Impa, the Enigmatic Sheikah, Sage of Shadow

[Diddy Kong]

Seriously, how can Impa be obscure if her biggest roles are in games that where heavily promoted, as Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword and now Hyrule Warriors? At the very least she'll be recognized by those who have actually played Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. I wouldn't call that obscure at all. She's extremely important in both of the games' plots. And best thing yet, she will likely keep appearing in future Zelda titles and her role in the series might even get deeper. I doubt any other Zelda character will be able to do this in the same way Impa can. She has been around since the beginning, and now is at her peak of popularity and significance- including her in Smash is just a smart idea overall.

 

[Skyblade12]

Seriously, how can Impa be obscure if her biggest roles are in games that where heavily promoted, as Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword and now Hyrule Warriors? At the very least she'll be recognized by those who have actually played Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. I wouldn't call that obscure at all. She's extremely important in both of the games' plots. And best thing yet, she will likely keep appearing in future Zelda titles and her role in the series might even get deeper. I doubt any other Zelda character will be able to do this in the same way Impa can. She has been around since the beginning, and now is at her peak of popularity and significance- including her in Smash is just a smart idea overall.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Eiji Aounuma actually approached Sakurai and asked him to put Impa in. He's stated several times of his desire to shift the series up (part of why they made Hyrule Warriors, and more evidence can be seen in Link Between Worlds), and he has clear and distinct visions for the series.

I think he might very well have approached Sakurai, explained his take on things, and got him to put Impa in, as a character more styled after her Hyrule Warrior concept, a samurai and protector. It would help drive home the shifting feelings, and adapt people to the changes, while still having some familiarity.

 

[Neanderthal]

Robin is a character only known to those who have actually played Fire Emblem Awakening. The gender swapping and customization options precluded Robin from being used as advertising material. Yet, to anyone who has played Awakening, the character is instantly recognized and loved.

Not being known to the masses obviously crippled Robin's chances of getting in, which is why we're stuck with Chrom as the Awakening representative.

Like I said, it's about being important to the characters series and at least recognisable to most of those who have played games from the series.

If we put our bias aside, Impa unfortunately doesn't seem to tick either of these two boxes.



Just so my message doesn't get misunderstood, I think Impa has a good chance.
But not because she's significant to her series, or a well known character (she's neither of these things IMO).
Only because Zelda arguably needs a new rep and has very limited other options.
And because she could simply be made a clone/Luigifued clone.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

My definition of obscure relates to how well known a character is and how important they are to their series.

Greninja is the new Charizard and very very well know to anyone who has played or is familiar with the newest Pokegeneration.
WFT if very well recognised to almost anyone familiar with the Nintendo Wii.

Where as most people who play Zelda don't even realise Impa is a recurring character till someone points it out to them.
Possibly because she looks entirely different per game and seldom has a memorable role.

Impa is also only ever a story character in Zelda titles.
And only plays a significant role in at most two Zelda titles.

Sadly, I don't think HW will have any influence on SSB4 since it was only just released in Japan last week.

While I don't agree that Impa is "obscure," I will at least say that she is a character that tends to fly under the radar. She's typically in an odd position of a character most people don't think about it, but remember when mentioned.

I pointed out that his differences were generally animation changes.

What it comes down to for me is, if it's clear that a character was started as a clone and then tweaked, then I could not classify it as an original moveset.

It's fairly evident that his moves have massive parallel with foxes', just tweaked and re-animated.

Up B tweaked to remove the charge.
Side B tweaked to move diagonally.
Nuetral B tweaked to slower and more powerful.
Down B and final smash barely tweaked at all.

The most notable difference is the smash attack animations.
That solidifies him as Luigifued, but in my opinion, that doesn't constitute classing it as an 'original moveset'.

Again, that's just how I classify a clone. If your definition of an original moveset requires less distinction, that's fine.

If his animations, hitboxes, and damage properties are different (Hint: They are. All of them), he's not a clone. He doesn't need a completely "original" moveset for that. It's not as though you can prove that they just tweaked Fox to make him, anyway.

