lukintosh
Smash Ace
The only strengths Ike has right now is strength. And super armor frames. And his coolness.=P
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Ike's Possible Strengths
- Thread starter SOPF
- Start date
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Ike's Back Air doesn't turn him around in the air. Let me show you:
This picture illustrates Ike's falling animation in action
Looking back at the other topic, he is still in mid animation with the attack. I also watched the video to clarify this. Ike's bair doesn't turn him around, the turn around is a result of high ending lag on his attack animation.
Bair> Side B > Aether. Hmm?
YOu would probably have to cancel the aerial some how, but with the new cancel method it's pretty difficult. Maybe just Side B> Aether.
That animation doesn't work; it just shows the still picture. Sorry. XPIke's Back Air doesn't turn him around in the air. Let me show you:
This picture illustrates Ike's falling animation in action
Looking back at the other topic, he is still in mid animation with the attack. I also watched the video to clarify this. Ike's bair doesn't turn him around, the turn around is a result of high ending lag on his attack animation.
Bair> Side B > Aether. Hmm?
YOu would probably have to cancel the aerial some how, but with the new cancel method it's pretty difficult. Maybe just Side B> Aether.
But anyway, I believe you. And since the Bair doesn't turn him around, then indeed, I do think perhaps you could combo his Side-B into Aether. I'm not sure how the final, slamming hit of Aether affects the opponent, but if the opponent is just sent straight down next to Ike, chances are the opponent will mash A to get up. That could be Countered for even more damage (and for all we know Ike's Counter is a killer).
Edit: The opponent is sent up a little bit, but Ike is fully mobile and able to act. Surely there is a way to take advantage of that. Not all of Ike's attacks are that slow, just most of them.
Edit: Ike's Eruption hits behind him. You can see it here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=D533pueDHLc
How's that for defensive play and edgeguarding?
Yeah this is very true. In the first Delfino video Ike does bair and looks like he turned around but then he returns to the original position while falling.
You possilby could cancel the turn around animation with New L-cancel since the bair has a decent startup to be shffl'ed (I think).
I have to tune up a bit the normal moves thread.
SonicZeroX
Smash Lord
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RoxasXIII
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Hong
The Strongest
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Why are you posting this in nearly every Ike topic? We have all seen it many times. :/
Afro Boy2000
Smash Journeyman
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Ike seems to have more reach than any smash character in existance, he has plenty of semi-invincibility frames and hes a heavy weight. He seems like a decent character. It makes sense that he has long startup lag on most of his moves because hes lugging around what seems to be an incredibly heavy sword. The wierd thing is that Ike's B-moves seem somewat fast, I think they should be the generally safe and spammable kill moves that are gonna give him a fighting chance in Brawls futur competative scene.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Not really. His recovery is garbage and has the most startup and post lag in the demo. Up-B can get through shields, but has lag after the attack, making him vulnerable. Side-B is fast, but Ike also suffers from lag after this as well. Down-B can be useful, but only in certain situations like Marth's and Roy's. A grab will render that attack useless. Ike is just a very slow character. He's even slower than Bowser, which will make him a target for fast attacks and easily dodging his attacks due to most of his attacks having horrendous lag.
The pros I can think up of is Ike has a lot of power, has great range, and a decent grab range. However, the cons greatly destroy his pros. Anyone that has good evasive manuevers and is faster than Ike will tear him to shreds. Grabbing him gets him out of his super armor. The only way he'll be a beast is in FFAs should he stay like this. I'm hoping mainly speed buffs so he can be good in one-on-one matches. In other words, Ike is garbage at this point.
-Dark-Marth-
Smash Apprentice
Sadly, this man speaks the truth.
His recovery isn't that bad (remember that he's a heavy character, so simply to send him somewhere is tough anyway; in relative terms he doesn't need as good a recovery system as the others). One simply has to adjust their positioning and thinking when it comes to Aether. Besides, I'm not sure if anybody has thought of this:
Side-B purposely towards the stage, when at a lower elevation, then Aether up to the ledge.
Also, Ike's lag when he lands from Aether is very small, which is surprising compared to his other attacks.
Yes, the Counter is vulnerable to grabs, but let's face it, that problem is only valid on a novice level. And then there's also the possibility of being able to Down-B out of a shield, which would boost the Counter's effectiveness, greatly boost Ike's overall effectiveness and add a whole new section of strategy and counter-strategy (mindgames, in other words) relating to Ike.
