I'm Losing to Noobs Again

[TheUnknownMartin]

And by noobs, I mean those who spam, those who don't know how tech, those who roll, those who don't really read, but throw out attacks even when I'm not near them...

I used to be able to punish them and read them, but for some reason, for the last 2 weeks, it seems I just can't do it anymore. I'm getting really frustrated, as it seems that my skill has dimmed down ever since I took a 2 day break before coming back to it.

(Also, I'm for some reason having trouble with Falco, Bowser, Fox, Game & Watch, and MewTwo for no reason. It just happened)

 

[Planty]

Well for one you're gonna wanna play less characters..... against most low level players that you seem to be describing, the best option is to just shield. They tend to love smash attacks. While in shield, just look for habits. It might also help if you play a character with strong punish game for when you do get a read, such as ganondorf. Lower level players really don't understand how to exploit Ganondorf's weaknesses.

This is of course assuming that you're not a low level player yourself......

ANDDDD just so you know this thread will likely be shut down or moved or something.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

Everyone goes through funks. Just take a break and then go back at it

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

This is of course assuming that you're not a low level player yourself......

Though I don't think myself as a low level player, but I'm no where near pro. I just started to fall for tricks again, even when I try to read.

Everyone goes through funks. Just take a break and then go back at it

I did... it actually started this whole problem, oddly enough. Should I take a longer break, or something?

 

[|RK|]

In the other thing I do, I've learned that once you reach a certain level, going up against newcomers may become more difficult. This is because the more you learn is the more you try to do against them. But you don't need to do anything fancy... just hit them.

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

In the other thing I do, I've learned that once you reach a certain level, going up against newcomers may become more difficult. This is because the more you learn is the more you try to do against them. But you don't need to do anything fancy... just hit them.

I guess so. (I forgot that Mang0 said something similar.) As for the fancy stuff, you mean like dance trotting and perfect pivots?

 

[|RK|]

I guess so. (I forgot that Mang0 said something similar.) As for the fancy stuff, you mean like dance trotting and perfect pivots?

A little bit of that and certain reads, too. Remember that new people will do the same thing over and over even if it doesn't work. Their spacing will be off, etc. No need to get flustered trying to read someone as if you're playing a pro, no need to expect a DI mixup, etc.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

Though I don't think myself as a low level player, but I'm no where near pro. I just started to fall for tricks again, even when I try to read.

I did... it actually started this whole problem, oddly enough. Should I take a longer break, or something?

If a break doesn't help, then all you can do is work through it. You'll get out of the funk eventually

 

[sjb.dario]

I personally still lose to noobs myself (not consistently, but it happens). From what I can tell, you seem to be in the stage where you perform better against higher-level players than against noobs. If this is the stage you are in, then I believe you are in the stage where you're about to become a good smash player. It strange how it works, but there is a stage in the improvement progress where you feel like you've lost skill because you end up losing to lower-level players. In my opinion, this happens because at this point you've absorbed so much knowledge, that your mind is still in the process of putting the pieces together. Once time passes, you should be able to kick butt again, except with more efficiency.

 

[PerryEllis]

Noobs can get the better of you if they master the noob techniques. A link player does about 3 things: shoot arrow till you move, then boomerangs if you get close, and then smash up or down if you dodge through any of it to get to his camping noob self.
(I strictly use an honorable character.)

 

[Shadow_13]

Noobs can get the better of you if they master the noob techniques. A link player does about 3 things: shoot arrow till you move, then boomerangs if you get close, and then smash up or down if you dodge through any of it to get to his camping noob self.
(I strictly use an honorable character.)

As a Link main, I find this comment hilarious just because of everyone I know that mains Link, fights this way. They don't consider themselves great, but it's just something that's easy.

Also, this is probably the most supportive thread I have seen on this site. Yeah, TheUnknownMartin, I would just work through it. My little brother is extremely good at this game and his biggest struggle is noob players. He has a good fight with me and I win tournemants, but when he comes across someone playing as maybe DK and he plays Villager, Bowser, Sonic or G&W, he might lose to someone who does "Forward Smash to victory" kind of stuff.

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

Thanks for all the help guys. Seems that better the class doesn't mean better the results from your last class, like in Highschool. I really appreciate it. (Also, F For Glory, I'm permanently on Anther's Ladder (unless at tourneys or friends

 

[HybridFlames]

Something that ive learned is the person with the most skill doesnt always wins
ive hit a wall recently im getting over it but ill get spammed left and right i see what they're doing and in my head ik what i have to do but time and time again ill lose most of the time applying pressure on spammers doesnt work since all they do is one command i wouldnt worry to much just try to sike the other player mind games make them guess what your going to do and adjust your play to what their doing.
Im pretty chill but i lose my temper to spammers a lot and it usually costs me the match (im getting over it lol)
my main advice is to find their habits stay calm gain some momentum and once the noobs are playing your game youve already won

 

[NotAnAdmin]

The thing is you're trying "thinking" competitively, get that out of your mind.
You're going into the match with the expectation of yourself playing another competitive player or the expectation that at least they won't do anything too out of the ordinary. When they throw you for the loop, (like most lower level players will) most players have issues trying to play at their level.

I almost had this issue myself just about an hour ago, I was playing with one of the guys I met at work who says he's trying to get better, so we met, up. He played a Capt, and kept catching me with Raptor Boosts. Just think about what you're doing wrong and keep your play simple. Remember what your character's strengths are.

Also, for the love of jesus stop playing half of the cast, focus on the few of the characters that work for your playstyle. It's only going to throw you off in the long run.

 

[Shadow_13]

I think I will second that. You should probably cut at least half of your characters out. A lot of people will play most of the cast (I do), but most of them are for fun. Seriously bro, maybe go down to 5 characters.

For Example:
My main -
Secondaries -
Tertiary -

I will admit I'm picking up Roy, but I plan to replace Fox. Even 5 may be pushing it, but it is a good start!

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

I actually only use 6 characters now . Toon Link is likely to replaced by Rosalina now. (In fact, I think Rosa might be a new main character soon, since I'm getting frustrated with my low tiers right now). I'll update my sig.

 

[Planty]

@ TheUnknownMartin Just gonna warn you that you're gonna need to put in a lot of work with Rosalina and play her nearly all the time, even in friendlies, if you want to get past a FG level. She's nowhere near as straightforward as people make her out to be.

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

@ TheUnknownMartin Just gonna warn you that you're gonna need to put in a lot of work with Rosalina and play her nearly all the time, even in friendlies, if you want to get past a FG level. She's nowhere near as straightforward as people make her out to be.

Of coarse. I'm scared that I'll have to drop out my Lucina, Jiggly, and Yoshi to improve my Rosa.

 

[Hippieslayer]

its good to have played all characters in the game enough to have a basic grasp on how playing them feels and what their gameplan is from the players perspective

but you should focus on just a few characters

moreover, these people you call noobs, they might be better than you at some important things, namely reading as well as having focused on a select few characters; dont see how throwing out moves that aren't gonna hit is necessarily bad so long as its safe, it can still be conditioning as well as distracting

you can be pretty damn good even with some bad habits and lack of tech skill

 

[Watchful_Eye]

A little bit of that and certain reads, too. Remember that new people will do the same thing over and over even if it doesn't work. Their spacing will be off, etc. No need to get flustered trying to read someone as if you're playing a pro, no need to expect a DI mixup, etc.

I think this is a more wrong than right statement. When you are used to play good players and then meet a bad player, it might happen that you mess up.

But overall, a really good player can do just the same to you. When the opponent sees that you are bad in punishing rolls or projectles, there is not reason not to spam rolls and projectiles. Usually a good player is not tough enough to pull such stuff out in a tournament, but in fact he just could, since it is obviously not hard to play this way. And good players can spam even better, since they can space better and they could mix up when they wanted.

Adaptation is always a core part of this game. If you stop learning to punish "simple tricks", because good people do not use them usually, you might fall for one who realises that and uses that against you.

 

[|RK|]

I think this is a more wrong than right statement. When you are used to play good players and then meet a bad player, it might happen that you mess up.

But overall, a really good player can do just the same to you. When the opponent sees that you are bad in punishing rolls or projectles, there is not reason not to spam rolls and projectiles. Usually a good player is not tough enough to pull such stuff out in a tournament, but in fact he just could, since it is obviously not hard to play this way. And good players can spam even better, since they can space better and they could mix up when they wanted.

Adaptation is always a core part of this game. If you stop learning to punish "simple tricks", because good people do not use them usually, you might fall for one who realises that and uses that against you.

No one said not to punish. Just don't expect the same tricks a pro would do. You make the wrong punishes on the wrong people and you're screwed either way.

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

I think this is a more wrong than right statement. When you are used to play good players and then meet a bad player, it might happen that you mess up.

But overall, a really good player can do just the same to you. When the opponent sees that you are bad in punishing rolls or projectles, there is not reason not to spam rolls and projectiles. Usually a good player is not tough enough to pull such stuff out in a tournament, but in fact he just could, since it is obviously not hard to play this way. And good players can spam even better, since they can space better and they could mix up when they wanted.

Adaptation is always a core part of this game. If you stop learning to punish "simple tricks", because good people do not use them usually, you might fall for one who realises that and uses that against you.

So I guess I haven't improved much. Maybe I stopped doing my bad habits, but now I'm falling for the bad habits Dang, this game is literally breaking me apart. I almost broke my Controller a while ago before learning RosaLuma (I don't think I can handle Rosa either. She's just not that fun to play with.) Guess I'm the noob here ._.

Then again, when I do lose a stock embarrassingly, I get anxious for the kill to even up (throwing out smash moves. Found this out a hour ago). And once I lose horrendously, I get angery, like bad. I probably should stop playing for a while. Soon, this anger will get the best of me. :/

 

[Shadow_13]

I almost broke my Controller a while ago before learning RosaLuma (I don't think I can handle Rosa either. She's just not that fun to play with.) Guess I'm the noob here ._.

Don't worry bro. And hey, I'm with you on the Rosalina thing. I personally don't find her that fun. About 4 of the top 6 I don't find fun (But almost the whole cast in this game are fantastic). I was going to make ZSS one of my mains and Sheik before the game came out, but when I played them, they just didn't feel good. I almost wanted to drop Link because of how awkward he felt too, but my love for the character and the first two patches REALLY helped.

Don't pick a character based on tiers. I tried that with Melee and ended up hating the game for a long time. I'll play it now, but only as Link and Samus. But, look at people like aMSa. He took Yoshi from the bottom of Melee to the middle because he made a "bad character" into a decent one. Out of your mains, Yoshi is your "best" character. If you REALLY want to play to the tiers, then pick a character from the "top 25". They are pretty much all always viable. I'd be more than happy to help you out with about any character. And if you do it right, Lucina and Little Mac can be horribly scary. They just don't deal with the top 5 very well. They can do just fine against the rest of the cast even though they are considered "sub-par".[/quote]

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

Don't worry bro. And hey, I'm with you on the Rosalina thing. I personally don't find her that fun. About 4 of the top 6 I don't find fun (But almost the whole cast in this game are fantastic). I was going to make ZSS one of my mains and Sheik before the game came out, but when I played them, they just didn't feel good. I almost wanted to drop Link because of how awkward he felt too, but my love for the character and the first two patches REALLY helped.

Don't pick a character based on tiers. I tried that with Melee and ended up hating the game for a long time. I'll play it now, but only as Link and Samus. But, look at people like aMSa. He took Yoshi from the bottom of Melee to the middle because he made a "bad character" into a decent one. Out of your mains, Yoshi is your "best" character. If you REALLY want to play to the tiers, then pick a character from the "top 25". They are pretty much all always viable. I'd be more than happy to help you out with about any character. And if you do it right, Lucina and Little Mac can be horribly scary. They just don't deal with the top 5 very well. They can do just fine against the rest of the cast even though they are considered "sub-par".

[/quote]

Thanks man. I might just use Rosa as a counterpick. I think I just developed too much with Lucina for me to drop her out (also, she's my bae in FE Awakening). So what should I do to make sure I'm up with the competition in big tourneys and also be able to get used to spammers?

 

[Shadow_13]

As far as being up with the competition, almost any character can do that. VERY FEW really can't be all around characters (I'm looking at you Sakurai. Buff Samus!) Also Charizard isn't too great for many matchups. As far as spammers go, characters like Fox, Falco (Dispatches Toon Link with ease), ROB, Rosalina, they all do fantastic. Yoshi's egg is also one of the most prioritized projectiles. Lucario does just fine with spammers due to his awesome aura sphere and the slow damage build up is asking for an early KO for whoever is spamming. You can always spam back with Link or Toon Link, although I advise not to do that, but for personal reasons. I believe Link is better up close and aggressive, but I digress. Anyone who can manuever with a projectile that is not exactly horizontally linear does great against spammers. Pac-Man is also a favorite. He is hard to use, but man is he fun to learn!