Allow me to also drop these references in:
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Clone#Clones_in_SSBB
http://smashboards.com/threads/wolf-and-fox-comparison-why-wolf-is-not-a-clone.140032/

 

[Skyblade12]

While I don't agree that Impa is "obscure," I will at least say that she is a character that tends to fly under the radar. She's typically in an odd position of a character most people don't think about it, but remember when mentioned.

Like Carmen Sandiego (hey, she was on a Super Nintendo game, we need to get her a support thread).


Yeah, Impa is pretty instantly recognizable to any Zelda player. She's getting more and more prominent roles in the series, and is probably going to continue increasing in visibility.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Like I said, it's about being important to the characters series and at least recognisable to most of those who have played games from the series.

If we put our bias aside, Impa unfortunately doesn't seem to tick either of these two boxes.



Just so my message doesn't get misunderstood, I think Impa has a good chance.
But not because she's significant to her series, or a well known character (she's neither of these things IMO).
Only because Zelda arguably needs a new rep and has very limited other options.
And because she could simply be made a clone/Luigifued clone.

If you've played Ocarina of time or skyward sword, you know who impa is and most fans of zelda have played at least one of those games if not both

 

[Neanderthal]

If his animations, hitboxes, and damage properties are different (Hint: They are. All of them), he's not a clone. He doesn't need a completely "original" moveset for that. It's not as though you can prove that they just tweaked Fox to make him, anyway.

Allow me to also drop these references in:
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Clone#Clones_in_SSBB
http://smashboards.com/threads/wolf-and-fox-comparison-why-wolf-is-not-a-clone.140032/

You're right, it can't be proven beyond doubt that Wolf was tweaked from Fox.
But it would have been a huge waste of time if they actually did create him ground up instead of tweaking fox, only to come up with very similar moves.

There's alot of a Wolf fans who ofcourse are going to bend their definition of an original moveset to deny his cloneliness.
But I think it's a big stretch to call his moveset "original".

I already exemplified how his specials are all just tweaked fox moves.

It's very easy to change a hitbox and damage properties of moves. This is done with all clones and so gives 0 credibility to your argument.

It all comes down to animation changes and minor functional tweaks (like I mentioned with the special moves) in the end.
And that's why I classify Wolf as a Luigified clone.


Just out of curiosity, do you consider Ganondorf's moveset to be original?

 

[Neanderthal]

If you've played Ocarina of time or skyward sword, you know who impa is and most fans of zelda have played at least one of those games if not both

In my experience people often remember her when you specifically point her out in Ocarina or Skyward (not usually just by name).

But few realise it was the same character between those two games. Let alone that she was the unrecognisable old lady, or fat lady in other games.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

You're right, it can't be proven beyond doubt that Wolf was tweaked from Fox.
But it would have been a huge waste of time if they actually did create him ground up instead of tweaking fox, only to come up with very similar moves.

There's alot of a Wolf fans who ofcourse are going to bend their definition of an original moveset to deny his cloneliness.
But I think it's a big stretch to call his moveset "original".

I already exemplified how his specials are all just tweaked fox moves.

It's very easy to change a hitbox and damage properties of moves. This is done with all clones and so gives 0 credibility to your argument.

It all comes down to animation changes and minor functional tweaks (like I mentioned with the special moves) in the end.
And that's why I classify Wolf as a Luigified clone.


Just out of curiosity, do you consider Ganondorf's moveset to be original?

I'm not particularly a Wolf fan; I wouldn't really be too sad if he got cut, though I do enjoy using him. I just can't consider a character whose moves are all different in almost every way a clone. "Original?" Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how you use the word, but I never called it original, just said he wasn't a clone. For the record, Luigi is not a clone (after SSB64) at all in my mind, and I also don't consider Falco, Lucas, or Toon Link to be clones, though they could be considered semi-clones. Wolf is not even a semi-clone in my mind, though.

And as for Ganondorf, I'd put him with semi-clones. His moves overall are pretty similar in function and animation, much more so than Wolf's, but he has enough differences that I don't consider him a complete clone.

Well, originally I kept discussing this because it was on the side while still talking about Impa, but since Impa is no longer part of this, this will be last post on the matter.

