I'm Sold On It: Ravio For Smash 5

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#41
So to keep the discussion going, what would his stage and music be?
So I was thinking about a Hyrule/Lorule Castle stage that would have the stage switch between the two. In the Lorule version some of the platforms would be "decayed" and wouldn't work or something like that. Stage hazards could include monsters from the game and Yuga coming in to turn elements of the stage into paintings for a bit "burrying" anyone caught.
 
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#42
Well I guess I'll do the obligatory, "could Brave be our character?"

Honestly, its not completely unrelated to Ravio but not exactly a clear fit. In ALBW Ravio's character arc begins with him being too cowardly to stand up to Hilda and Yuga and by the end of the game he is able to stand between Link and Hilda potentially risking his life to protect her before finally standing up to her and telling her off. Because courage is a core element in both Ravio's character arc and in Zelda games in general the idea that the word Brave could be used to describe Ravio is not totally far-fetched.

The stats don't sound terribly unlike him either.

Of course none of this matters because it won't be him lol but fun to think about.

If I'm being honest I think the most likely candidate right now is Slime and that Erdrick shows up in his victory animation which is why his name is being tossed around so much.
 
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#44
As the owner of a Nabbit thread (unsure on whether it's in this forum too, could be just the Smash 4 DLC speculation one) I support all money-grabbing purple bunnies with hidden agendas whose answer to life is "fleeing",

As for Ravio himself, I'm actually working on an extensive moveset for him
Welcome! I'd love to compare movesets once you're done, mine is up a bit if you're curious but I love talking movesets with people.
 

Arcadenik

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#45
Not a big supporter but I am open to it. It would be nice to finally get a Zelda newcomer.

If Ravio doesn't make it, I hope he would at least be a Mii Fighter costume. Maybe Mii Swordfighter costume with Tornado Rod as his "sword" would be a good fit. This is how I would customize Ravio Mii Swordfighter's specials.

B - Gale Strike (Tornado Rod shoots tornados)
Side B - Chakram (acting as boomerang)
Up B - Hero's Spin (since he is Link's counterpart in Lorule)
Down B - Reversal Slash (so you can pretend the wind blew away the projectiles)
 
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#46
Not a big supporter but I am open to it. It would be nice to finally get a Zelda newcomer.

If Ravio doesn't make it, I hope he would at least be a Mii Fighter costume. Maybe Mii Swordfighter costume with Tornado Rod as his "sword" would be a good fit. This is how I would customize Ravio Mii Swordfighter's specials.

B - Gale Strike (Tornado Rod shoots tornados)
Side B - Chakram (acting as boomerang)
Up B - Hero's Spin (since he is Link's counterpart in Lorule)
Down B - Reversal Slash (so you can pretend the wind blew away the projectiles)
hmm I hadn't considered that but now I will be terribly offended if we don't get a Ravio costume, it seems too perfect.
 

fogbadge

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#47
hey i found my old moveset for him

as the character you acquire most of your arsenal from he has a lot of items he can use (work in progress)
B: Ice Rod, drops a chuck of ice in front of him
B side: fire rod, send burst of fire straight ahead
B up: tornado rod, flys upwards damaging enemies with wind
B down: hammer, slams the ground in front of him

side smash: swings his money sack
up smash: close range blast from fire rod overhead
down smash: close range blast from fire rod

strong side: swings fire and ice rods in a pincer movement
strong up: swipe with ice rod over head
strong down: swipes the ground with ice rod

neutral air: sheerow circles him
forward air: swings fire rod forwards leaving trail of fire
back air: swings ice rod behind leaving tail of ice
up air: spins the tornado rod over head
down air: swipes the tornado rod downwards

dash: trps up dropping ruppes that damage characters
grab: hookshot

pummel: sheerow pecks grabbed character
forward throw: throws forward and strikes with boomerang
back throw: throws behind and strikes with one of many rods
up throw: throws up a shoots with arrow
down throw: drops to ground and hits with hammer

final smash: Sand Rod, Ravio use the sand rod to summon sand pillars all over the stage damaging foes and throwing them upwards
 
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#48
hey i found my old moveset for him

as the character you acquire most of your arsenal from he has a lot of items he can use (work in progress)
B: Ice Rod, drops a chuck of ice in front of him
B side: fire rod, send burst of fire straight ahead
B up: tornado rod, flys upwards damaging enemies with wind
B down: hammer, slams the ground in front of him

side smash: swings his money sack
up smash: close range blast from fire rod overhead
down smash: close range blast from fire rod

strong side: swings fire and ice rods in a pincer movement
strong up: swipe with ice rod over head
strong down: swipes the ground with ice rod

neutral air: sheerow circles him
forward air: swings fire rod forwards leaving trail of fire
back air: swings ice rod behind leaving tail of ice
up air: spins the tornado rod over head
down air: swipes the tornado rod downwards

dash: trps up dropping ruppes that damage characters
grab: hookshot

pummel: sheerow pecks grabbed character
forward throw: throws forward and strikes with boomerang
back throw: throws behind and strikes with one of many rods
up throw: throws up a shoots with arrow
down throw: drops to ground and hits with hammer

final smash: Sand Rod, Ravio use the sand rod to summon sand pillars all over the stage damaging foes and throwing them upwards
I like this one a lot, I love that we both had the same idea for his dash attack lol
 
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#50
Not a big supporter but I am open to it. It would be nice to finally get a Zelda newcomer.

If Ravio doesn't make it, I hope he would at least be a Mii Fighter costume. Maybe Mii Swordfighter costume with Tornado Rod as his "sword" would be a good fit. This is how I would customize Ravio Mii Swordfighter's specials.

