Social "I'm a Black Belt, I have no fatigue" - Sonic Discussion Thread

[SonicMario]

Anyone else down for Shadow being an echo fighter of Sonic? Especially Knuckles is apparently the Sonic AT rep now instead of Shadow.

If it's the only way Sonic will recieve a 2nd rep at this point, then sure. I'll accept Shadow as long as he is indeed an echo.

But I'm still personally pulling for Tails, he can't be an echo simply because of his major feature of his flight ability. Shadow may also have his things that would disappoint people he's unable to perform if he's an echo, but he's been a clone of Sonic in a few games (Adventure 2 and Sonic Forces in particular) so it wouldn't be too farfetched. I would hope if there's an option for an at least semi-unique 2nd rep of Sonic. They'd get Tails.

That said I am definitely thinking Shadow is the most likely just because of the echo fighter thing. And I'm not sure they allow Sonic to get more then 2 even if one is just an echo. But if there is room for 3, then I'd be highly optimistic about Tails.

Bummer for the Knuckles fans though.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Anyone else down for Shadow being an echo fighter of Sonic? Especially Knuckles is apparently the Sonic AT rep now instead of Shadow.

I actually want Tails. We don't need both Sonic characters to be hedgehogs, right? And besides this is a thread about Sonic as a veteran. Shadow's thread should be somewhere in the newcomer boards.

 

[magiciandude]

I actually want Tails. We don't need both Sonic characters to be hedgehogs, right? And besides this is a thread about Sonic as a veteran. Shadow's thread should be somewhere in the newcomer boards.

Message boards about echo fighters are merged with the original character though.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Message boards about echo fighters are merged with the original character though.

Message boards with confirmed Echo Fighters? Yes. Character support threads? No. Here's Shadow's support thread.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Are we getting a new stage for Sonic?

 

[SonicMario]

Are we getting a new stage for Sonic?

We only know Green Hill Zone (The same one from Brawl) is back. So far Windy Hill has not shown up yet. And no sign of a new stage either.

 

[Kain6th]

you're too slowwww

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'd like to see Studiopolis Zone from Sonic Mania, personally.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I would want to see Chemical Plant Zone. Or maybe Seaside Hill? I'm expecting to see Windy Hill based on how many Past Stages were confirmed and the "Everyone is Here" tagline possibly extending to stages. Anyway, do you think they may have fixed the Homing Attack so that two Sonics don't Star KO themselves in a Homing Joust?

 

[Grizzexploder]

Sonic has a new dash attack
And he can't cheese/shield cancel Spin Charge/Dash anymore

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I'm honestly excited for Sonic looking to be more aggressively focused since I couldn't stand how he played in Brawl or Smash 4, which is sad considering how much of a Sonic nut I am, hope this breaks the trend.

 

[Altais]

58 65 characters has to be a nightmare to balance, and people want even *more*?

^Agree 100%. At this point, I'll be surprised if we get more than 2 newcomers whom aren't Echo Fighters.

As I've said before, to avoid drama, I think every third-party franchise should have only one character. Echo or no, if Shadow got in, then people would demand another Mega Man character, and so on. If he returns as an Assist Trophy, I think it would be cool if he still used Chaos Control on everyone--only this time it works similarly to Bayonetta's Witch Time. After using Chaos Control, he teleports near each enemy, kicking them with his air shoes--and of course, the player can damage them as well.

For Sonic's stage(s), I'm hoping they bring a mostly fresh set of tracks this time, instead of reusing previous ones. I dare say, I'm sick and tired of hearing Sonic Heroes, Seven Rings, and whatnot. Quite frankly, I don't think Sonic Forces deserves a stage, given how mediocre it was. However, it did have a few epic songs. I especially like Park Avenue. It's cheesy, but in a good way.

 

[ShadowLink84]

from what ie read, apparently his dash attack can possibly kill?