 

[Neanderthal]

I'm not particularly a Wolf fan; I wouldn't really be too sad if he got cut, though I do enjoy using him. I just can't consider a character whose moves are all different in almost every way a clone. "Original?" Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how you use the word, but I never called it original, just said he wasn't a clone. For the record, Luigi is not a clone (after SSB64) at all in my mind, and I also don't consider Falco, Lucas, or Toon Link to be clones, though they could be considered semi-clones. Wolf is not even a semi-clone in my mind, though.

And as for Ganondorf, I'd put him with semi-clones. His moves overall are pretty similar in function and animation, much more so than Wolf's, but he has enough differences that I don't consider him a complete clone.

Well, originally I kept discussing this because it was on the side while still talking about Impa, but since Impa is no longer part of this, this will be last post on the matter.

Fascinating not to consider Link and Toon link clones. I thought they were the most similar clones of any in Brawl.

I don't think there could possibly be anything inbetween original and semi clone.
Either it's an originally developed moveset, or it's a tweaked clone.

Agree, all that there is to say has been said.

 

[Skyblade12]

The next trailer is going to be Impa versus Ganondorf (with a revised move set). Just a feeling I have.

 

[L2 Sentinel]

I think you'd have to be pretty oblivious if you have played OoT and didn't recognize Impa in SS. Impa may change appearance every time, but so does Zelda. Zelda just has more exposure since she is the titular character of the series, but Impa's name is more recognizable than you are giving it credit for.

When Impa was first revealed in Hyrule Warriors, people recognized her. Even my friends, who are lukewarm on Nintendo, know who Impa is. At first, the trailers didn't even name Impa outright, yet people still knew who she was because of the Sheikah clothing and hair style. I read the comments on YouTube; the Impa hype was very real.

Zelda fans know who Impa is. If Impa is obscure, it's to non-Zelda fans. And at that point, who cares? Palutena is obscure to non-Kid Icarus fans. I didn't know who Meta Knight was until he was revealed in Brawl (never played Kirby before then), and do you really think people who don't play Pokemon know every pokemon that's been playable? I stopped after Gen1 and never heard of Lucario (I've since played Platinum and Y). And there were a lot of people in my boat; it wasn't' a situation unique to me. Being unknown to people who don't play the games a character appears in isn't really much of a mark against a character's chances.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Clone, semi-clone, or unique, it all adds up to why Impa would be one of the better choices in the first place. She would stay in the developer minds that way. Say they didn't decide to build on Impa as a fully unique character, she could still be considered as a clone or semi-clone. And that makes me confident we're gonna see her playable in one way or another.

 

[andimidna]

If Skyward Sword Impa is gonna be the main costume, I think we're quite likely to see Ocarina Impa as an alternative to. So that would satisfy most fans of the character I think. Sakurai might also go for Hyrule Warriors, because after all, Ganondorf in Melee was based on the Space World 2000 demo of Link and Ganondorf fighting. It's where he also got the sword from.

So, I still fail to see why it would be impossible to see Hyrule Warriors Impa.

And now with the confirmation of Zero Suit Samus in... work out clothes? as a last-minute alt, you're definitely right. Hyrule Warriors Impa could be made into an alt the same way, assuming Impa is in. She'd just have to be modeled into the same hitboxes, and her proportions might look different, but it would still be awesome af

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

So the leak is real and mario has 7 reps while pokemon and zelda have 5. It's clearly not the full roster so, Impa Confirmed

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa being rumored to appear on the roster to is indeed REAL good news! Am the most excited for this finally to happen! But am not gonna hold my breath too much, cause it'd be a real big kick in the nuts if it wasn't true that Impa is in at this point.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Impa being rumored to appear on the roster to is indeed REAL good news! Am the most excited for this finally to happen! But am not gonna hold my breath too much, cause it'd be a real big kick in the nuts if it wasn't true that Impa is in at this point.

Are you talking about the Ninka/Vanrose rumor? I am starting to doubt that Impa won't be in, unfortunately.