Yes, Ike is slow, but remember the Super Armour. Here's a perfect example:
Both Fox and Ike do their F-Smashes. Ike's SA frames ward off the knockback (and damage, according to the demo) from Fox's attack, while Ike's attack continues and swats Fox away with the force of a cannon. Yeah, the SA does nothing to grabs, but how can your opponent grab if they're doing something else? Of course, that's pure speculation, but it could be a reality. And if it is, that'll go a long way to making Brawl's slowest character tourney-worthy.
Every character can perform well. What matters is how willing a player is to master that character. It's easy to tell that Ike will be one of the most difficult characters to master, but surely there must be some sort of payoff there that makes it worth it, just like Voldo in SC or Gou in VF. The devs of this game aren't idiots.
Hong
The Strongest
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Well, while Aether's landing lag is less than some of Ike's other attacks, it's still long enough that you'll always get punished for it. 
I put some thought into it and I don't mind if Ike isn't improved a great deal. In every competitive game I play, I always like picking the so called horrible classes/characters/attributes and learn how to use them. Even if everyone thinks it's very unlikely beyond words, I'll spend a long time miserably trying to make it work even if it takes months. That way I can play a character who is less popular, which is always a plus for me.
I put some thought into it and I don't mind if Ike isn't improved a great deal. In every competitive game I play, I always like picking the so called horrible classes/characters/attributes and learn how to use them. Even if everyone thinks it's very unlikely beyond words, I'll spend a long time miserably trying to make it work even if it takes months. That way I can play a character who is less popular, which is always a plus for me.
You can't down-B out of shield like you can with Up-smash and Up-B. The reason the Up attacks work right away out of a shield is because of jump canceling.
It has already been confirmed that you can't do both the side-B and up-B in the air.
It has already been confirmed that you can't do both the side-B and up-B in the air.
First of all, you're talking about Melee. I'm not.
Second of all, it says on the Dojo that you can charge Mario's FLUDD within his shield, or rather, you will be able to in the final game. Is it really that big of a stretch that in Brawl any character will be able to Down+B out of a shield, with varying results depending on the character? Think about it. In Melee, using up attacks out of a shield was a glitch, but since it has such potential, perhaps in Brawl it's been made into a real technique, along with down attacks.
This thread is called "Ike's Possible Strengths". Stop talking about Melee and start talking about possibilities.
And where has that been confirmed? Besides, either way Ike doesn't have the best recovery; I already admitted that.
Luna, it doesn't last that long. O_o
Cless
Smash Champion
I'm just curious. Where does it say that Ike will be a heavy character? I haven't read anything about that.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Apparently, you didn't read Gimpyfish's description of Ike or you didn't read it so well in his thread. He stated that after Side-B, Ike can't use Up-B anymore. It's not like Luigi's recovery. Being slow can be very taxing when it comes to actually getting a hit on someone one on one. You guys seem to think that this game will be perfectly balanced and Ike is somehow going to be a good character should he remain with his garbage status in Brawl. The truth is that it will not happen should it occur. And just about the only way you'll ever be able to hit someone with the F-smash is if they made a horrible mistake since Ike is a horrible character with the majority being slow and laggy moves that are slower than even Bowser.
Super Armor wouldn't do much against fast attacks, and the designers don't focus too much on balance. And the Down-B out of shield isn't possible, so that option is out of the question. Ike is bad for now, folks. He's not Roy. Even Roy is better than Ike, and that's saying something. Oh, and just because someone is good with a character doesn't make the character good. I play Roy against my best friend's Link and beat him in all of our matches. Is is because Roy is good? No. Roy is a horrible character and is a worse character than Link. It's because I'm better at playing the game than my best friend is.That's a flawed view of how good a character really is. Ike doesn't have as many good attributes like the other characters.
I wasn't talking about melee, both of the things I mentioned were tested in the demo. Discussing Ike's strengths doesn't mean saying things that aren't true.
I am going to main Ike, and I hope some things about him are changed without losing his current playstyle.
I am going to main Ike, and I hope some things about him are changed without losing his current playstyle.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Saying that Ike's a good character because of his power and super armor as of now isn't true.
I'll main him regardless, but I wouldn't blind myself with lies should he be a garbage character and keep telling myself that he's an awesome character.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Good because that's not what I was implying. It just seems that some people in the Ike forums are making Ike sound better than he is as of present and should he be a bad character, I believe they'll still keep doing it and end up like the Roy forums.
I just want to get this point across:1. Ike is a bad character in the demo due to his severe lack of speed and his pre and post lag attacks.
2. He needs speed buffs.
3. Ike is not as good as some people think he is.
1. Alright, alright, I was wrong about a potential recovery combo for Ike.
2. I know that Brawl won't be perfectly balanced, and it's not like I'm shouting: "IKE FOR TOP TIER!!!" or anything. All I'm saying is that Ike, no matter how he ranks compared to the other characters, is simply not as bad as you and a lot of other people are claiming; even if he turns out to be the worst character I do not believe that he will be "absolute garbage". And, as is the purpose of this topic, I'm giving out ideas for possible advantages for him. And let's face it, the way you and others are talking, one would think Ike has absolutely no strengths that can stand out against his weaknesses whatsoever. Does that sound like good game design to you?
3. How can a character be good if he's "garbage"? Maybe Ike is the worst character; I think at the absolute best he'll be low-tier, which is to say "below average". Remember that you are the ones saying: "Ike is bad. Period.", and I and others are the ones saying: "Ike could be good".
And what makes that so funny is that all of your claims are based off of, as Gimpy says so many times, 4-days' worth of info from an unfinished game.
4. The point of my example is not Ike's F-smash. The point is that, depending on its properties, the SA could be pretty useful.
5. Okay, how do you know that using Down+B moves while shielding is impossible? What if nobody at E4A tried it? What if it simply hadn't been implemented for the demo? You're trying to use speculation to prove an assumed fact, and I'm using factual info to support a theory.
6. I understand that, as of the limited knowledge we have, Ike is bad. He is bad because he is too slow. But I am not saying anything other than: "Ike could be better in the final game than what we've seen, and this is why".
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
1. Glad you understand that.
2. Your reading comprehension is off. I have previously stated that people will think Ike is good despite him being a garbage character if his statistics are that of the demo. Got it memorized?
3. You're the one being ridiculous. I've stated before that Ike has great range, strong attacks, and a decent grab range and his cons destroy his pros on one on one matches. I also previously stated in the past that he needs speed buffs and a better recovery to be better. Stop putting words in my mouth!
4. You're right about Super Armor being useful.
5. That's an assumption and I'll admit I'm assuming as well except mine's more likely to be implemented in the game since they've haven't done it before and Up-B is one of the few things you can do out of shield.
6. I believe that too, but you're getting way off-base of what I've stated in the Ike forums before. I have said before that Ike needs buffs to be better and it could happen.
Finally got that out of the way.
2. I'm not talking about what people think, though. People think Pichu is good. *insert LOL emote here* People can think what they want, but I really believe in Ike, and I want to see a slow character that can compete with the speedy ones. It's not an impossible feat. Yes, I think Ike's moves shouldn't have such absurd lag moments (realistically, no swordsman would wield a sword that heavy if he couldn't wield it competently), but I like to believe in and support the idea of a slow character being great. In the case of Ike, I doubt that'll happen whether he changes or not for the final game, but I'll take what I can get.1. Glad you understand that.
2. Your reading comprehension is off. I have previously stated that people will think Ike is good despite him being a garbage character if his statistics are that of the demo. Got it memorized?
3. You're the one being ridiculous. I've stated before that Ike has great range, strong attacks, and a decent grab range and his cons destroy his pros on one on one matches. I also previously stated in the past that he needs speed buffs and a better recovery to be better. Stop putting words in my mouth!
4. You're right about Super Armor being useful.
5. That's an assumption and I'll admit I'm assuming as well except mine's more likely to be implemented in the game since they've haven't done it before and Up-B is one of the few things you can do out of shield.
6. I believe that too, but you're getting way off-base of what I've stated in the Ike forums before. I have said before that Ike needs buffs to be better and it could happen.
Finally got that out of the way.
5. Nevertheless. At least one character can do a Down+B move while shielding, so it's a valid possibility that in the final game others can. And the fact that they haven't done it before doesn't really matter; there are plenty of things in Brawl that have never been done before.
Actually. people weren't able to figure out how to use Mario's down-B while in a shield, also the description we got of how it should work, only says that you can charge it while shielding. We don't know if it's meant to be used out of the shield.