B - Gale Strike (Tornado Rod shoots tornados)
Side B - Chakram (acting as boomerang)
Up B - Hero's Spin (since he is Link's counterpart in Lorule)
Down B - Reversal Slash (so you can pretend the wind blew away the projectiles)
Until that time, there's the Barbara the Bat Wig or Waluigi's Hat and the Standard Sword Outfit, which slightly resembles the outfit worn by Young Link.

My moveset of choice is:

B: Gale Strike. The animation resembles that of the Fire Rod, the wind is from the Tornado Rod and the alternatives are a weapon not even in Zelda and a weird stabbo

Side B: Gale Stab: Inspired by the Pegasus Boots, combos nice with Gale Strike, both thematically and gameplay-wise and the simple animation with color-compliant purple streak means its less of a disbelief breaking choice than an item that's not even in Zelda

Up B: Hero's Spin: Yeah this one's obvious

Down B: Reversal Slash: Based on the rainbow gooey stuff between dimensions in ALBW and how Ravio's Bracelet "countered" Yiga's painting magic and the simple fact that the others are painfully generic and I like Ravio to be a little tricksy here
 
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#51
So what kind of color schemes would people want? I was thinking,

  • Purple with blue scarf
  • Red with green
  • Green with purple
  • Blue with yellow
  • Orange with light blue
  • Light blue with red
  • Yellow with black
  • Black with white and the mask would have red eyes.
 
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#53
shocktarts17 shocktarts17 you seem to be the undisputed biggest fan of Ravio in Smash, so would you mind explaining to me why you feel he's a great rep for Zelda?
I think personally there are two sides to my desire to see Ravio in Smash and both of them together make him one of the best options (in my opinion) for a Zelda rep.

First from the Smash side of things, most Zelda fans agree that we'd love to get another fighter from the Zelda series but almost everyone disagrees with who it should be. Due to the nature of Zelda games a lot of the characters outside of the triforce holders only really get used in one game then aren't seen again, this causes problems for Smash because by the time the next game is out the character is no longer relevant or ever seen again (see Shiek). Because of this I feel like the best Zelda rep would be someone who has the potential for some staying power over some of the other villains or allies who have already missed their shot. Ravio fits here as not only a relevant Zelda character (the most recent top down Zelda) but because of the role he played in the game as a shop keeper he could continue to show up in Zelda games doing the same thing. On top of this, while most of the Zelda characters could say the same thing, he has great moveset potential showcasing a key aspect of the Zelda games, the items.

So while he makes a great addition to Smash, the second half of the answer comes from his role in Zelda.
Ravio is a great addition to the Zelda cast because of his relationship to Link. At the end of the game we learn that Ravio was the parallel Link from Lorule. Before the game started he learned of Hilda and Yuga's plans to steal the triforce and opposed the idea, but was too afraid to do anything himself. So he heads off to warn Link and help him from behind the scenes. By the end of the game he ends up finding his own courage and both standing up to Link to get him to spare Hilda, then standing up to Hilda to convince her that stealing the triforce is not the proper way to save their world. Ravio's journey from coward to bravery is such a cool thing to see in a game where the hero is always brave and is famously known as such.
On top of all that he is a great foil to Link, who is fairly stoic, being someone who is a little weird and goofy. He somewhat fills a similar role to Tingle in that regard, but considerably less annoyingly so. He also has a great look that is both distinct and memorable. Because of this I think both his character and the Lorule cast have such potential for future games and really hope that they don't end up just another set of one-off characters, and being featured in Smash is a great way to make that happen.

Overall while there might be more iconic characters, or characters from more popular games, Ravio to me feels like the perfect amount of relevant, iconic, likable, and bursting with moveset potential.
 

Tetrin

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#56
I think personally there are two sides to my desire to see Ravio in Smash and both of them together make him one of the best options (in my opinion) for a Zelda rep.

First from the Smash side of things, most Zelda fans agree that we'd love to get another fighter from the Zelda series but almost everyone disagrees with who it should be. Due to the nature of Zelda games a lot of the characters outside of the triforce holders only really get used in one game then aren't seen again, this causes problems for Smash because by the time the next game is out the character is no longer relevant or ever seen again (see Shiek). Because of this I feel like the best Zelda rep would be someone who has the potential for some staying power over some of the other villains or allies who have already missed their shot. Ravio fits here as not only a relevant Zelda character (the most recent top down Zelda) but because of the role he played in the game as a shop keeper he could continue to show up in Zelda games doing the same thing. On top of this, while most of the Zelda characters could say the same thing, he has great moveset potential showcasing a key aspect of the Zelda games, the items.

So while he makes a great addition to Smash, the second half of the answer comes from his role in Zelda.
Ravio is a great addition to the Zelda cast because of his relationship to Link. At the end of the game we learn that Ravio was the parallel Link from Lorule. Before the game started he learned of Hilda and Yuga's plans to steal the triforce and opposed the idea, but was too afraid to do anything himself. So he heads off to warn Link and help him from behind the scenes. By the end of the game he ends up finding his own courage and both standing up to Link to get him to spare Hilda, then standing up to Hilda to convince her that stealing the triforce is not the proper way to save their world. Ravio's journey from coward to bravery is such a cool thing to see in a game where the hero is always brave and is famously known as such.
On top of all that he is a great foil to Link, who is fairly stoic, being someone who is a little weird and goofy. He somewhat fills a similar role to Tingle in that regard, but considerably less annoyingly so. He also has a great look that is both distinct and memorable. Because of this I think both his character and the Lorule cast have such potential for future games and really hope that they don't end up just another set of one-off characters, and being featured in Smash is a great way to make that happen.