 

[Diddy Kong]

With so many Mario characters, Pokemon getting both Greninja and Mewtwo back and Dixie being a newcomer for Donkey Kong Country I have a real hard time to believe Zelda won't get a newcomer. Even Ganondorf is looking to be exactly like his Brawl self! Am hoping that Impa will at least give the series it's propper respect.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Just reread my last post... I meant that I am starting to doubt that Impa will be in the game. Meh, that's what I get for staying up late last night. Hopefully, the "leak" about Dixie, Chorus Men, and Mewtwo being the final characters is not entirely true.

And I absolutely agree with you @ Diddy Kong ! All we can do is just hope for the best.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

http://imgur.com/92NOfCW

What do you guys think? :D

 

[Diddy Kong]

http://imgur.com/92NOfCW

What do you guys think? :D

This can't be real right!?

 

[Bebe Mignon]

This can't be real right!?

I don't know. I WANT TO SAY YES, BUT I'M TOO SCARED. I

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't know. I WANT TO SAY YES, BUT I'M TOO SCARED. I

This is the same guy commenting who has provided these pictures yes??

 

[Bebe Mignon]

This is the same guy commenting who has provided these pictures yes??

Apparently, but I don't want to get our hopes up too high.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well there's no good reason NOT to believe him is there?

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Well there's no good reason NOT to believe him is there?

Well, I suppose there isn't any good reason to not believe him. I'm just going to wait until we get a picture of Impa before I scream to death.

 

[iam8bit]

Is there any reputable source that includes Impa in the roster?

Oh gawd, I don't want to get TOO excited.

 

[Ffamran]

I really want her to be in after seeing her in action in Hyrule Warriors. I've never felt this way with a character for Smash Bros. before. It's always go with the flow for me, but something about Impa really makes we want her in Smash Bros. If she's not in SSB4, then I'll hope that she'll be in SSB5 or DLC.

In contrast, I don't like Shulk for whatever reason. Something about him makes me despise him and I don't know why. Sort of the same feeling with Marth even after learning about him and knowing his legacy in Fire Emblem: Awakening. I just don't like them. That doesn't mean I won't play as them; I just don't like them for no reason at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, if this whole leak is 100% legit, and Impa is actually in... Do you guys think she'll be unique or a clone?

 

[iam8bit]

I hope original. Having half of the Zelda characters be clones would be pretty lame.

It's already sucky enough that Ganondorf seems to be his old C. Falcon cloney self...

 

[RayaGRH]

I am not convinced that Impa is in right now...I think she has a good shot, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet. I think Dixie, Ridley, Mewtwo and Chorus Kid fans have enough rumors to be pretty happy right now. Impa and Mach Rider fans less so, but we do have hope left. And that's more than can be said for 95% of the character threads right now. I really hope Impa makes it in though, I'm come to really love the idea.

As for a moveset, I wouldn't mind I suppose if she borrowed a few things from Sheik. As long as she had enough original stuff to make her unique. And as long as she moves/postures differently to Sheik, that is absolutely essential! Impa is so statuesque and put-together, it would be very strange if she was all wiry and bendy like Sheik.

 

[andimidna]

http://imgur.com/92NOfCW

What do you guys think? :D

Now THAT is a leak I like. (just look at muh sig)
I've heard the same lists over and over again and it's finally all coming together.

[collapse=Major Leak History Generalized:]

Sal Romano
-Villager
-Mega Man
-Wii Fit Trainer
-Little Mac
-Mii Fighters
-Pac-Man

Palutena
-Palutena

Gematsu
-Greninja
-Palutena
-Chrom Robin
-Shulk
-Chorus Men
-Lucas Cut
-DLC

Ninka
-Bowser Jr
-Dr. Mario
-Dark Pit
-Duck Hunt Dog
-Mewtwo
-Ridley
-Dixie Kong

Unknown Renders/ERSB
-Bowser Jr
-Dr. Mario
-Dark Pit
-Duck Hunt Dog
-Shulk
-Wario
-Mr. Game & Watch
-Ganondorf
-Falco
-R.O.B.
-Ness

UR/ERSB DLC (lies)
-Ice Climbers
-Wolf
-Lucas
-Snake
-Chorus Men

Ninka extension
-Impa
-Mach Rider

New imgur leak? Name?
-Mewtwo
-Mach Rider
-Impa
-Dixie Kong
-Ridley

With this, it seems the roster will be:
Everybody on the Unknown Renders Leak, Mewtwo, Mach Rider, Impa, Dixie Kong, Ridley, and Chorus Men?
Possibly with a couple of veterans from the fake DLC list? Anyways, Impa is becoming more and more promising.

