This is a great character update.

 

[Yigguth]

The pikmin look fine, it's their flower buds that bug me.. Plus there were 100 pikmin on screen at any given time in Pikmin, and their flowers looked fine... and that was gamecube

 

[Sgt.Frog]

Thankyou, captain obvious

 

[Pyr0]

Not complaining at all (in fact im complementing Sakurai), just pointing out the reason WHY it is for the many possible complaniers

And besides, while playing you wont notice the flowers at all...

 

[The Noob Legend]

Haha yeah.

You could be playing Brawl and be like..

"OMGZ ITZ FLWER IZ BWKWURZ"

 

[SSBBDaisy]

A prediction by me.

Not complaining at all (in fact im complementing Sakurai), just pointing out the reason WHY it is for the many possible complaniers

And besides, while playing you wont notice the flowers at all...

Pyr0 you have good logic. I second your thought. My bet is that sakurai is going to reveal an update about updating your Super Smash Brothers Brawl Software through wifi while playing the game so maybe he can fix that problem to prevent lag in the pikmin and even more things. I bet the updating your Super Smash Brothers Brawl Software will be the update for January 23. 2 Weeks from now on a Wendsday to release the really juicy info on brawl before the people in Japan that get the game reveal it or the roster. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!

 

[MK-Ultra]

I don't think that it's for technical reasons. Rather, it's in order to keep with the style of the original games, i think its pretty cool.

 

[Lone Spectator]

Maybe the Pikmin have simplistic grapics because they are simple creatures?

 

[FaceGuy]

I don't think that it's for technical reasons. Rather, it's in order to keep with the style of the original games, i think its pretty cool.

Problem with that theory is the flowers were much higher res in Pikmin and Pikmin 2, even when there was a lot going on at once. Although those games had a much slower pace than Smash Bros, I suppose it's excusable considering how unlikely it is to be noticeable. It still seems a shame, though. But I will live.

 

[EON_MagicMan]

It's redundant to point out, since I know what you all mean, but I think there's a bit of confusion from a technical standpoint as to what resolution (as in 'low-res' or 'high-res) is.

Resolution only applies to the texture (skin) of the model. For example, the lining and pockets on Olimar are texture onto the model. That is, they're not 3-dimensional, but rather they're painted on.

Considering the Pikmin don't exactly have texture, per se (they're simply models that are opaque colours), I think it's more exact to say they're low quality models (low-poly, they contain few triangles).

Just thought I'd throw the correction out there.

 

[CommanderGrit]

meh, their fine!

 

[Banjodorf]

Imo the Pikmin look the way they ought to, nothin' wrong with them.

 

[Pyr0]

It's redundant to point out, since I know what you all mean, but I think there's a bit of confusion from a technical standpoint as to what resolution (as in 'low-res' or 'high-res) is.

Resolution only applies to the texture (skin) of the model. For example, the lining and pockets on Olimar are texture onto the model. That is, they're not 3-dimensional, but rather they're painted on.

Considering the Pikmin don't exactly have texture, per se (they're simply models that are opaque colours), I think it's more exact to say they're low quality models (low-poly, they contain few triangles).

Just thought I'd throw the correction out there.

Your half right, 3D Models also are mesured in resolution (the unit being polys instead of pixels).

Also, the models in all of Brawl aren't extraodinary, In-fact (In my opinion) Melee's were better, however the textures being used in Brawl use a lot of new techniques such as normal, mixed and bump mapping (in short l33t thngies that make it look pwnsome and better) making them a lot better looking (to the point that they hide the average looking models.)

I prefer pimping the textures than the models, as the results look almost the same, the game runs way faster this way.

 

[EON_MagicMan]

Your half right, 3D Models also are mesured in resolution (the unit being polys instead of pixels).

Also, the models in all of Brawl aren't extraodinary, In-fact (In my opinion) Melee's were better, however the textures being used in Brawl use a lot of new techniques such as normal, mixed and bump mapping (in short l33t thngies that make it look pwnsome and better) making them a lot better looking (to the point that they hide the average looking models.)

I prefer pimping the textures than the models, as the results look almost the same, the game runs way faster this way.

Well, you learn something new every day.

I agree, the models in Brawl aren't superb (Snake looks like he belongs on the original X-box), but I think that's because the Wii isn't really a poly-pusher. I loved Melee's Bowser model (particularily the face, an excellent model considering the game was developed in 2001), and even though the Brawl models are only slightly above par compared to Melee's, I think conceptually they are better (except DK-- I think Melee DK is more true to his SNES incarnation the Brawl's DK).

Zelda gets a huge facelift (partly because her TP design is so much better), and characters like Mario, Ice Climbers, Peach and Yoshi benefit from graphical improvements (both conceptually and technically).

Either way, the low poly Pikmin are definitely not noticeably ugly from far, and will definitely do the trick as the action plays out (just not so much when you pause and rotate )

 

[Pyr0]

Either way, the low poly Pikmin are definitely not noticeably ugly from far, and will definitely do the trick as the action plays out (just not so much when you pause and rotate )

I guess we all can agree in this ^_^

Glad to know theres more smashers out there that know something about 3D :D

 

[Norm]

they are low poly but i assume that is because you may be able to have a lot of them at once and that they will be disposable.

 

[SolidSonic]

Its like, illegal to be negative at all here for some childish reason.

I ultimately don't care, but there still is no reason why their models look so plain and have zero detail.

 

[Pyr0]

but there still is no reason why their models look so plain and have zero detail.

Did you read the first post at all?

Its so the game wont lag when theres a big number of pikmin.

 

[Florida]

Makes sense. Though as I've said in another thread, that doesn't necessarily mean that one Olimar will be able to control 10+ Pikmin at a time. A big number of Pikmin could vary to just four P&Os in the same match. With all five Pikmin for each, still alive and about, that's 20 AIs running around and following commands.

My theory: the starting and maximum amount of Pikmin you're able to command is five, one of each type.
And I know that isn't what this thread is about, I just wanted to make it known.

Good speculation.

 

[Pyr0]

Of course, Dont get me wrong, I believe the Pikmin max. will be 5, otherwise it would just be overkill.

I'm mostly refering to possible Olimar Dittos, Adventure mode (more NPCs) and other random stuff.

 

[SolidSonic]

Did you read the first post at all?

Its so the game wont lag when theres a big number of pikmin.

Guess work, surely the Wii can handle something so simple, it handles other tasks of complexity.

 

[Pyr0]

Guess work, surely the Wii can handle something so simple, it handles other tasks of complexity.

Its more than guesswork

Its an Educated analysis (I do have extensive knowledge of 3D and videogames) using logic and past events.

In melee if you played Ice Climbers x4 in Fountain of Dream, there was a considerate framerate slowdown (Lag) and Sakurai knows it.

Thats 8 Characters, 4 of them being AI controlled (Partially)

Now... the Wii is roughly twice as powerful as the Gamecube, so the previous scenario should no longer be a problem.

But now think this:

Pikmin & Olimar x4

That is 24 characters of witch 20 are AI controlled (Partially)

Its quite the big load (more than double)... so how would a game designer try such a thing?
Reduce the stress produced by the rendering of 20 models...

how? make them lower poly and lighter textures (no bump/mixed/normal mapping)

I have quite a bit of experience studying how videogames work (nothing formal) So please understand, this isn't coming out of the blue.
I don't want to say the years, but lets put it like this: the first videogame I modded 100% was Doom...

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

nice eye. it makes sense

 

[SurooshX]

Its more than guesswork

Its an Educated analysis (I do have extensive knowledge of 3D and videogames) using logic and past events.

In melee if you played Ice Climbers x4 in Fountain of Dream, there was a considerate framerate slowdown (Lag) and Sakurai knows it.

Thats 8 Characters, 4 of them being AI controlled (Partially)

Now... the Wii is roughly twice as powerful as the Gamecube, so the previous scenario should no longer be a problem.

But now think this:

Pikmin & Olimar x4

That is 24 characters of witch 20 are AI controlled (Partially)

Its quite the big load (more than double)... so how would a game designer try such a thing?
Reduce the stress produced by the rendering of 20 models...

how? make them lower poly and lighter textures (no bump/mixed/normal mapping)

I have quite a bit of experience studying how videogames work (nothing formal) So please understand, this isn't coming out of the blue.
I don't want to say the years, but lets put it like this: the first videogame I modded 100% was Doom...

lol. I WISH the Wii was twice the power of the Cube. The Wii is more powerful than the gamecube, but not by an extensive amount. To compare, it's a bit more powerful than the X-box -- graphically speaking.

 

[SmashBro99]

I think they look fine.

Less lag = yay.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

lol. I WISH the Wii was twice the power of the Cube. The Wii is more powerful than the gamecube, but not by an extensive amount. To compare, it's a bit more powerful than the X-box -- graphically speaking.

the wii is basically an overclocked cube

 

[Lone Spectator]

lol. I WISH the Wii was twice the power of the Cube. The Wii is more powerful than the gamecube, but not by an extensive amount. To compare, it's a bit more powerful than the X-box -- graphically speaking.

But graphics don't measure how much crap there can be in the screen without slowdowns.

Right?

 

[Brawlmatt202]

The same kidn of goes with the Pokemon in Brawl as well, but I don't really care.

 

[W.Jr]

he likes striaght, i seen worse

 

[Pyr0]

lol. I WISH the Wii was twice the power of the Cube. The Wii is more powerful than the gamecube, but not by an extensive amount. To compare, it's a bit more powerful than the X-box -- graphically speaking.

graphic wise, perhaps.

But there are some rumors that say that Broadway (Wii's processor) is in fact a multicore processor capable of running more stuff at the same time (AI, music, plus helping out the GPU rendering process)

Making the Wii quite the little beast...

 

[Rhubarbo]

I don't really care...And don't dish the Brawl models, they're pure pwnage!

 

[LeadPenguin]

I obviously could probably do a little bit of searching and figure this out, but who's been doing all of the Smash Art in this pixel style? It's pretty awesome! So, you know, props to you or the artist. (And is there a site where I can see more of it?)

 

[Brawlmatt202]

I obviously could probably do a little bit of searching and figure this out, but who's been doing all of the Smash Art in this pixel style? It's pretty awesome! So, you know, props to you or the artist. (And is there a site where I can see more of it?)

You can find that and others here:

http://abysswolf.deviantart.com/art/Get-Ready-to-Update19-57207197

I personally like the King Dedede one!

 

[Collective of Bears]

It's fine. Do you really think that smack dab in the middle of a battle that you'll be paying extra-close attention to how the Pikmin look? I know I won't.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

They had to take some data out of the game disc so they could fit all the content in.

 

[Pulse]

Sure, they are lower in polys, but I think that the low poly Pikmin are about twice as huggable.

 

[Pyr0]

Sure, they are lower in polys, but I think that the low poly Pikmin are about twice as huggable.

They are pretty darn cute all right ^_^

I want some Pikmin Plushies! (too bad they are japan only T_T)

 

[genus]

This is a good observation; I'd noticed the lower quality myself and not put 2 and 2 together.

Just a shameless bump-post from an unknown lurker!