Overall while there might be more iconic characters, or characters from more popular games, Ravio to me feels like the perfect amount of relevant, iconic, likable, and bursting with moveset potential.
So to you, what would be your ideal lineup for the Zelda series in Smash?

Also yes I do want Ravio in more games and I wear his mask a lot in BotW :p
 
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#57
So to you, what would be your ideal lineup for the Zelda series in Smash?

Also yes I do want Ravio in more games and I wear his mask a lot in BotW :p
Hmm that's a tough one. If I'm limited to just the slots we already have I'd probably replace Young Link with Ravio and Shiek with Impa (just a design chance, keep the same moveset). If I got more slots I like the idea of Ganon joining with his classic look using his trident and magic, I'd probably even be willing to see Ganondorf get bumped back to an echo if it meant we could get a true Ganon moveset.

Beyond that I think there are a ton of great Zelda characters who would all be great additions to Smash.
 

Tetrin

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#58
Hmm that's a tough one. If I'm limited to just the slots we already have I'd probably replace Young Link with Ravio and Shiek with Impa (just a design chance, keep the same moveset). If I got more slots I like the idea of Ganon joining with his classic look using his trident and magic, I'd probably even be willing to see Ganondorf get bumped back to an echo if it meant we could get a true Ganon moveset.

Beyond that I think there are a ton of great Zelda characters who would all be great additions to Smash.
Of course you can get more slots. Personally I think 7 does Zelda justice since Fire Emblem having more (while a good series) just doesn't sit right with me.

I guess it's unpopular to think Sheik deserves a spot then, huh.

She comes from Ocarina of Time, which is one of the most iconic, well-received, and popular games in the series. I feel like the game is worthy of a rep on its own.

I agree Young Link should be cut. 3 Links with very similar fighting styles is a disservice to a franchise that makes abundantly clear its options. Next game I think it's safe to say that Champion Link will be reverted to his regular old self (unless the legacy lives on for that long and/or there's a sequel where Link plays the exact same as he did in BotW), but I'm starting to think that maybe Champion Link would be better than Toon Link to rep Zelda. Yes, Toon Link's been in more games, but Champion Link just has a lot more potential to deviate from Link. Revali's Gale as a recovery (with the paraglider, too), Daruk's protection as a shield (obviously scaled down and nerfed), maybe even have cooking or checking the map his taunts. At any rate, I feel like a proper way to rep Zelda would be some combination of these characters:

Should be in every game:
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Impa

Debatable:
Sheik
Skull Kid
Ravio
Ganon
Toon Link
Midna & Wolf Link
Ghirahim

Ah yes my post wasn't related to the thread at all :)

Anyway, thanks for the insight on Ravio; my perspective on him has swayed in his favor.
 
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#59
Of course you can get more slots. Personally I think 7 does Zelda justice since Fire Emblem having more (while a good series) just doesn't sit right with me.

I guess it's unpopular to think Sheik deserves a spot then, huh.

She comes from Ocarina of Time, which is one of the most iconic, well-received, and popular games in the series. I feel like the game is worthy of a rep on its own.

I agree Young Link should be cut. 3 Links with very similar fighting styles is a disservice to a franchise that makes abundantly clear its options. Next game I think it's safe to say that Champion Link will be reverted to his regular old self (unless the legacy lives on for that long and/or there's a sequel where Link plays the exact same as he did in BotW), but I'm starting to think that maybe Champion Link would be better than Toon Link to rep Zelda. Yes, Toon Link's been in more games, but Champion Link just has a lot more potential to deviate from Link. Revali's Gale as a recovery (with the paraglider, too), Daruk's protection as a shield (obviously scaled down and nerfed), maybe even have cooking or checking the map his taunts. At any rate, I feel like a proper way to rep Zelda would be some combination of these characters:

Should be in every game:
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Impa

Debatable:
Sheik
Skull Kid
Ravio
Ganon
Toon Link
Midna & Wolf Link
Ghirahim

Ah yes my post wasn't related to the thread at all :)

Anyway, thanks for the insight on Ravio; my perspective on him has swayed in his favor.
I think Shiek was a product of the original transformation in Zelda's moveset and none of her moves really come from her. If Impa didn't exist I wouldn't have any issue with Shiek but in a world where an actual ninja exists and "deserves" a slot it's hard to justify a "ninja" disguise who never actually is seen doing that stuff (nor would she really have any reason to know ninja stuff).

I don't think Link was changed that much to begin with (bombs being remote isn't that different and the arrow thing you wouldn't even notice unless you really tried), and he's been changed before to fit the current game so I don't mind it too much.
 

Tetrin

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#60
I think Shiek was a product of the original transformation in Zelda's moveset and none of her moves really come from her. If Impa didn't exist I wouldn't have any issue with Shiek but in a world where an actual ninja exists and "deserves" a slot it's hard to justify a "ninja" disguise who never actually is seen doing that stuff (nor would she really have any reason to know ninja stuff).

I don't think Link was changed that much to begin with (bombs being remote isn't that different and the arrow thing you wouldn't even notice unless you really tried), and he's been changed before to fit the current game so I don't mind it too much.
So change her moveset. Keep her as being a quick ninja but incorporate songs from OoT. None of them aren't used offensively but have the attacks be loosely based on where the respective songs teleport you to, i.e., a fire move for Bolero of Fire, a natural move for Minuet of Forest, etc. Not saying those examples in particular should be added, just a proof of concept. Besides, Impa could use the Giant Blade and/or Naginata like she does in Hyrule Warriors.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Impa doesn't fight that much, anyway.

