I'm back. : P And brings some new stuff about Sonic too.

[DarkKnight077]

Yep yep DK has come back and well I've been playing Melee a lot lately and found some things too. I'll explain right now. Since well I am on.

1. You can sweetspot with the Dair, yep I've actually done it when I use the spring and does it really nicely. However, I'm pretty sure this is only when you cancel it. But still it's a nice thing to have.
How this helps: Well seeing that most Sonics use the Spring and the Dair together. Well I know noticed you can sweetspot. This helps well you recovery isn't as predictable with the B-Specials and maybe gives you an advantage. Now the problem is probably timing since this probably only works when it cancels...However I think it's good idea to use once in a while.

2. About the Fair thing well....It's really random that's really I can say. :[ Sorry no vids. ;-;
Well I've noticed a few things. It doesn't work on small projectiles, I've tried it only once and once only and was able deflected Samus's missile but not her small charge blast. So yea not much help here.

3. Ike really owns Sonic, seriously he does even do Sonic owns in speed...well that's about it really, Ike just owns him really badly.
How this sucks: Well let's just say Ike out ranges Sonic, out powers him, has that **** super armor, can kill Sonic at very low percent and overall well just owns him. Although I have found that D-throw is useful and the Spin attacks do throw him off there really nothing much esle.

4. Sonic Dittos are zzzzzzz....Seriously they are. Just well out..Sonic him.
Seriously they are, they take too long. x.x; I would advise you not to do it because it's well not fun...

5. Sonic is really good against Fox, really good.
How this is good: Well seeing as Fox kind of got nerfed. Well it's a good thing Sonic is good facing Fox, not only Fox's ariels are a bit worse than Sonic but his power is a bit downgraded. But his shine is still deadly. Now Sonic can owns him in the Air and even on the ground. Just remember to be careful of the lasers. You can do this by Down-Bing to get away from them and then possibly Fair out of it. Fox's only advantage is really Power and the shine. Other than Sonic really is good.

6. Uthrow to Uair works nicely. And remember to taunt. : D

 

[Spin Dashie]

Dont mean to be rude but, how is this suppose to help? What you forgot to come back with is evidence for what you're posting and any written explanations that we can use to try any of this stuff out ourselves.

"Sonic Dittos are zzzzz..." Ill make sure to remember that next time I play another Sonic.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Dont mean to be rude but, how is this suppose to help? What you forgot to come back with is evidence for what you're posting and any written explanations that we can use to try any of this stuff out ourselves.

"Sonic Dittos are zzzzz..." Ill make sure to remember that next time I play another Sonic.

Well as I said, you can sweetspot with the Dair that way you won't just just Dair to the ground below. I have a habit with Sonic just to Dair right when I use the spring and sometimes I miss the cancel. But since now I know you can sweetspot with the Dair you can use this to your advantage because.

1. Your recovery is much more unpredictable.
2. You won't need to rely on the B-specials a lot.

I'll explain a bit more later right now I am hungry. x.x;

 

[Aftermath]

The dair only lasts for ~max spring height. After that, the move is over and you can do anything, you just have lots of falling speed. So if you spring from stage height or more, as long as you wait till the peak of the spring jump, you can dair and catch the edge. Doing this FROM the stage into a reverse dair grab is even more tricky and nets you a free 4% or something if you find a time to hit with the spring. Don't try online.

Other than that, nothing worth commenting on.

 

[FrostByte]

3. Ike really owns Sonic

What?

D-throw is useful and the Spin attacks do throw him off there really nothing much esle.

What?

5. Sonic is really good against Fox, really good.

What?

Now Sonic can owns him in the Air and even on the ground.

What?


The reasons you gave behind these are incomplete or invalid, I won't go through them at the moment.

 

[Soloman]

uh... outranges? thast why u have shield for and fast rolls to punish whiffed attacks which ike has alot of.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Yeah it's kind of the opposite.....
Fox owns Sonic, Sonic owns Ike.

 

[Browny]

i dont think sonic has a bad matchup vs fox. falco and wolf are a completely different story, but fox has never given me any troubles.

 

[FrostByte]

- Fox outprioritises Sonic on about all of his opposite aerials (Fox's dair goes about even with Sonic's uair).
- Fox's Smashes come out quicker than Sonic's and have more power than Sonic's.
- Fox's combos do more damage than Sonic's
- Almost as fast as Sonic, able to punish Sonic's laggy attacks with a super fast KO move.
- Hardest Spacie to gimp.
- His backdoor to utilt puts a lot of pressure on anything without super armor.
- He can combo into KO attacks with dair, His Dsmash is unbelievably fast.
- Sonic wishes he had just one of Fox's attacks. Upsmash? Uair? Dair? Sonic would be ownage with one of these

Not to say that Sonic doesn't have any advantages in this matchup, but there are so few it's unbelieveable. He can escape Fox's combos better than any other character in the game, I'll give him that. He can run away so he doesn't get killed so hard.