 

[SonicMario]

Putting my 3,000th post here. As someone who's very first internet community joined was this site and quickly jumping onto the Sonic for Brawl hype train. It's so wonderful to have that #1 Dream having reached so long ago and Sonic has remained a mainstay ever since. There are certainly some things that many of us could say we wish could of done differently. LIke what if Sega had not initially denied permission to use Sonic and thus Sonic getting rushed in and thus for much his moveset seemed lazy. Though you could argue that at least some of what Sakurai envisioned for Sonic back when he was in the project plan I imagine still made it in even if they had to add Sonic late. Rushing him in also probably meant much less effort put into his content with only one remix, an Assist Trophy that was basically a clone of the Timer item just without the chance of backfiring, and more. But to be honest, I would not trade it for anything even if it meant changing the timeline that Sonic got a full-fledged focus like Megaman did getting into Smash 4. Because one of the happiest days of my life was October 10th, 2007 when I woke up to news that Sonic was going to be in Smash Bros.

It's also of course super great that he returned in Smash 4 amidst some doubts about 3rd Party characters being unable to return for subsequent entries. Once again, October shined through for Sonic in Smash just 9 days before it turned into 6 years since Sonic was announced for Brawl. His moveset staying generally the same it was in Brawl but souped up to where he was pretty good. I also think the amount of content improved for Sonic in Smash 4 albeit currently maybe could of still used more. As the one remix from Brawl was still the only one but they did add some more tunes that Sonic fans love such as Escape from the City and Knight to the Wind as vocal songs to smash to. It's just overall amazing that Sega and Nintendo have become buddies to this point.

And with Ultimate on the horizon, Sonic will even further remain a big part of Smash. Looking to be worked even further then he was before so maybe we get something closer to what Sonic may have been like had he been in Brawl from the original project plan for Brawl and then some. We don't know alot yet, but content may also get an improvement. Even getting a new Assist Trophy with Knuckles. And there are even hopes of a 2nd character from the franchise to join the fight. It would be cool, I just don't exactly have the highest confidence in it right now. And see it only happening with either an Echo fighter (Most likely Shadow if that happens) or DLC (Of which I would put my hopes up for Tails, literally the only character that would probably usurp Sonic for my most used in a Smash game. But I don't expect to get my 2nd #1 wanted newcomer in a game. I'd feel kind of greedy otherwise). But even if Sonic is alone once again, that's just fine. Cause that's my dream inclusion having been in the series for nearly 11 years and counting. I am certainly excited to once again play the heck out of Sonic more then any other character again for the 3rd (Or 4th of you're counting the 3DS Smash) time ^^

 

[Sean Wheeler]

During the 90's when Sega was Nintendo's biggest competitor, would anyone believe that Sonic would be in three Super Smash Bros games in a row?

 

[MainJPW]

During the 90's when Sega was Nintendo's biggest competitor, would anyone believe that Sonic would be in three Super Smash Bros games in a row?

Does anyone feel a strange sense of pride from that? Sonic has been in more Smash games than any other 3rd party fighter.

That is something to behold.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Does anyone feel a strange sense of pride from that? Sonic has been in more Smash games than any other 3rd party fighter.

That is something to behold.

Yeah, that is something to behold. Snake's been cut from Smash 4, making Sonic the only third-party veteran in that game while Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta were introduced as newcomers in Smash 4. And before they anounced "Everyone is here," Sonic was the one third-party character that everyone thought was guaranteed for the next Super Smash Bros game and would never get cut.

 

[War Anvil]

Yep, I always knew this dude was worthy of living amongst Nintendo's greats since Brawl! Even through all the ups and downs Sonic may have been pushed through over the years, it goes to show how well Sonic has it as a character, not just as a Smash fighter.

Now if only Sega could treat some of their other classic franchises a lot better...

Sonic has a new dash attack

And he can't cheese/shield cancel Spin Charge/Dash anymore

Yeah, I can tell Sakurai wants to push more committed, aggressive play for Sonic mains while not rewarding spam too much.

 

[infomon]

Tails would actually be a super legit Echo of Sonic. Consider the Tails from Sonic 2... he does everything Sonic does, but worse.

 

[SonicMario]

Tails would actually be a super legit Echo of Sonic. Consider the Tails from Sonic 2... he does everything Sonic does, but worse.

Yeah, but that's literally the only case in the series where Tails is a complete clone of Sonic. If Tails was an echo, it'd be much worse then Shadow only being an Echo. You include a character well-known and iconic for their two-tails that allows them to fly... but his moveset doesn't use it at all? At least if Shadow made it in as an echo, a Chaos power could be his final Smash to make up for the lack of that in his moveset.