Link wasn't changed too much, I agree, but he could've been changed a lot more for what it's worth. Throwing a feathered spear as an up smash, charge attacking with a Savage Lynel Crusher for a forward b, so on so forth. I meant that he could've been a more unique fighter than he was given credit for, kind of like how Lucas is just a semi clone of Ness instead of using moves he actually learns in Mother 3 or Mario not using Cappy very much at all.
 
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#62
So change her moveset. Keep her as being a quick ninja but incorporate songs from OoT. None of them aren't used offensively but have the attacks be loosely based on where the respective songs teleport you to, i.e., a fire move for Bolero of Fire, a natural move for Minuet of Forest, etc. Not saying those examples in particular should be added, just a proof of concept. Besides, Impa could use the Giant Blade and/or Naginata like she does in Hyrule Warriors.
I'm not opposed to the idea and think that a Zelda fighter using music would be a good thing since that is a frequently important element to the game, I just don't know if Shiek being a one off character who is technically already represented in the roster really deserves a slot over some other characters after Impa takes her moveset.

And as much as I live Hyrule Warriors I'm not sure how people would feel having a character heavily inspired from a non-canon spin-off game.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Impa doesn't fight that much, anyway.
No, once in SS but even then its with magic and a big sword if I remember correctly. But she is heavily implied to be a highly trained ninja since she is acting as Zelda's body guard so it makes more sense than Zelda suddenly becoming a highly trained ninja by putting on a costume.

Link wasn't changed too much, I agree, but he could've been changed a lot more for what it's worth. Throwing a feathered spear as an up smash, charge attacking with a Savage Lynel Crusher for a forward b, so on so forth. I meant that he could've been a more unique fighter than he was given credit for, kind of like how Lucas is just a semi clone of Ness instead of using moves he actually learns in Mother 3 or Mario not using Cappy very much at all.
I agree that there is a lot you could do with a Champion Link move set but I have two concerns with it, drastically changing his moveset upsetting his previous fans (see the fact that they are already upset how much he changed) and basing his moveset so heavily off of one game even if its a super popular game runs the risk of making it irrelevant by the time the next game comes out. Better to leave Link using things he uses in most every game. I could maybe see dropping Toon Link for a Champion Link semi-clone and making the original Link use the ALBW design and his standard moveset if they plan to continue making BotW type games and we're done with Toon Link.

i was running the support thread back during smash 4's time
Haha fair enough, the crown is yours then.
 
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fogbadge

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#63
I'm not opposed to the idea and think that a Zelda fighter using music would be a good thing since that is a frequently important element to the game, I just don't know if Shiek being a one off character who is technically already represented in the roster really deserves a slot over some other characters after Impa takes her moveset.

And as much as I live Hyrule Warriors I'm not sure how people would feel having a character heavily inspired from a non-canon spin-off game.
most impa supporters seem to be ok with the idea

Haha fair enough, the crown is yours then.
well in the true spirit of ravio i feel i should sell it to you
 
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#65
most impa supporters seem to be ok with the idea
Honestly I think that is because most Impa supporters want her in because shes a recurring character and since Sheik is there they use Hyrule Warriors to justify a different moveset.

I have no doubt it would be cool and that it would work but a whole moveset based off a spin-off game is not anything Sakurai has done before.
 
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#66
Honestly I think that is because most Impa supporters want her in because shes a recurring character and since Sheik is there they use Hyrule Warriors to justify a different moveset.

I have no doubt it would be cool and that it would work but a whole moveset based off a spin-off game is not anything Sakurai has done before.
Yeah, the thing is he relies on his own creativity and doesn't necessarily copy movesets 1:1. Take :ultmegaman:, who plays nothing like he does in Marvel Vs. Capcom. It's a little more excusable with fighting game characters.

This may be one of the reasons he hasn't gotten around to any actual new unique Zelda characters, it can be tough to come up with fresh material for those that never saw fighting of any sort in official Zelda entries.

Although I do laugh at the Link's uncle suggestion from the Brawl days.
 
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#67
Yeah, the thing is he relies on his own creativity and doesn't necessarily copy movesets 1:1. Take :ultmegaman:, who plays nothing like he does in Marvel Vs. Capcom. It's a little more excusable with fighting game characters.
Yeah I think there are a bunch of ways you can represent a character but Sakurai and his team really do justice to most of the cast (certain kings of darkness aside)
 

Tetrin

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#68
I'm not opposed to the idea and think that a Zelda fighter using music would be a good thing since that is a frequently important element to the game, I just don't know if Shiek being a one off character who is technically already represented in the roster really deserves a slot over some other characters after Impa takes her moveset.

And as much as I live Hyrule Warriors I'm not sure how people would feel having a character heavily inspired from a non-canon spin-off game.

No, once in SS but even then its with magic and a big sword if I remember correctly. But she is heavily implied to be a highly trained ninja since she is acting as Zelda's body guard so it makes more sense than Zelda suddenly becoming a highly trained ninja by putting on a costume.

I agree that there is a lot you could do with a Champion Link move set but I have two concerns with it, drastically changing his moveset upsetting his previous fans (see the fact that they are already upset how much he changed) and basing his moveset so heavily off of one game even if its a super popular game runs the risk of making it irrelevant by the time the next game comes out. Better to leave Link using things he uses in most every game. I could maybe see dropping Toon Link for a Champion Link semi-clone and making the original Link use the ALBW design and his standard moveset if they plan to continue making BotW type games and we're done with Toon Link.
To be fair, you could argue Ravio is also a one-off character who is technically represented in the form of Link. I'd say OoT is kind of like the defining game for the franchise, apart from the first game and maybe MM or BotW, but I still think she's earned a spot just for being an important character in arguably the most iconic game.

Having a character based off of a non-canon spin-off title is something I'd argue is better than a largely fabricated and/or nonsensical moveset. Just look at the outrage Ganondorf caused for years. Sheik's moveset has faint relation to her but adding in some variety to connect more closely to her home game would probably work out best. Impa's moveset could implement what she's actually shown to use in SS (which was the Giant Sword in Hyrule Warriors iirc) while still maintaining ninja-like moves. Having one or two similar moves won't render her an automatic semi-clone.

Drastic changes to Link is something I agree wouldn't work with fans. A semi clone would be better if Nintendo goes for more BotW-like games (which is practically inevitable with the success of BotW in mind), but the argument is pointless now since I don't think he'd be a proper addition anymore :p
 
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#70
To be fair, you could argue Ravio is also a one-off character who is technically represented in the form of Link.
I've been mulling this over for a while but I think the closest comparison I can come up with is Supergirl vs Powergirl. Technically the same but no one would ever call them the same character, I guess the same could be said of the different Links in general but those are at least supposed to be somewhat the same person reincarnated or whatever.

I'd say OoT is kind of like the defining game for the franchise, apart from the first game and maybe MM or BotW, but I still think she's earned a spot just for being an important character in arguably the most iconic game.
I'm not going to say OoT isn't iconic but I'd also argue that Ganondorf is currently representing it with his OoT look. But I have no issues with Sheik by herself I just think there is more diversity that could be added to the Zelda roster somewhere else. But I suppose you bring up a good point about comparing her to Ravio so I'll concede the point here.

Having a character based off of a non-canon spin-off title is something I'd argue is better than a largely fabricated and/or nonsensical moveset. Just look at the outrage Ganondorf caused for years. Sheik's moveset has faint relation to her but adding in some variety to connect more closely to her home game would probably work out best. Impa's moveset could implement what she's actually shown to use in SS (which was the Giant Sword in Hyrule Warriors iirc) while still maintaining ninja-like moves. Having one or two similar moves won't render her an automatic semi-clone.
I agree here but I think the key would be inspiration from Hyrule Warriors while being in her SS form (which is 100% her best look), not a direct port of her Hyrule Warriors weapon/look/moveset.

Okay, but what about legal issues? They would have to get Koei Tecmo's approval to yank Ravio's moveset wholesale, and look at Ultimate's base game; no Hyrule Warriors content of any sort, not even music.
I suspect in the cases of everyone but Lana/Linkle/Cia the rights to the character and stuff still belong to Nintendo. There might be issues if they wanted to use the exact look but even then how much can Koei own of a character that Nintendo already owns?
 
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#71
I suspect in the cases of everyone but Lana/Linkle/Cia the rights to the character and stuff still belong to Nintendo. There might be issues if they wanted to use the exact look but even then how much can Koei own of a character that Nintendo already owns?
That's an excellent question. The royal twins in FE Warriors don't have spirits either. Yet Yuri, a pure-bred KT character, had no problems getting an AT. Then there's Ganondorf's HW look not getting used at all, even as an alt costume.

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Tetrin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
481
Switch FC
SW-7468-3675-9681
#72
I've been mulling this over for a while but I think the closest comparison I can come up with is Supergirl vs Powergirl. Technically the same but no one would ever call them the same character, I guess the same could be said of the different Links in general but those are at least supposed to be somewhat the same person reincarnated or whatever.

I'm not going to say OoT isn't iconic but I'd also argue that Ganondorf is currently representing it with his OoT look. But I have no issues with Sheik by herself I just think there is more diversity that could be added to the Zelda roster somewhere else. But I suppose you bring up a good point about comparing her to Ravio so I'll concede the point here.
Sheik is essentially unrecognizable had it not been for "subtle" hints at her true identity. Replacing some moves with things involving the harp would work, since it's true to character. I guess it's something we'll have to agree to disagree on, but I still think Sheik is the perfect rep for OoT; prominent and mysterious character that's also well-liked among Zelda fans. Demoting her to a transformation of Zelda still makes sense to me, even though a lot of people didn't like it, but I think she should make a playable appearance at the very least.

Then change his design back to Twilight Princess. It's a game that also sold great, so I see no reason to rebut it, unless you also really want Midna.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
983
Location
Indiana
#73
Sheik is essentially unrecognizable had it not been for "subtle" hints at her true identity. Replacing some moves with things involving the harp would work, since it's true to character. I guess it's something we'll have to agree to disagree on, but I still think Sheik is the perfect rep for OoT; prominent and mysterious character that's also well-liked among Zelda fans. Demoting her to a transformation of Zelda still makes sense to me, even though a lot of people didn't like it, but I think she should make a playable appearance at the very least.

Then change his design back to Twilight Princess. It's a game that also sold great, so I see no reason to rebut it, unless you also really want Midna.
I think Ganondorf should stay in his OoT look since it's really his first appearance but again I like the harp idea so if Sheik used that I would be fine with her staying in, I just don't think I would pick her.
 