 

[Shadow5YA]

1.) Unless the sweetspot does significantly more knockback and and damage, I couldn't care less. Unless you can show proof or have another player that can attest to this and do it himself as well, I'm going to assume you don't know what a sweetspot is and just found the difference between a direct hit and a graze, or you just found out that you don't need the spring to autocancel the dair. It also doesn't matter how unpredictable the dair will make his recovery when he has to fall about the same distance he gains from his upB. You gain no altitude from dair to upB.

2.) You need to have more than just one example to prove that it's random. For example, everyone had try everything with tripping to disprove that you can control it and that it is random. For the f-air, there are too many factors that you fail to control. For example, which part of the f-air did you hit the projectile with? The front? Sonic's entire body? The beginning? The last hit? Do you know if Samus's missile has the same priority as her charge shot? You need to be more specific if you want people to believe you.

3.) The way you put it, it just seems like the player himself beat and you, who is at the same level as him, and it just happened that Ike was more user-friendly. Ike's aerial's may have more power and range, bit all of them are slow, including his nair(well, compared to everyone else's nairs). Sonic's aerials have minimal startup lag (except for bair), and you should be able to hit Ike before he can hit you. Ike's tilts and smashes are even slower, and you shouldn't get hit by them unless you charged right into it. As for Ike's SAF, they are only present in his Eruption and Aether, where one is show and laggy while the other is easily avoidable, especially with Sonic. Both of those specials would and should only be used sparingly for any reasonable Ike player, so the SAF shouldn't get you too often unless he knew you were coming.

4.) Don't state your opinion as a fact. In my opinion, Sonic dittos are fun to watch, especially when it's between two skilled Sonics. It would be extremely fast paced, where neither are camping and saying in one place for even a second. Advising us to outSonic someone in a Sonic ditto not only is vague, but it is common sense for any ditto match. In a Fox ditto, you have to outFox your opponent, in a Marth ditto, you have to outMarth him, etc.

5.) Fox may have been nerfed from Melee, but he's still one of the best comboers next to Marth. Fox's laser poses a problem for Sonic, because he's in the light class and an be killed at lower percents. All of Fox's smashes are faster and stronger than Sonic's. Fox's aerials out-prioritize all of Sonic's, and they all have more range than Sonic's. Saying Fox's power and shine are his only advantages mean that the Fox player isn't doing it right.

6.) Uthrow to uair is highly predictable and easily countered because of the low priority on the uair. This is one of the cases where Ike can easily abuse the SAFs you despise so much with Eruption. Hell, he doesn't even need Eruption. He could nair or dair and would still outprioritize Sonic's uair.

 

[Tenki]

Shadow, I disagree with your #1:

1) I think he meant sweetspot the ledge [autograb] when recovering. He's talking about recovery in his original post, so I doubt he meant some kind of 'sweetspot' attack/meteor, but most likely 'sweetspotting' the ledge. It makes more sense to me reading it that way, anyway.

 

[DarkKnight077]

I know what Sweetspotting is.....Don't assume.

Actually Tenki is right what I meant.

Actually in the second. I still have no idea how it happened. I ask my friend "Shoot a missile". He did and I used the Fair instantly. However I did notice somethings which I forgot to mention. It looks like at the last part when he does the Fair makes the projectile go back.

However I am not like 100% positive since I asked him to shoot at me like three times. And I was able only to deflect them back one out of the three.

Also I mean Up B and the Dair. You can sweetspot the ledge...meaning auto grab. Sonic can't when you use the Up-B unless you are directly below the stage. Meaning you are parallel with the ledge.

I never stated my opinion as fact, I just find them boring.

And..I like facing Foxes. I don't like Facing Ike, I can't beat a good Ike.

 

[MarKO X]

Sonic vs. Ike... the winner of the match is the one who controls the flow of the match. Yes, Ike outprioritized Ike and outranges Ike. But have you seen how slow Ike is? You either rush in with all of your possible speed or don't rush at all, wait for Ike to a laggy *** move, then punish Ike for doing it.

Sonic vs. Fox... well, I thought that Sonic would be my anti-fox... I was wrong, but not totally.
Once again, Sonic is outprioritized (I'm betting that Sonic has the worst priority in the game?) but you know how you beat Fox? RUN!!! This isn't something that's absolute fact, but Fox players know they're fast, so if you use your speed, you'll throw them off. One thing about Fox is that he has, like, no lag. This is what makes my matchups with Fox a pain because I love using Sonic to punish the disadvantage of lag.