 

[Quarium]

Sometimes to beat scrubby tactics you should just do some of your own too. Adaptation is part of what being a smash player is, it sounds like you are in a point where you are starting to refine your playstyle (The point where what you do works again players that are also trying to go for the most optimal or sensical approaches but lower level playing or "out of place" desicion making by your opponent throws you off.) but you still haven't fully gotten the hang of it. Just give it time and keep working on adapting and understanding the habits of others, you will reach a point where you can most likely adapt to any situation! I surely went through the same too but atm I have enough experience that dumb stuff doesn't usually work agaisnt me anymore.

 

[pokelogan89]

One way that I've developed against spammy noobs (Links mainly) is Fox. Spam lasers/shine until they are forced to approach. Then skill takes into play and you should have the upper hand. Hope it helps.

 

[Big Blue]

Just pace yourself for every match, everyone plays differently so you need to adapt to both their style and their skill, including the noobs. But I wouldn't stress too much about it, we all have our bad days. Just try to have fun and you'll be back into it in no time.

 

[Arle Nadja]

Even good players feel the strain and frustration of facing the mighty yolo fsmash sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwAC9phaCIo&t=14m55s

My man AceStarThe3rd puts it pretty well here.

 

[TempestSurge]

Whoa was actually relatively surprised by how nice and calm this thread is given the nature of the topic lol. It's great not seeing the typical 'scrub' or 'git gud' comments.

I've actually experienced something similar today. My first round of FG I went like several rounds against this person's Link. And man was that Link crazy, in a good way! He wasn't one of those Links who rolled/spammed/camped so he was extremely unpredictable and he'd win a match then me it was just back and forth. I feel like I was in that room with him for two hours it seems. I've never had so much fun against a Link.

Then after he leaves, I get matched up with ironically another Link. And this was one of those flowchart Links. Arrow, boomerang, roll to the other side of the stage when you get near etc. Yet I was so used to that earlier Link's fast paced play style and over the top combos that I would approach this Link with that same crazy mindset and end up getting hit by a simple forward smash. Another approach, up smash punish! The other Link I fought didn't throw out smashes so willy nilly so I kind of just assumed that this Link would play on a similar level.

It's actually funny now that I think back on it. The second Link was 'easier' in that he wasn't as active as the first Link yet I was having a harder time against him in the beginning cause I was still in the mindset of that higher level play and being so fancy, as someone brought out, that I should have just hit him lol.

Though I do run into that 'funk' period where I've gone completely auto pilot and falling for things that I know I normally wouldn't and not adapting to my opponent's play style at all, so that's when I know it's time for me to take a break. I always try to make sure I never go a day without playing Smash, just so that I don't get rusty.

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

Whoa was actually relatively surprised by how nice and calm this thread is given the nature of the topic lol. It's great not seeing the typical 'scrub' or 'git gud' comments.

I've actually experienced something similar today. My first round of FG I went like several rounds against this person's Link. And man was that Link crazy, in a good way! He wasn't one of those Links who rolled/spammed/camped so he was extremely unpredictable and he'd win a match then me it was just back and forth. I feel like I was in that room with him for two hours it seems. I've never had so much fun against a Link.

Then after he leaves, I get matched up with ironically another Link. And this was one of those flowchart Links. Arrow, boomerang, roll to the other side of the stage when you get near etc. Yet I was so used to that earlier Link's fast paced play style and over the top combos that I would approach this Link with that same crazy mindset and end up getting hit by a simple forward smash. Another approach, up smash punish! The other Link I fought didn't throw out smashes so willy nilly so I kind of just assumed that this Link would play on a similar level.

It's actually funny now that I think back on it. The second Link was 'easier' in that he wasn't as active as the first Link yet I was having a harder time against him in the beginning cause I was still in the mindset of that higher level play and being so fancy, as someone brought out, that I should have just hit him lol.

Though I do run into that 'funk' period where I've gone completely auto pilot and falling for things that I know I normally wouldn't and not adapting to my opponent's play style at all, so that's when I know it's time for me to take a break. I always try to make sure I never go a day without playing Smash, just so that I don't get rusty.

Man, that's lucky. (Finding a great link, anyway.) I guess my best way to overcome the spamming is to remember that that's there way of playing. I started to think of it as my Bboying Mindset. "I show my moves, then you show yours." Instead of: "I'll beat your moves." I guess mindsets makes the better of you.