LYD

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
#74
ive decided to dig up my 3ds the other day and replayed some link between worlds lately and my love for ravio has grown even more. ravio is the character i want the most in smash for several reasons, not only does he help with zelda representation, which is somewhat scarce simce their last newcomer was toon link in brawl, but ravio also brings several unique attributes to the table. for one his main weapon is a hammer, which as far as i can remember only kirby and king dedede use hammers in their movesets, ravio also has all four rods from a link between worlds giving him plenty of moveset potential. and last but not least, there’s ravio’s bracelet which lets him merge into walls and paintings, which could create a unique shield mechanic. with all of that in mind i decided to create a moveset for ravio! i would love to be added to the op as a supporter and if this moveset could be added to the op i’d be grateful too, without further ado here’s my moveset:

  • ravio is based off of link but counts pretty much as a brand new character thanks to the massive ampunt of differences:
  • instead of using a sword ravio uses his hammer, whose attacks deal more damage and have a higher knockback growth, at the expense of some extra lag and—of course—less range. the basic moves for link are kept though, just replcaing the sword with a hammer.
  • ravio’s shield makes him turn into a paiting in a frame similar to the one that yuga uses on his attacks in a link between worlds. ravios unique shield is also immune to shield damage and grabs. instead of a shriking shield, the “shield timer” is instead displayed by an energy gauge similar to that of a link between worlds, but to keep things fair using any attack also takes up a bit of the energy gauge, especially if the attack is charged, and special attacks take up even more, with the only exception being the one or two aerials in which ravio doesn’t use any weapon. that way ravio’s “shield” is a powerful tool, but one that can’t be used too often. ravio’s roll also has him turn into a paiting and walk away, but unlike regular rolls it also takes up some energy from the energy gauge. if ravio runs out of energy he can recharge with an energy potion which can be consumed by pressing shield and down à la inkling, fills about a fourth of the energy gauge but has some lag.
  • sheerow’s also a part of ravio’s game. he has 36 HP and unlike luma can’t be respawned unless ravio is ko’d. sheerow can’t be controlled while ravio is in hitstun too. sheerow always follows ravio in both the x and y axis but his position may be changed with some special moves. sheerow also attacks à la luma, but he only has five attacks which are triggered by different moves:
    • sheerow neutral aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow performs a quick spin on the air which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: neutral attack, neutral aerial.
    • sheerow forward aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow performs a quick peck on the air which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: dash attack, forward tilt, forward smash, forward aerial.
    • sheerow back aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow flaps his wings backwards which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: back aerial.
    • sheerow up aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow performs a flutter pushing opponents upwards which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: up tilt, up smash, up aerial.
    • sheerow down aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow flaps his wings downward which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: down tilt, down smash, down aerial.
  • lastly, all of ravio’s specials are completely changed in comparison to link’s:
    • neutral special: ice rod. a block of ice is summoned above ravio and a bit on front of him, ravio has little lag during the move but it takes some frames until the ice block drops. opponents caught by the ice are briefly frozen, which can lead to some follow-ups. the move can also be charged for more damage and consequently more freeze time. commands sheerow to fly be right in front of ravio.
    • side special: fire rod. ravio releases a ball of fire which grows into a pillar upon touching the ground or an opponent. the move has a bit of startlag but traps opponents à la pk fire and holy water. this move too can be charged so that it deals slightly more damage, travels further, travels faster, creates a taller pillar, and lasts longer. commands sheerow to fly forward following the pillar of fire.
    • up special: tornado rod. a gust of wind blows ravio upward, theres a windbox that pushes opponents away from ravio too. this recovery goes as high as link’s up special, roughly. commands sheerow to fly a bit upwards, which when combined with ravio’s move in the y axis makes it so sheerow recovers higher.
    • down special: sand rod. four pillars of sand rise up in front of ravio quickly, opponents caught are stunned and burrowed at the top of the pillar. this move does have noticeable start- and end-lag, though. if used near the ledge, the pillar can also block the ledge, making it so the ledge is actually on top of the pillar instead, which can make it hard for some characters to recover. if this move is used on the air, it’s slightly faster and creates only one pillar below ravio. opponents caught below are also trapped and get grounded when the sand brings them to the top of the pillar, which makes it super dangerous to be below ravio. this move can only be used once in the air before hitting the ground again, and the sand pillar ground doesn’t count as actual ground neither for this move nor for up special. sand pillars last for about a second and also stop projectiles. commands sheerow to fly be right in front of ravio.
i hope you guys liked my moveset, let’s hope ravio makes it in one day, cheers!
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
983
Location
Indiana
#75
ive decided to dig up my 3ds the other day and replayed some link between worlds lately and my love for ravio has grown even more. ravio is the character i want the most in smash for several reasons, not only does he help with zelda representation, which is somewhat scarce simce their last newcomer was toon link in brawl, but ravio also brings several unique attributes to the table. for one his main weapon is a hammer, which as far as i can remember only kirby and king dedede use hammers in their movesets, ravio also has all four rods from a link between worlds giving him plenty of moveset potential. and last but not least, there’s ravio’s bracelet which lets him merge into walls and paintings, which could create a unique shield mechanic. with all of that in mind i decided to create a moveset for ravio! i would love to be added to the op as a supporter and if this moveset could be added to the op i’d be grateful too, without further ado here’s my moveset:

  • ravio is based off of link but counts pretty much as a brand new character thanks to the massive ampunt of differences:
  • instead of using a sword ravio uses his hammer, whose attacks deal more damage and have a higher knockback growth, at the expense of some extra lag and—of course—less range. the basic moves for link are kept though, just replcaing the sword with a hammer.
  • ravio’s shield makes him turn into a paiting in a frame similar to the one that yuga uses on his attacks in a link between worlds. ravios unique shield is also immune to shield damage and grabs. instead of a shriking shield, the “shield timer” is instead displayed by an energy gauge similar to that of a link between worlds, but to keep things fair using any attack also takes up a bit of the energy gauge, especially if the attack is charged, and special attacks take up even more, with the only exception being the one or two aerials in which ravio doesn’t use any weapon. that way ravio’s “shield” is a powerful tool, but one that can’t be used too often. ravio’s roll also has him turn into a paiting and walk away, but unlike regular rolls it also takes up some energy from the energy gauge. if ravio runs out of energy he can recharge with an energy potion which can be consumed by pressing shield and down à la inkling, fills about a fourth of the energy gauge but has some lag.
  • sheerow’s also a part of ravio’s game. he has 36 HP and unlike luma can’t be respawned unless ravio is ko’d. sheerow can’t be controlled while ravio is in hitstun too. sheerow always follows ravio in both the x and y axis but his position may be changed with some special moves. sheerow also attacks à la luma, but he only has five attacks which are triggered by different moves:
    • sheerow neutral aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow performs a quick spin on the air which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: neutral attack, neutral aerial.
    • sheerow forward aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow performs a quick peck on the air which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: dash attack, forward tilt, forward smash, forward aerial.
    • sheerow back aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow flaps his wings backwards which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: back aerial.
    • sheerow up aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow performs a flutter pushing opponents upwards which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: up tilt, up smash, up aerial.
    • sheerow down aerial: with a very small hitbox, sheerow flaps his wings downward which comes out insanely fast but does measly damage. triggered by the following ravio attacks: down tilt, down smash, down aerial.
  • lastly, all of ravio’s specials are completely changed in comparison to link’s:
    • neutral special: ice rod. a block of ice is summoned above ravio and a bit on front of him, ravio has little lag during the move but it takes some frames until the ice block drops. opponents caught by the ice are briefly frozen, which can lead to some follow-ups. the move can also be charged for more damage and consequently more freeze time. commands sheerow to fly be right in front of ravio.
    • side special: fire rod. ravio releases a ball of fire which grows into a pillar upon touching the ground or an opponent. the move has a bit of startlag but traps opponents à la pk fire and holy water. this move too can be charged so that it deals slightly more damage, travels further, travels faster, creates a taller pillar, and lasts longer. commands sheerow to fly forward following the pillar of fire.
    • up special: tornado rod. a gust of wind blows ravio upward, theres a windbox that pushes opponents away from ravio too. this recovery goes as high as link’s up special, roughly. commands sheerow to fly a bit upwards, which when combined with ravio’s move in the y axis makes it so sheerow recovers higher.
    • down special: sand rod. four pillars of sand rise up in front of ravio quickly, opponents caught are stunned and burrowed at the top of the pillar. this move does have noticeable start- and end-lag, though. if used near the ledge, the pillar can also block the ledge, making it so the ledge is actually on top of the pillar instead, which can make it hard for some characters to recover. if this move is used on the air, it’s slightly faster and creates only one pillar below ravio. opponents caught below are also trapped and get grounded when the sand brings them to the top of the pillar, which makes it super dangerous to be below ravio. this move can only be used once in the air before hitting the ground again, and the sand pillar ground doesn’t count as actual ground neither for this move nor for up special. sand pillars last for about a second and also stop projectiles. commands sheerow to fly be right in front of ravio.
i hope you guys liked my moveset, let’s hope ravio makes it in one day, cheers!
I think there are some cool ideas for your moveset but some of the aspects could use a little refinement.
  • Personally I don't think Ravio should behave at all like Link, but on top of that having Ravio swing a hammer around the same way Link swings his sword would look kinda weird at times.
  • The shield mechanic sounds interesting but is almost surely broken. I know you added the energy gauge but being able to shield basically without any risk is still super strong. I think you could use the painting aspect for his dodge and rolls simply for cosmetic effect without having to worry about balance issues.
  • I like the idea of Sheerow being in Ravio's moveset, but I don't think he should steal Rosalina's identity by having Sheerow be like a Luma. Sheerow could still be a part of Ravio's attacks without needing to be some separate entity.
  • Your specials sound good but I think the down special sounds confusing. I think the blocking aspect sounds good but the burying parts are weird and might be better if it just pushed them back off the other side of the block.
if you're curious I made a moveset for Ravio that you can checkout that might give you some different ideas to help refine yours out.
To start I had two main goals when designing this moveset, make sure he didn't end up too similar to the 3 Links and stay as faithful to the rental items from ALBW. I figured he would be a zoner who plays defensively and keeps their distance between them and the opponent while racking up damage.
Ravio’s Moveset
Stats
Walking Speed:
4/10
Running Speed: 6/10
Jump: 5/10
Weight: 4/10
Specials
Neutral Special (B):
Rental Ice Rod. Drops an ice chuck straight down in front of Ravio. Charging the attack creates a larger chuck, fully charging freezes the opponent. Ice lingers briefly after the attack ends and will affect the opponent as if they were hit if they touch it.
Forward Special: Rental Fire Rod. Shoots a pillar of fire straight forward. Charging the attack shoots it further out.
Up Special: Rental Tornado Rod. Causes a gust of wind below Ravio to launch him up. Opponents caught are carried up and damaged by the wind.
Down Special: Rental Sand Rod. Sand pillars appear on each side of Ravio while charging (similar to Pits shield.) When released sand moves away from Ravio (similar to Isaac's move.) Longer charge pushes sand further.
Standards
Jab (A):
Two flailing hook punches followed by lobbing a rental bomb just in front of him which explodes for minor damage and knockback on contact with opponent or stage.
Forward Tilt: Ravio swings the Rental Hammer down over his head.
Up Tilt: Ravio "collects" a rupee and holds it over his head in the classic Zelda item collection pose.
Down Tilt: Ravio rolls a Rental Bomb on the ground which explodes on contact with opponent.
Dash Attack: Ravio trips and his bag of rupees falls forward hitting the opponent and spilling the rupees.
Smash Attacks
Forward Smash:
Ravio throws the Rental Boomerang forward a short distance (similar to Mega Man's F-smash.)
Up Smash: Ravio uses the Rental Sand Rod to push himself up into the opponent with an uppercut.
Down Smash: Ravio throws the Rental Boomerang so it spins around him on each side.
Aerial Attacks
Neutral Air:
Ravio spins in the air with the Rental Sand Rod in his hand, sand spins around with him holding any caught opponents close (similar to Zelda's neutral air.)
Forward Air: Ravio uses the Rental Tornado Rod to blast air forward pushing him back and damaging anyone hit.
Back Air: Ravio swings the Rental Hammer in a horizontal arc behind him doing high knockback and damage.
Up Air: Ravio points the Rental Fire Rod up and a blast of fire appears above him (similar to Zelda's up air.)
Down Air: Ravio points the Rental Ice Rod down which drops an ice chuck straight down. Spikes opponents hit.
Grabs
Pummel (Grab then A):
Ravio grabs with the hookshot (also a tether recovery). His pummel has Sheerow attacking the opponent while Ravio hangs on to them.
Forward Throw: Ravio pushes the opponent forward then shoots them with the Rental Bow.
Back Throw: Ravio throws the opponent behind him onto a Rental Bomb Sheerow had placed.
Up Throw: Ravio throws the opponent up and shoots the Rental Bow at them.
Down Throw: Ravio throws the opponent down and then sets his heavy rupee bag on them.