Not to mention Tails is shorter then Sonic, and there's some moves in Sonic's moveset that wouldn't work at all for Tails (Ex: Up throw, even if you change it so that his Tails spike somebody instead of Sonic's back that's a pretty significant animation change)

 

[infomon]

yeah let's be real, Tails would have been wicked as Sonic's up-B. I'd take that over spring even if it's bad like duck hunt's lol

 

[Mastermiine]

Would anyone be mad if Sonic had four reps?

1. Sonic
2. Shadow
3. Tails
4. Dr. Eggman

these 4 are a must for the Sonic franchise.

 

[SonicMario]

Would anyone be mad if Sonic had four reps?

1. Sonic
2. Shadow
3. Tails
4. Dr. Eggman

these 4 are a must for the Sonic franchise.

I mean, most of us here should be Sonic fans. So of course we'ld love it. But the salt from non-Sonic fans and especially Nintendo purists would be maddening. Would probably be worse then when Fire Emblem got 6 characters in Smash 4.

The absolute best case scenario for Sonic representation getting bigger is 3. Shadow as an Echo Fighter and Tails as DLC. But I have a hard time thinking that will happen. I think either we get Sonic alone again, Shadow as an echo, or Tails as DLC.

 

[Mastermiine]

I mean, most of us here should be Sonic fans. So of course we'ld love it. But the salt from non-Sonic fans and especially Nintendo purists would be maddening. Would probably be worse then when Fire Emblem got 6 characters in Smash 4.

The absolute best case scenario for Sonic representation getting bigger is 3. Shadow as an Echo Fighter and Tails as DLC. But I have a hard time thinking that will happen. I think either we get Sonic alone again, Shadow as an echo, or Tails as DLC.

I want Shadow as a must. I remember watching brawl mods and wanting Shadow in the game. I rather not him as an echo but if that's the only way then I will take it.

However, I rather have Dr. Eggman over Tails.

 

[SonicMario]

I want Shadow as a must. I remember watching brawl mods and wanting Shadow in the game. I rather not him as an echo but if that's the only way then I will take it.

However, I rather have Dr. Eggman over Tails.

Tails is my most wanted out of the choices for a 2nd rep. He's just my favorite Sonic character plus having Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails would be great to have possible in Smash.

I get the sentiment about Eggman over Tails. Eggman has always been there since the first game, he's not one of Sonic's "annoying friends", more moveset potential, etc. but I still feel Tails is a more natural fit personally. Of all the Sonic characters that could get in over Tails though I suppose I'd be the most alright with Eggman, followed by Shadow but only if he is an echo. (Because that would just be Sakurai telling me he'd rather not put too much effort on a 2nd rep to a 3rd party franchise. So Tails was never feasible but he doesn't cater to the demands of Shadow fans at the same time wanting him to do his chaos powers everywhere. But Shadow shouldn't get in any other way, and I say that as someone who's favorite game of the series is still Adventure 2.)

 

[Mastermiine]

Tails is my most wanted out of the choices for a 2nd rep. He's just my favorite Sonic character plus having Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails would be great to have possible in Smash.

I get the sentiment about Eggman over Tails. Eggman has always been there since the first game, he's not one of Sonic's "annoying friends", more moveset potential, etc. but I still feel Tails is a more natural fit personally. Of all the Sonic characters that could get in over Tails though I suppose I'd be the most alright with Eggman, followed by Shadow but only if he is an echo. (Because that would just be Sakurai telling me he'd rather not put too much effort on a 2nd rep to a 3rd party franchise. So Tails was never feasible but he doesn't cater to the demands of Shadow fans at the same time wanting him to do his chaos powers everywhere. But Shadow shouldn't get in any other way, and I say that as someone who's favorite game of the series is still Adventure 2.)

Tails is my most wanted out of the choices for a 2nd rep. He's just my favorite Sonic character plus having Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails would be great to have possible in Smash.

I get the sentiment about Eggman over Tails. Eggman has always been there since the first game, he's not one of Sonic's "annoying friends", more moveset potential, etc. but I still feel Tails is a more natural fit personally. Of all the Sonic characters that could get in over Tails though I suppose I'd be the most alright with Eggman, followed by Shadow but only if he is an echo. (Because that would just be Sakurai telling me he'd rather not put too much effort on a 2nd rep to a 3rd party franchise. So Tails was never feasible but he doesn't cater to the demands of Shadow fans at the same time wanting him to do his chaos powers everywhere. But Shadow shouldn't get in any other way, and I say that as someone who's favorite game of the series is still Adventure 2.)

The reason why I want Eggman over Tails is that I want more villains in the game. Smash is for sure lacking in villains. Tails is number 4 on the sonic reps I want in. But having four sonic reps is a lot. I would be happy with Eggman as a boss battle also.

 

[Putuk]

Would anyone be mad if Sonic had four reps?

1. Sonic
2. Shadow
3. Tails
4. Dr. Eggman

these 4 are a must for the Sonic franchise.

Many would. A lot of people outside of the fandom view the series as an embarrassment to video games.
I've seen a few people who had no nostalgia or any form of connection to the series play SA1 and 2, they generally don't get what they're supposed to do and proclaim the games to be bad after falling off the ledge as a result of spamming the homing attack. I've heard people describing bad music in video games as "imagine a vocal track from a Sonic game". A housemate of mine unironically told me Sonic was never good.

Hate to say it, but most people don't view this series favorably. Mania DID improve its standing notably, but only for the games with the "Classic" branding. "Modern" is still considered "cringey" and many want that branch of the series to die (personally, I hate how it needs to be seperated like that).


All this negativity aside, I think I'd prefer Blaze as a playable character. Sure, she's not nearly as big a name as the ones you mentioned, but she's just so cool! Maybe she could at least be a Mii Brawler skin!

 

[SonicMario]

I think it's just that Sonic and Sega in general hit a peak in 1994-1996 that the franchise/company is never going to really get back no matter what it does for reasons that were both in and out of Sega's control (The failure of the Saturn was pretty much the beginning of the end for Sega as a console maker and the rise of the Playstation, especially the PS2 is what shut Sega down as a console maker for good). Though at the very least the Sonic franchise was still in a pretty good place all things considered until 2006 for... obvious reasons.

While I know the Adventure games are put under more heavy criticism nowadays then they used to be (I do still remember there was a time they were considered the golden standard for 3D Sonic). At the time of their release, Sonic was still in a pretty good spot and the titles were praised even if that's more so the knowledge this was the early 3D gaming days where there was no real high-standard set for a developing genre. I think even now the adventure games aren't necessarily BAD games, but because of the era it's definitely dated but it wasn't without it's charm. And there are many Sonic fans (myself included) who's first game was one of the adventure titles (Particularly Sonic Adventure 2 Battle on the gamecube). And I don't think it's any more wrong to look back at those games fondly then it is to look back at the classic trilogy.

I'm not going to say the Adventure games are as good or even as iconic to the franchise as the classics are. As even though SA2 was and still is my favorite game in the franchise, it's not as important as the trilogy that started it all. (Though part of it is I just can't beat the classic games without cheats while I can do the adventure games just fine. Not even Sonic 3 when it has save slots. I did get Mania but I still haven't beaten the main game yet because I've come across the same difficulties heh)

Still, at this point Sonic has used Modern Sonic's design for far longer then the Classic design has (Modern Sonic: 1998-Present Day = 20+ years and counting, Classic Sonic: 1991-1997, Brief stint in 2011 for Generations, 2017-Present Day: Mania and Forces = 8+ years) though I truly believe both can co-exist. I did kinda worry about whether Sega would actually start to move over the brand back to the classics after there was so much upheaval about the positivity over Mania followed by the disdain for Forces. Though thanks to stuff like the IDW Comic, Sonic still being Modern Sonic in Ultimate, etc. that's luckily not the case. I just think reverting back to the classic designs after all this time would be a huge step backward and steps on the toes on a major part of the fanbase that have at the very least grown accustomed to the current design. I still feel like the current Sonic design introduced to us back in Sonic Adventure is a pretty iconic design. Though I do have much respect for Classic as well, I have kinda wished Classic would be an alt of some kind to satisfy fans of both designs though I know the canon has it so that Classic Sonic is too short to be that.

Actually one of my biggest wants for the Switch is for anyway to get both Adventure games on it. Doesn't look like Gamecube virtual console is coming any time soon, but ports of the versions up on Steam would suffice. Portable Sonic adventure would do wonders for something like say... SA2's chao garden. While full on remakes and attempts to improve the quality of the old games would be awesome I just don't know if I can trust Sega to do that since both Adventure games, especially 2, was just filled to the brim with content. Taking on any Adventure game to try to update it for modern times whether it's an Adventure 3 or a remake is asking for trouble and filled with so much risk that Sega can't afford to fail on. It could too easily become a Sonic 4 situation but for the Adventure side of the fanbase. So a port's the best I got to hope for, It'll get all the dated complaints again but it'll still be the familiar game that was there for those who do love the games.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Hey guys, thought you might like this 300+ references in Mania video I made.

It's over 90 minutes long, so.. yeah.

(The video title and description should be showing up in English. Oh, and activate the subtitles, ofc)

Also, less than a week for Plus!

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

You know what would be a fun nod? If when Sonic got the Metal Box he would actually transform into Metal Sonic!

But I don't think the chances of that happening are very likely :'(

 

[TimonBoyd]

I Sonic's his down B & foward B Spin Dash can improve more so I can cancel out the right time.

 

[TimonBoyd]

For costumes, I was thinking of the tunic from the dlc in Sonic Lost World for Wii U.

 

[GDAKA]

I'd much rather have a Forces stage than a Mania stage, and this is coming from somebody who's enjoyed the franchise for 10+ years. I feel that Forces was better visually than Mania, but I'm not underselling Mania - it's just that Forces had nicer looking stages, imo (See Aqua Road, Chemical Plant, Null Space - the city).

 

[Sean Wheeler]

For costumes, I was thinking of the tunic from the dlc in Sonic Lost World for Wii U.

If he gets that costume, would his symbol change from the Sonic head to the Triforce?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Since the topic's title refers to this, I thought I might add what I think are the lyrics to the song. I've always seen people say "storm the castle" but what does that even mean? Was there a Sonic game in which Eggman had a castle? Anyway, I thought "capsule" made more sense and went with it, alongside a few other adjustments that sound much more closer to what the song sounds like at reduced playback speeds.

Mind you there's no official lyrics so far and English is not my first language, so.. yeah, grain of salt.

Act 1:
Yo, check the times and don't fret. Well, I'm back, kids
Roll out the door, straight up for the capsule
I'm a black belt, see, I have no fatigue
Out of my league, naughty 'Egg', you can see the cool in it
Check out my moves, check out my speed, how's that feelin'?
Goin' fast, feel the action in my beat
I live in the fast track, it's the game I play
I can't really stay, hey, have to (na na, na na) run

Act 2:
I'm the evil doctor with a bright genius and bad minions
To help me set the planet into entropying
I bend the rhythm like you (like you) never seen
I'm the greatest, finest villain that's ever been on the screen
I'm iconic, with my bionic animatronics
Stop the running menace, that's the hedgehog they call Sonic
My temper isn't charming, my mustache's on fire
Welcome to the new world: Eggman Empire

 

[SonicMario]

Was there a Sonic game in which Eggman had a castle?

Does Hang Castle from Sonic Heroes count?

 

[StupendousMike]

Does Hang Castle from Sonic Heroes count?

Was it Eggman's castle? I guess his robots were there.

I'm hoping for Studiopolis or a casino themed stage myself. Wouldn't mind Chemical Plant.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

The Direct today told us Sonic gets 20 songs.

Quick, how many unique songs have shown up in Brawl/4?

 

[infomon]

Green hill zone. City escape. 8 sonics. & knuckles the assist trophy.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

1. Green Hill Zone (Brawl and 4)
2. Angel Island Zone (Brawl and 4)
3. Scrap Brain Zone (Brawl)
4. Emerald Hill Zone (Brawl)
5. Sonic Boom (Brawl)
6. Super Sonic Racing (Brawl)
7. Open Your Heart (Brawl and 4)
8. Live & Learn (Brawl and 4)
9. Sonic Heroes (Brawl and 4)
10. Right There, Ride On (Brawl and 4)
11. HIS WORLD (Instrumental) (Brawl and 4)
12. Seven Rings in Hand (Brawl and 4)
13. Escape from the City (4)
14. Knight of the Wind (4)
15. Reach for the Stars (4)
16. Rooftop Run (4)
17. Wonder World (4)
18. Windy Hill - Zone 1 (4)

Two new songs, I guess.

Wishing for some Mania goodness (probs Studiopolis) and one for Shadow when he's finally revealed.