Would being able to use counter out of a shield be all the useful? People don't generally repeatedly attack a shield. There are multi-hit attacks I suppose, but the hitstun it does usually keeps you from doing anything until it ends.
Would being able to use counter out of a shield be all the useful? People don't generally repeatedly attack a shield. There are multi-hit attacks I suppose, but the hitstun it does usually keeps you from doing anything until it ends.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
2. You misinterpreted what I previously stated and I exploited you for it. You made it look like I was saying Ike was going to be garbage in the demo. I restated it by saying that people shouldn't be thinking Ike's good should he retain his characteristic traits in the demo.Get your facts straight! Oh, and just because you believe in something doesn't mean it's true. Many fighting games don't follow the trend of slow characters being great.
Cless
Smash Champion
Like, the vast majority.
I admit, the description only says that you can charge the attack while shielding, but that must mean that when you drop Mario's shield he can use it right away. However, there is yet a chance that, for Mario, inputting the Down+B command while shielding only charges FLUDD, but for other characters the entire move is executed. You can't deny that it would be a great addition to the game.
And actually, countering out of a shield would be very useful, if for no other reason than the fact that it would offer another option, and therefore one more thing for the opponent to think about. Besides, Brawl looks to be more accessible than Melee, and letting players switch from one defense to another (a lot of Down Specials are defensive in nature) would certainly help.
Going with your example of multi-hit attacks, let's say you use...Mario's dair on a shielding Ike, assuming for argument's sake that Ike's Counter activates on frame 1. You could dodge it, but something tells me Ike's dodges won't be all that. You certainly couldn't sidestep it. You wouldn't be able to grab or Aether out of the shield, either, because Mario's dair is too fast for either of them. But you could Counter, and watch the plumber fly. As for the hitstun, didn't Gimpy say in his topic that hitstun has been greatly reduced?
Edit: Oh, he said in his topic that hitsun has increased...still!
I'll admit, that's sort of a bad example, but you can see the point.
Cless, yes, most fighting games don't have good slow characters (hooray for Nightmare!), and I think they need more. There are enough speed demons in videogameland.
Cless
Smash Champion
When do Aether's super armor frames activate? You might actually be able to up b multi hitting attacks like that.
RWB
Smash Ace
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- Jan 28, 2006
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- 969
Nightmare is more of a speed character in SC3, and is like... Low tierish. Siegfried is slower but is higher on the list. The only "slowish" character that is really any good... is the top tier Astaroth(!)
If nowhere else, the SA frames activate when Ike kneels to leap after his sword. Though I suspect that they'll activate from the beginning of the move and go on until he grabs his sword.
TheJalapeno
Smash Ace
I think Ike would be amazing if he could pick up the speed just a tad, but when I played he was fantastic! I had no trouble schooling Metaknight (Who my friend was a lot; you usually had to play in pairs) but his moves take some time to actually do, but the sweet part is that you can learn to time and eventually just flow the attacks together, and by flow, from what I played, I mean F-Smash and B your way to victory.
Ike is going to be an awesome character, regardless of speed. I know it was already brought up, but I must say I see him exactly as I saw Ganon. He SEEMED bad at first, because I was used to fast people. After I used him a few times, I found him to be a beast. Though his moves had some lag, all you really need is to time it. And if Ike has ridiculously powerful moves like Ganon( F-air and D-air) that can destroy people easily at low percentages, what's the problem?
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
if you wanna watch some videos or read some threads... you would see how wrong you are. Ike's Bair is a fast move that turns him around so he can go off on them. His regualy attack is a quick combination of hits. His Nair and Uair are also fairly fast with minimal if any startup. It is also said that his forward tilt is a quick move to get some spacing..
Just saying
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
1st. Ike's activation time (via button press > Activation) on his moves are all slow including his aerials.
2.His Bair doesn't turn Ike around, the ending lag makes you turn around in a complete circle.
3. His Fair is his slowest aerial, his Nair is Ok, and his Uair has a crappy hitbox and can't strike anything below Ike.
4. You can't judge how fast is Ike based on videos.
5. The only quick attacks about Ike are his standard A combo attacks, nothing more.
fire_wulf
Smash Journeyman
m'kay.... thanks for the more specific info. Alls i could do was speculate since i wasn't at e4all