Final Smash
Final Smash Name:
Yuga's Rampage. Ravio tackles forward, if he connects the scene shifts to Hyrule Castle where Yuga shows up to blast everyone into paintings. Ravio pops back out of his painting after Yuga flys away thanks to his bracelet and runs away leaving a big bomb to blow the rest of the paintings up.
Taunts
Up Taunt:
Sheerow circles around Ravio while he watches her.
Forward Taunt: Ravio turns his back to the screen and pulls his hood up to wipe his forehead off, he then gives a slight look back before pulling it down again.
Down Taunt: Ravio pulls out his rupee bag and gazes into it with Sheerow looking over his shoulder.
 

LYD

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Brazil
#76
Personally I don't think Ravio should behave at all like Link, but on top of that having Ravio swing a hammer around the same way Link swings his sword would look kinda weird at times.
hmm, fair enough. it was mostly laziness to create a full fledged moveset, but in reality it wouldn’t fit at all, you’re right.
The shield mechanic sounds interesting but is almost surely broken. I know you added the energy gauge but being able to shield basically without any risk is still super strong. I think you could use the painting aspect for his dodge and rolls simply for cosmetic effect without having to worry about balance issues.
guess i’ll have to agree with you once again, the energy gauge may not be enough to keep that balanced, the only issue is that i don’t see how a character would be able to grab ravio from a painting or shieldbreak him from a painting, but i guess it’s better to have it be this way than giving him a broken shield, once again you’re right.
I like the idea of Sheerow being in Ravio's moveset, but I don't think he should steal Rosalina's identity by having Sheerow be like a Luma. Sheerow could still be a part of Ravio's attacks without needing to be some separate entity.
hmm, that’s a very fair point, i didn’t think of it like that, i just felt it would be nice to include sheerow somewhere but, you’re right, stealing rosalina’s gimmick isn’t the best of approaches. perhaps speerow could act as a grab of sorts? that surely sounds interesting, as sheerow’s main role in albw is to grab items and what not.
Your specials sound good but I think the down special sounds confusing. I think the blocking aspect sounds good but the burying parts are weird and might be better if it just pushed them back off the other side of the block.
hmm that’s fair yeah, i just wanted to try to mimic a link between worlds in which oppinents caught rise up and get stuned, it’s not exactly burrowing but i think it’s close enough. if anything it probably feels more wise for opponents to be just pushed upward? i also wanted to make it so the move was useable in the air so that’s why i had that mechanic going, probably not too wise but whatever.

regardless thanks for providing insight on my moveset, i actually like yours a lot and it’s pretty similar to the idea i had, so might as well disregard mine in favor of yours hahahah.

either way let’s hope for ravio to make it in eventually!! link between worlds was such a stellar game, i’d be delighted if ravio could see the light of day in smash!
 
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Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
983
Location
Indiana
#77
So since it's been confirmed that DLC characters will get a Palutena's Guidance what would Ravio's look like? I feel like the Rabbit ears could come up with Viridi and there would probably be a joke about him looking like Nabbit as well as Link I'd guess.
 

Cracke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
202
Location
In the attic
#79
We're definitely not getting him for Smash Ultimate DLC, but maybe we could see him for a fan game like ssf2? His chances in that are small too though.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
983
Location
Indiana
#80
We're definitely not getting him for Smash Ultimate DLC, but maybe we could see him for a fan game like ssf2? His chances in that are small too though.
His chances are very small but they are greater than zero if you ask me, there are a few scenarios where I could see he makes it in.
 
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