I'm going to bet on the final non-Brawl list being:

Villager
Mega Man
Wii Fit Trainer
Rosalina and Luma
Little Mac
Greninja
Mii Fighters
Palutena
Pac-Man
Lucina (clone)
Robin
Shulk
Mewtwo
Ridley
Bowser Jr
Dr. Mario (clone)
Dark Pit (clone)
Dixie Kong (could be clone or not)
Impa (could be clone or not)
Chorus Men?
Mach Rider
Duck Hunt Dog
[/collapse]
Thoughts? Corrections?

 

[ihskeyp]

http://imgur.com/92NOfCW

What do you guys think? :D

I can't believe it. But I want to. And it might be true. Idk what to think. Having Palutena, Dixie, and Impa would make this game perfect for me. I really hope this is real.

 

[Skyblade12]

Is there any reputable source that includes Impa in the roster?

Oh gawd, I don't want to get TOO excited.

There's no reputable source for the roster at all, at this point. So, no.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Well there's no good reason NOT to believe him is there?

Apparently, he lied about dlc, hopefully he is serious this time

 

[andimidna]

Apparently, he lied about dlc, hopefully he is serious this time

According to @MASTERLINKX , Anon did lie about the DLC. He did it because he knew he could get away with it, y'know, having credible pictures and all.
Isn't that right Masterlinkx? (sorry for bothering you)
And since Ninka matches his leak, and there is now a complete list of 5 newcomers, yea, Impa seems very likely.
As do Mewtwo, Ridley, Dixie, and Mach Rider.
I have no idea what to believe about the Chorus Men at this point.
I just found out for sure that the Palutena Leaks were fake, was Gematsu really fake too?
I just thought that they were going to add Chrom but ditched the idea for Robin, and that's why it was wrong... but I don't know anymore... this is interesting...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Impa is quite likely to. Not only cause there's a ****ton of Mario characters, but more that I cannot picture there being no Zelda newcomer after Ganondorf getting horribly shafted again. Am still really hoping for a Greninja situation. With that, I mean her moveset would've been created before Hyrule Warriors but Impa would be using either the Giant Blade or Naginata.

 

[iam8bit]

I have no idea what to believe about the Chorus Men at this point.
I just found out for sure that the Palutena Leaks were fake, was Gematsu really fake too?
I just thought that they were going to add Chrom but ditched the idea for Robin, and that's why it was wrong... but I don't know anymore... this is interesting...

Gematsu was always either fake or just a partial leak (the first list). As seen by the lack of Chrom, the 2nd part was complete BS.

Chorus Men are neither in the CSS leak or the new list of names, so they are pretty much out of the running at this point.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If the Ice Climbers where cut due to technical difficulties, how the hell would a 3-in-1 character even work? I personally have never expected them.

Anyway, Impa should really happen. And am having good hopes!

It's been a real long and rough ride for Impa supporters. At first, people refused to take us serious because many of us advocated also for her being a Sheik replacement. Then came the Phantom, and the fiasco that people refused to believe it to be Zelda's Down B attack, and that Sheik would be gone or a separate character (nobody actually thought of the situation how it turned out to be: real ironic!). Then, Sheik returned which was a great blow to many. However, Hyrule Warriors came to be, and Impa suddenly got a great amount of fans (aka :bandwagonists ). Then, Lucina came and Sakurai stated that there'll be more character additions like her. Robin's confrimation also left us with the interessting "Trophy Theory" which many used to justify Ghirahim's inclusion, untill he got deconfirmed, hard (over-confident underminers of the greatness that is Impa ).

So now, Impa is rumored to be on the roster, as said by the very one who provided pics and video footage that cannot deny their authenticity.

Am happy I sticked with this character for so long. Her confirmation will be glorious!

 

[IceBreakerXY]

I always lurked around on this page but never commented manly because i was a tetra guy and i felt like commenting was trension but as of recent events i think you can call me a Impa guy.So **** yeah lets get her girl in the game