Ike's Possible Strengths

[SOPF]

I am a current Marth main who plans to switch to Ike with the release of SSBB and after hearing accounts of his lacking as a character I began searching for usable strengths to counteract his weaknesses. What I was able to come up with was his incredible sword spacing. His u-smash is probably the most far reaching melee attack I've ever seen in a Smash game. That being said, I want to know if his sword out reaches Marth's. If so, I think that will prove to provided a serious advantage for us Ike enthusiasts so any confirmations as to this out spacing of Marth by Ike would be appreciated.

On another note but still related to Ike's strengths, I was theorizing possible combos for Ike and came across the thought of using the Bair into a Nair in a single SH. I'm assuming the speed of Ike's Bair would permit this but I'm still unsure. If this SH double aerial is a possibilty my thought is that, as well as serving as a tool for comboing, it will provide a good way to apply large amounts of shield pressure quickly. Once again this is just a query that I would like to get some opinions on and any thoughts or further insight would be greatly appreciated.

Hopefully this topic won't get closed for being somewhat early. Anyway thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[Jeremy092387]

Ike's strength, well, his is strength and his no flinch frames. I think people are giving him too little credit. Sure, his moves have slow start up, but I really don't see it destroying him as a character. He has a few quick moves and he can be shown to dominate faster characters with his Counter move(See the awesome sudden death with Meta-Knight.).

I really think Ike has more potential than people say he has. I think it will take more time, but remember, there are just demo impressions with limited play, so people still aren't adjusted to him or Brawl's different gameplay for that matter.

 

[Zeela12]

by the looks of this, Ike is no way the "new marth."

Ike is way too slow to move swiftly as marth did. I think if you're a marth main (Like me), you should looks into other characters. Ike is slower than bowser, by a lot too. And Ike is like a tank, he almost never dies.

And who knows, maybe marth is still in.

 

[SOPF]

I'm sorry i worded the above post wrongly. I was actually refering to strengths beyond the obvious one s of power and invincibility frames. Brute force IMO doesn't compensate for Ike's delay before his Fair and F-smash and his lacking in horizontal recovery. His invincibilty frames are a plus but I was trying to delve a bit deeper.

Zeela, I do agree that Ike isn't the new Marth but I want to use him because I like the FE series and enjoyed POR. Now if Marth is kept I'll definitely think twice about switching my main but, until he is confirmed, I'm looking on towards starting anew with Ike.

 

[Windlord]

I'm a Roy user, and even if Roy made it back (which is unlikley) I would still stick with Ike cus he is my favorite FE character of all time.

I agree that Ike has much more potential than some people give him. Yes he's slow, yes his recovery sucks, but he's also strong, has a counter, and doesn't flinch very much. all in all I think his negative and positives are about even. His negative just make it more fun, it's no fun having a character that can pwn everyone without trying.

 

[Bowserlick]

Slow characters are harder to learn with, hence part of the reason why Ike is viewed as a horrid character.

Remember, people at the demo need to wait in line before they can play. So picking a character with a hard learning curve again and again, could make the game stale for them. I am sure after waiting half an hour, no one wants to lose with little chance just because all the nuances of the character have not yet been figured out.

Ike has range and strength. A few moves do come out fast. Ike probably has to rely on his throws for spacing and his quick attacks to give him some breathing room.

So against other heavy characters he has the advantage of having just as much range with added power due to his weapon. Plus Ike might be heavy himself even though his model size is slightly above average.

Against fast characters, Ike can probably outlast them on the stage as long as he isn't knocked off. Ike's recovery seems to be similar to Luigi's. One move for horizantal distance and one for vertical. Ike also has his counter. From what I hear it activates fast and has Roy Counter properties.

Conclusion: Ike is a defensive character that wants to stay midrange with his enemies. Throws and counter plus quick attacks can knock very offensive oppenents far enough away for his long range sword. And his forward smash looks like an effective edge guarder. In fact all his smashes probably are (giving him armor to withstand oncoming recovery attacks while delivering a powerful attack of his own).

He has two glaring weaknesses it seems.

1. Recovery: Predictable and limited. His recovery moves seem better as actual moves then means to recovery. And I am not sure how good his jumps are.

2. Projectile Target: Any shooting character is going to find it easy throwing Ike off guard with a barrage of shots, not allowing the slow swordsman the oppurnity to advance close enough.

 

[Marthgreil]

Slow characters are harder to learn with, hence part of the reason why Ike is viewed as a horrid character.

Remember, people at the demo need to wait in line before they can play. So picking a character with a hard learning curve again and again, could make the game stale for them. I am sure after waiting half an hour, no one wants to lose with little chance just because all the nuances of the character have not yet been figured out.

Ike has range and strength. A few moves do come out fast. Ike probably has to rely on his throws for spacing and his quick attacks to give him some breathing room.

So against other heavy characters he has the advantage of having just as much range with added power due to his weapon. Plus Ike might be heavy himself even though his model size is slightly above average.

Against fast characters, Ike can probably outlast them on the stage as long as he isn't knocked off. Ike's recovery seems to be similar to Luigi's. One move for horizantal distance and one for vertical. Ike also has his counter. From what I hear it activates fast and has Roy Counter properties.

Conclusion: Ike is a defensive character that wants to stay midrange with his enemies. Throws and counter plus quick attacks can knock very offensive oppenents far enough away for his long range sword. And his forward smash looks like an effective edge guarder. In fact all his smashes probably are (giving him armor to withstand oncoming recovery attacks while delivering a powerful attack of his own).

He has two glaring weaknesses it seems.

1. Recovery: Predictable and limited. His recovery moves seem better as actual moves then means to recovery. And I am not sure how good his jumps are.

2. Projectile Target: Any shooting character is going to find it easy throwing Ike off guard with a barrage of shots, not allowing the slow swordsman the oppurnity to advance close enough.

His recovery is like that of Kirby's. I heard counter last as long as Marth's. Obviously he is slow and his counter can only protect him so long for projectiles.

 

[Maben]

His recovery is like that of Kirby's. I heard counter last as long as Marth's. Obviously he is slow and his counter can only protect him so long for projectiles.

Well his Aether goes straight up and then straight down, it doesn't have the small horizontal capabilities like Kirby. Not to mention Kirby floats lol.

 

[LuLLo]

I'm definitly going to play Ike and maybe main him among some others, I have always liked the Long-Sword-Strong-Kickass characters.
And even if he's slow and has a bad recovery, practise leads towards improvement, I've played Bowser seriously the last 2 months and I can defeat my friends as easily as with C.Falcon. Also, the challenge here for me is that I want be good with a TOTAL different character than C.Falcion, and it works :D!!
Point: even though he is slow, even though he has bad recovery, even though maybe he lacks combo ability, he's just got a different play style, not Hit-And-Run, not Combo-Like-Crazy,
but Space-And-Knock-The-Sh*t-Out-Of-Them-If-They-Get-Close-Playstyle...

 

[GenG]

Now with Dedede, it seems that Sakurai is aiming for a better image of the heavyweights, so I doubt Ike will be a failure.

I believe in Sakurai. Ike doesn't seem as bad as people say by the way.

 

[Raikage]

Ike looks like he'll be one tough cookie. He has huge strength in his attacks, he might be slow but if you get hit, it'll hurt. People will get used to him when the game is released. People just need to play him like a heavyweight and not try to play him like he's Marth.

 

[Teebs]

I think one strength that he'll have is the ability to tip with the sword, which Marth also has in SSBM.

 

[tennisthehilife]

His strength is his strength. He has lots of weaknesses but to me it will be part of the fun and his heavy two-handed pure power sword style is unique from the other swordsmen. Kirby + Ike for my mains!

 

[Roy-Kun]

Ike's good sides are his strenght and he doesn't flinch... much.

But still, it's happening the same with him that happened with other characters... he's being screwed up.

 

[Nowfist]

People should stop claiming him as heavy weight, its obvious heavy weights are the big characters, not the strong ones.

Ike will be able to take care of both fast and strong characters, counter and ranger critical are fast initiative moves, there is no way a fast character can get a chance on Ike if he's well played.

 

[Saph66]

People should stop claiming him as heavy weight, its obvious heavy weights are the big characters, not the strong ones.

Ike will be able to take care of both fast and strong characters, counter and ranger critical are fast initiative moves, there is no way a fast character can get a chance on Ike if he's well played.

Dude he is a heavy weight character, in brawl that is. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to be "BIG" to be heavy weight. Look at the two handed sword he is wielding, its freaking huge and heavy, thats why he is slowed down.

Take a look at Ganondorf, he is heavy weight, big, slow and strong, your argument doesn't make sense.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Ya' know...here's a fun thought. Let's just SAY that wake up attacks' knockback is nullified by Ike's super armor. If this were to actually happen, it'd be funny as hell to tech chase with a FS, XDDD.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Ya' know...here's a fun thought. Let's just SAY that wake up attacks' knockback is nullified by Ike's super armor. If this were to actually happen, it'd be funny as hell to tech chase with a FS, XDDD.

It probably would work like that =D


In other news, in one of the vids Ike ***** a free for all. Just goes into the crowd and OHKOs the other 3 one by one. So even if he is botton tier at one on one, he pwns free for alls and he may be a very good team character.

 

[Saph66]

But everyone wants Ike to be good in solo games, not just free for alls. >_>

 

[SonicZeroX]

But everyone wants Ike to be good in solo games, not just free for alls. >_>

<_<
>_>
Feb 10th...

 

[Saph66]

<_<
>_>
Feb 10th...

>_>
<_<
Feb 10th
What does this have to do with my comment? =/

 

[Yojimbo]

It means to wait and see. He could be tweaked and what not since they have plenty of time.

 

[The Turtle]

by the looks of this, Ike is no way the "new marth."

Ike is way too slow to move swiftly as marth did. I think if you're a marth main (Like me), you should looks into other characters. Ike is slower than bowser, by a lot too. And Ike is like a tank, he almost never dies.

And who knows, maybe marth is still in.

Ike is going to be LAME
If you were a true marth main you would know that

 

[Windlord]

Dude he is a heavy weight character, in brawl that is. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to be "BIG" to be heavy weight. Look at the two handed sword he is wielding, its freaking huge and heavy, thats why he is slowed down.

Take a look at Ganondorf, he is heavy weight, big, slow and strong, your argument doesn't make sense.

Actually I agree with nowfist.

Sakurai himself said on the Dedede update.

"He joins as a member of the heavyweight class alongside Bowser and Donkey Kong. Can he defeat Kirby?!"

no Ike...

Ike is Midweight.

 

[Nowfist]

Dude he is a heavy weight character, in brawl that is. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to be "BIG" to be heavy weight. Look at the two handed sword he is wielding, its freaking huge and heavy, thats why he is slowed down.

Take a look at Ganondorf, he is heavy weight, big, slow and strong, your argument doesn't make sense.

But the thing is, Sakurai claims that the standards on heavyweight characters have changed, so that means that a lot of things will have to be changed in our rule books now that Sakurai is increasing the standards, who knows, he might be tweeked, but if not, he still wont be heavy weight.

Also, just because he has a heavy sword doesn't make him a heavy weight, and just because he's slow doesn't make him heavy weight.

 

[Zhilo]

ndeed. By Melee's standards, Link is a pretty slow swordman with a predictable recovery, but that doesn't make him heavy. Perhaps we will find ways to improve Ike's speed with yet to be discovered advanced techs, that would surely help him out. Of course, the ideal scenari would be for them to just fix his unbalancing weaknesses in time for launch.

 

[Hellbeing]

if you notice, hes more like roy than marth, slow but strong

(edit) well ... roy is not that slow, just slower than marth

 

[Saph66]

What are you guys referring to than by talking about "midweight" or "heavyweight" then? Because we know that he is slow and all. Just tell me what you mean by heavyweight and stuff, according to brawl standards.

I already explained to you what heavyweights can consist of, because you said that "strong ones" like Ike can't be heavyweight, yet he is slow cause of his weight/sword. I told you that a heavyweight characters can have all of those attributes like my example ganondorf, thats all.

But yea, heavyweight means slow characters, which Ike is, so I don't know what you're talking about......

 

[A New England Winter]

Ike is going to be LAME
If you were a true marth main you would know that

Your FACE is lame. Ohsnap.
Hehe, seriously, though, GTFO.

Anyways...But what of his walking, running, rolling, jumping and falling speeds? Most of the videos I've seen, he moves rather normally...His attacks are pretty slow, yes, but his walk/run was average speed...

 

[Raptorbite]

Anyone else notice that Ike has super armor frames (most likely) in some of his throws too?

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/images/basic08/basic08_071107e.jpg

Notice his sword is stuck in the ground there.

 

[Retroking2000]

Anyone else notice that Ike has super armor frames (most likely) in some of his throws too?

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/images/basic08/basic08_071107e.jpg

Notice his sword is stuck in the ground there.

I did not notice that thanks for the info

 

[Chaosblade77]

Anyone else notice that Ike has super armor frames (most likely) in some of his throws too?

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/basic/images/basic08/basic08_071107e.jpg

Notice his sword is stuck in the ground there.

I noticed that, but it's mid grab. That super armor would only be useful in a FFA match, I doubt your opponent is going to hit you while you have them grabbed. It also makes a difference based on how long it lasts too I suppose.

 

[Mr. Sunny Patch]

It says on the Smash Bros Dojo that Ike is invincible after he comes down from his Aether special.

 

[GenG]

Ike may be the only character with super armor in his taunt. How cool is that?

 

[Repryx]

I just wanted to say...Sakurai Made Ike Slow Because He Couldnt be Fire Emblem Radiant dawn (North America Version)

 

[Psydon]

Slow characters are harder to learn with, hence part of the reason why Ike is viewed as a horrid character.

Remember, people at the demo need to wait in line before they can play. So picking a character with a hard learning curve again and again, could make the game stale for them. I am sure after waiting half an hour, no one wants to lose with little chance just because all the nuances of the character have not yet been figured out.

Ike has range and strength. A few moves do come out fast. Ike probably has to rely on his throws for spacing and his quick attacks to give him some breathing room.

So against other heavy characters he has the advantage of having just as much range with added power due to his weapon. Plus Ike might be heavy himself even though his model size is slightly above average.

Against fast characters, Ike can probably outlast them on the stage as long as he isn't knocked off. Ike's recovery seems to be similar to Luigi's. One move for horizantal distance and one for vertical. Ike also has his counter. From what I hear it activates fast and has Roy Counter properties.

Conclusion: Ike is a defensive character that wants to stay midrange with his enemies. Throws and counter plus quick attacks can knock very offensive oppenents far enough away for his long range sword. And his forward smash looks like an effective edge guarder. In fact all his smashes probably are (giving him armor to withstand oncoming recovery attacks while delivering a powerful attack of his own).

He has two glaring weaknesses it seems.

1. Recovery: Predictable and limited. His recovery moves seem better as actual moves then means to recovery. And I am not sure how good his jumps are.

2. Projectile Target: Any shooting character is going to find it easy throwing Ike off guard with a barrage of shots, not allowing the slow swordsman the oppurnity to advance close enough.

There's also the potential of the Super Armour. Like Gimpy said in his video, one possibility with Ike is that you can take attacks while simultaneously dishing out your own. Your opponent will go somewhere, but you will not. And, if Sakurai has indeed changed his mind and modified the SA so that it also makes the character invincible during the SA frames, that only makes it even better.

I also think a major aspect of Ike's pure offense game (which in itself would be integrated into his defensive game; it has to be) will be anticipatory attacks, or doing attacks ahead of time with the idea that the opponent will get hit at the right moment, effectively rectifying the slow speed of some of Ike's attacks.

Then there's the possibility of doing Down+B attacks while shielding. If you remember, Sakurai said that Mario's FLUDD can be charged while shielding. The obvious application of this is that you charge while absorbing damage, and FLUDD sprays the moment you drop your shield.

By that same token, perhaps Ike will be able to Counter out of a shield. I plan to use Ike, and from the data we have I agree that he is meant to be a defensive fighter. Being able to Counter mid-shield would help such an aspect a LOT; we all know that.

And, of course, there's a technique we already know of: Up+B out of a shield. The good thing about Ike's Up+B is that it doesn't leave him helpless like most Up+Bs, and it seems like it would be hard, if at all possible, to DI out of. The application is wonderful: somebody does a close-range attack, like maybe a SHFFL sex kick or a dash attack, Ike shields through it and then immediately smacks the opponent around with Aether. The opponent goes somewhere, while Ike is safe, on the ground and mobile.

 

[Teh Lightning]

i am a marth player, and i plan to main ike, when brawl releases. i think is strength more than makes up for his slowness. from what i can tell, 1or 2 hits will knock them off the edge, then an easy edgeguard, while his super armor will keep him on the stage. while i by no means see him taking marths place on the tier list, i do see him not failing as bad as everyone thinks. also, everyone needs to remember, these assumptions are taken from the demo, whose to say they wont change him?

 

[Wing-Zero]

i agree with nowfist

i see ike as a better ganondorf with better range so he isnot a faliure
also, from what i've read , ike is not as slow as peoplesay so dont compare him to ssbm bowser

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Dude he is a heavy weight character, in brawl that is. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to be "BIG" to be heavy weight. Look at the two handed sword he is wielding, its freaking huge and heavy, thats why he is slowed down.

Take a look at Ganondorf, he is heavy weight, big, slow and strong, your argument doesn't make sense.

Christ!! