Social "I'm a Black Belt, I have no fatigue" - Sonic Discussion Thread

TheMagicalKuja

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#1

(Sauce)

Alright, ladies and gents! Let's talk shop about the fastest blue dude (hopefully) in the game. What are your hopes and dreams for how he plays, how Smash represents him, and what his stage is like?

Beyond just hoping he's in the game, I sure hope that Sonic Mania gets more of a nod in his stage creation instead of seeing Green Hill Zone or its derivatives (again). My personal desire is Stardust Speedway, but I'll take Studiopolis given that it's more recognizable.

I also hope that Sonic handles well in this game too. I'll be updating this post as more info is (hopefully) revealed.

(P.S. Title's quote comes from Mania's Metallic Madness Act 1 ;))
 
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UnknownM

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#3
I wish his Down B would change to something else, it's basically his Side B but with charging effects.

Anyone else want to see Tails in Smash 5 with Sonic?
 

StarDustStorm

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#4
Alright, ladies and gents! Let's talk shop about the fastest blue dude (hopefully) in the game. What are your hopes and dreams for how he plays, how Smash represents him, and what his stage is like?

Beyond just hoping he's in the game, I sure hope that Sonic Mania gets more of a nod in his stage creation instead of seeing Green Hill Zone or its derivatives (again). My personal desire is Stardust Speedway, but I'll take Studiopolis given that it's more recognizable.

I also hope that Sonic handles well in this game too. I'll be updating this post as more info is (hopefully) revealed.

(P.S. Title's quote comes from Mania's Metallic Madness Act 1 ;))
Studiopolis and Stardust Speedway works well as a home stage for Sonic instead of choosing the 1st predictable stage in most Sonic games, though the first Dreamcast+Unleashed Sonic stages were a breathe of fresh air in terms of Variety. Don't we lack beach stages in Sm4sh expect for Wuhu and Delphino Plaza but it doesn't become the main focus of those stages. The Sonic stage that centers around speed was not really represented in Smash Bros. before but it may be due to the F-zero stages. That's one reason we might not get Stardust Speedway and Studiopolis.

I wouldn't mind one of his B moves being changed to Light Dash.
As long as they stop basing Sonic off of his Classic incarnation we might not even get a Light Dash, plus with Sonic Mania being more successful in reception than Sonic Forces, we might not get a moveset change for Sonic.

I wish his Down B would change to something else, it's basically his Side B but with charging effects.

Anyone else want to see Tails in Smash 5 with Sonic?
Tails hasn't been playable in most main line Sonic games, but his Classic incarnation was a playable character in Mania. Shadow and Knuckles are a similar case except Shadow is playable in the most recent mainline Sonic game, Sonic Forces.

Tails' moveset in SSF2 fits him pretty well, and PM Knuckles moveset works well for Knuckles as well. Shadow, I'm not sure though there has been a ton of Brawl/PM mods that expresses how they want Shadow to play in a Smash Bros. game.

All 3 of these characters are still recognized as being previously playable characters despite not having much playability in games after Sonic 06.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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#5
I'm still hoping for a new moveset, but it seems unlikely. This is one of the reasons why the ever expanding roster seems either unlikely or makes me uncomfortable--58 characters has to be a nightmare to balance, and people want even *more*?
 

Quillion

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#6
I wish his Down B would change to something else, it's basically his Side B but with charging effects.
Seconded. Either the boost or Super Peel Out would do just fine.

Anyone else want to see Tails in Smash 5 with Sonic?
Hey, I thought I was the only one who wanted this! Since Sakurai seems to not want more than one character per third party franchise, they can put Tails in as his Up B.
 
D

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#7
Sonic is pretty much the only 3rd Party veteran that's guaranteed to return no matter what. I only hope that:
1-They change his moveset a bit, like giving him some attacks from Sonic Battle and give him a new Side B (something like the boost would be good enough)
2-The franchise is treated better on the music department. Seriously the fact that Sonic had no remixes was bull****.
 
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#8
I think the perfect solution is to have the Drop Dash as his Down B, though it should make you immediately drop to the ground. It'd be a great air-to-ground option and it'd also make him less annoying to fight against.
 
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#9
I want Sonic to come back, with a better attack variety and a better variety of music other than "Main Themes" and "First Stages" stuff.
 

Xeno610

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#10
The only 3rd parties that I expect to return as of right now are Sonic and Mega Man.
While Sonic had a rough time these past few years, he's still a very popular character and still remains an icon. The only scenarios I can see Sonic get cut is if Sakurai doesn't want to bring him back or Sega refuses to bring him back, both I find to be unlikely.

I expect to see a Forces stage, but I would appreciate seeing Chemical Plant or Studiopolis instead. I would also change his side special to either a boost or the Light Speed Attack... I don't really see a massive difference with his current side and down specials.
 
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#11
The only 3rd parties that I expect to return as of right now are Sonic and Mega Man.
While Sonic had a rough time these past few years, he's still a very popular character and still remains an icon. The only scenarios I can see Sonic get cut is if Sakurai doesn't want to bring him back or Sega refuses to bring him back, both I find to be unlikely.

I expect to see a Forces stage, but I would appreciate seeing Chemical Plant or Studiopolis instead. I would also change his side special to either a boost or the Light Speed Attack... I don't really see a massive difference with his current side and down specials.
Studiopolis Zone would be cool. I like what Tee Lopes did for the soundtrack, in an official game, no doubt. I do agree on the move changes.
 
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#13
sonic is the one and only 3rd party character thats locked for all smash games from here on out

and as for :4pacman::4megaman: i think they will be cause i think they want to do the 4 most iconic video game characters in one game again easily.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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#14
I want Sonic to come back, with a better attack variety and a better variety of music other than "Main Themes" and "First Stages" stuff.
I'm just going to second this hard. I also hope that Sega gets with the program and sends more useful stuff to Sakurai.
 

Quillion

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#15
I like Sonic, I really do, but I really have to disagree with people thinking that he gets "special treatment" as the only locked third party character.

What if Mega Man and Pac Man come back? Would they be locked for future games as well?
 

Morbi

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#16
My hope is that they stop treating him as the last minute addition in Brawl and actually fix his move-set to be moderately fun. Brawl killed the Sonic series for me. I suppose it saved me from having to play one of the terrible modern games, well, I did demo the Secret of the Seven Rings which helped affirm my decision. Either way, I have always wanted to jump back in; however, it would suck to be a Sonic fan and not be able to play Sonic.
 

Quillion

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#17
My hope is that they stop treating him as the last minute addition in Brawl and actually fix his move-set to be moderately fun. Brawl killed the Sonic series for me. I suppose it saved me from having to play one of the terrible modern games, well, I did demo the Secret of the Seven Rings which helped affirm my decision. Either way, I have always wanted to jump back in; however, it would suck to be a Sonic fan and not be able to play Sonic.
Just because two special moves are redundant doesn't make the whole moveset bad.
 

Morbi

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#18
Just because two special moves are redundant doesn't make the whole moveset bad.
They already started the process. He had a spin smash and my personal problem was just that he would spin, spin, spin. I understand that it is... In the spirit of Sonic. But it is not as though Mario jumps every time he attacks. They clearly took that element of the character WAY too far. Another aspect I hate, out of any character, and I played a lot of Sheik and Zero-Suit, I hate the down-air that plants you into the ground. Virtually worthless. If they changed that... Even to a spin, I would probably be happy. Other than that, obviously thinking up something other than a spin for 2 or 3 moves would not hurt. I would not mind a new jab combo. I am not sure if it came from a game or something, but it is probably among the most boring jabs in the entire game.
 

PF9

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#19
In my headcanons, Pikachu and Sonic are good friends since they are both small mammals (mouse and hedgehog, respectively).
 

Quillion

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#20
They already started the process. He had a spin smash and my personal problem was just that he would spin, spin, spin. I understand that it is... In the spirit of Sonic. But it is not as though Mario jumps every time he attacks. They clearly took that element of the character WAY too far. Another aspect I hate, out of any character, and I played a lot of Sheik and Zero-Suit, I hate the down-air that plants you into the ground. Virtually worthless. If they changed that... Even to a spin, I would probably be happy. Other than that, obviously thinking up something other than a spin for 2 or 3 moves would not hurt. I would not mind a new jab combo. I am not sure if it came from a game or something, but it is probably among the most boring jabs in the entire game.
Jab combo comes from the okay spinoff Sonic the Fighters.

Otherwise, I'd say the only change they could make is changing d-air to look like the Boost games' stomp. Apart from the redundant spindashes, that's all the things that really warrant alteration.
 

Quillion

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#22
I'd like his homing attack to be chargeable sort of like in Lost World. If uncharged, it goes straight for the enemy as a good combo starter. If charged, it's a kill move.
 

Quillion

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#24
If there's anything that's obvious, Roger Craig Smith will still be the VA of Sonic.

Although Jason Griffith's performance from Brawl will be missed.
Meh, Griffith's performance was from before he actually got good with Unleashed and Black Knight. Roger may not be as good as Griffith at his best, but he's still miles better than pre-Unleashed Griffith.
 

Shinuto

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#27
PM did an amazing job with Sonic. I want that Sonic. The down smash, the fair, the way his neutral and side specials worked. It was exactly how Sonic needs to be imo.
oh god I just want that fair, getting kills with that was EXTREMELY SATISFYING.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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#28
Sonic Speed replacing that one was the biggest ever mistake.
Exactly. Roger wasn't around for voicing which is why they used a bunch of previous clips, but I hope they change that this time around.

To return to a few earlier posts:
I wouldn't mind one of his B moves being changed to Light Dash.
The thing about Light Dash is that it'd probably work a lot like Pac-man's Side B... which I think Sakurai would feel iffy about because it runs counter to Sonic's game plan (giving him air control he shouldn't have)

Reworking his current Side B into Strike Dash/Super Peel Out/Boost Mode might work better. Just like the original spin dash, but Sonic's running and only has armor on during the first few frames (until just after the hop like he currently does).

Studiopolis and Stardust Speedway works well as a home stage for Sonic instead of choosing the 1st predictable stage in most Sonic games, though the first Dreamcast+Unleashed Sonic stages were a breathe of fresh air in terms of Variety. Don't we lack beach stages in Sm4sh expect for Wuhu and Delphino Plaza but it doesn't become the main focus of those stages. The Sonic stage that centers around speed was not really represented in Smash Bros. before but it may be due to the F-zero stages. That's one reason we might not get Stardust Speedway and Studiopolis.
Cityscape levels are a lot more frequent in Smash, and Sonic has stiff competition there. I think New Donk City being as popular as it is might be the big killer for Studiopolis/Stardust Speedway's chances.

To run another suggestion, what about Press Garden?
 

Wario Wario Wario

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#30
I'm hoping Classic Sonic replaces Modern Sonic, preferably the JP box art or NTSC/mohawk box art design and not Toei Classic Sonic.
 

SonicMario

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#31
I'm hoping Classic Sonic replaces Modern Sonic, preferably the JP box art or NTSC/mohawk box art design and not Toei Classic Sonic.
Outright replacing won't happen. If Classic Sonic is at all to be included it'd likely be as an Alt (Even if Generations and Forces had them at different sizes. Maybe they'd make Classic Sonic somewhat bigger then he's portrayed in those games. I used a mod on Project M that had a Classic Sonic as big if not just a little bit taller then Modern Sonic's model was and it still worked fine)

But yeah, just because Modern Sonic has a somewhat more spotty game record then Classic. Doesn't mean they should drop it altogether. There are plenty of fans perfectly ok with Modern Sonic's design and/or by now people who grew up with Modern Sonic's design since either of the two Adventure games. Modern Sonic's design is not to blame on why Sonic's games aren't as consistent.
 

Putuk

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#32
I'm expecting Studiopolis as a stage, but what are the odds of seeing Chemical Plant? Its returned in as many core Sonic games as Green Hill since his Smash debut.
You're getting Sunset Hights and you're gonna love it, just like you LOVED Forces! Our lord and savior Iizuka wills it!


In all seriousness, as much as I want something from Mania, we're gonna get something from Forces.
Iizuka in his infinite wisdom has decided that Classic and Modern Sonic are two completely seperate characters and continuities (which makes no sense, but when did Sonic Team ever do something reasonable?), meaning Studiopolis CANNOT be in Smash, because the Sonic in Smash is MODERN!!

I'm definitly predicting Sunset Heights as the new stage, since it's the one they showed off the most in promotional stuff for Forces. If he had to take anything from that embarrassment of a game, couldn't be at least have Capital City with Infinites illusions as stage hazards, or at the very least Mystical Forest, which has an interesting aesthetic? Nah, doubt it, SEGA will probably mandate that they use the most recognizable (and boring) location for a stage.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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#33
Yeaaahhhh I'm hoping Sega's smarter about music and stage selection this time around, but I'm not counting on it, despite Mania being a runaway success that they recognize.

I'm gonna disagree heavily on Classic Sonic being better than Modern design wise. As far as I'm concerned, Smash 4 already had an optimum Sonic design, and I'd rather not toss it out just because a bigger stomach and no green eyes would be "cuter" or not give "bad memories".
 

Putuk

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#34
Yeaaahhhh I'm hoping Sega's smarter about music and stage selection this time around, but I'm not counting on it, despite Mania being a runaway success that they recognize.

I'm gonna disagree heavily on Classic Sonic being better than Modern design wise. As far as I'm concerned, Smash 4 already had an optimum Sonic design, and I'd rather not toss it out just because a bigger stomach and no green eyes would be "cuter" or not give "bad memories".
That's not gonna happen, 'cuz SEGA is gonna tell them they need to use Modern anyhow, it's not for the Smash team to decide.
Which is a bit odd, since aside from the Homing Attack pretty much all of his moveset is based on the classic era stuff.

I do like Modern Sonic, but I feel they never really managed to translate the wonderful SA1/2 artwork into 3D properly.
And to be honest, due to Sonic Teams continuos blunders, I think I'm starting to like Classic more. : /


Goddamn, what would I give for a weird gimmicky stage based on Mirage Saloon.
 

SonicMario

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#35
That's not gonna happen, 'cuz SEGA is gonna tell them they need to use Modern anyhow, it's not for the Smash team to decide.
Which is a bit odd, since aside from the Homing Attack pretty much all of his moveset is based on the classic era stuff.

I do like Modern Sonic, but I feel they never really managed to translate the wonderful SA1/2 artwork into 3D properly.
And to be honest, due to Sonic Teams continuos blunders, I think I'm starting to like Classic more. : /
They did use the Pac-Man design closer to the Pac-Man World games then the Ghostly Adventures design that everyone feared was going to be used. (Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man didn't even make it as an Alt). And there are many designs over the years that Sakurai could of picked to bring Megaman into Smash and picked a more straight up upgrade to 3D for the 2D sprites of the Classic Megaman games. So I'm not entirely sure it's completely the 3rd Party team's decision for the design. Both parties probably negotiate it at least especially when the characters are newcomers, but otherwise I'm not 100% sure it's completely the 3rd parties decision in question.

If they don't like a way the Smash teams designs their character they'd probably step in but I don't think they've needed to. Since at least it seems like Sakurai has picked a design choice that the 3rd Parties are generally happy with. If there was any disagreement at all we might not know about it because it stays behind closed doors. (There was a rumor going around Sakurai might of refused to include Pac-Man if he was stuck with the Ghostly Adventures design, not sure if that was ever verified if that was true though). But from what we can tell, it seems both came to an agreement on design on some level.
 
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#36
Black Belt? What's that title got to do with Sonic? Anyway two appearances doesn't really lock someone in the Smash series as the Ice Climbers had shown us. If Nintendo decided to make a Smash game strictly Nintendo without any third-party characters, or if Sega gets a problem, Sonic would surely get cut. But since Sonic has been my main for Brawl and Smash 4, I would like him to return without any changes. And Tails is my most wanted third-party character that I voted in the ballot so Sonic's gotta stay if Tails comes in.
 

SonicMario

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#37
Black Belt? What's that title got to do with Sonic? Anyway two appearances doesn't really lock someone in the Smash series as the Ice Climbers had shown us. If Nintendo decided to make a Smash game strictly Nintendo without any third-party characters, or if Sega gets a problem, Sonic would surely get cut. But since Sonic has been my main for Brawl and Smash 4, I would like him to return without any changes. And Tails is my most wanted third-party character that I voted in the ballot so Sonic's gotta stay if Tails comes in.
Ice Climbers had the issue of not working on the 3DS version otherwise they would of been in Smash 4. Even if we ignored that, Sonic's a much more overall popular character then the Ice Climbers are.

Though yeah the only way Sonic gets cut is if they decided to go back to Nintendo only (Which why would they? 3rd Party characters have been the big hype makers for Smash games. It'd still sell well, but that'd pretty much kill alot of the hype from the start for many) or if Sega had a falling out with Nintendo (Which seems unlikely to happen right now, Sega is still pretty tight with Nintendo currently.)

(Also on the Black Belt quote, apparently it's lyrics in this song from Sonic Mania)
 
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#38
True, 3rd Party characters have been hype makers. But they also give fans ideas that characters like Goku, Shrek and Mickey Mouse and even Cory in the House would be in Super Smash Bros so going back to the Nintendo-only character limit could be a smart move. Cloud's inclusion was ridiculous enough anyway. And they did remove the story mode over petty reasons of Brawl's Subspace Emissary getting leaked online. A lot of cutscenes have been enjoyable no matter how many times I watch them and Nintendo could have given leakers stricter punishment if they pirate the cutscenes. But I would like Sonic and the story mode to come back so that he could have a bigger role and travel with Mario.
 
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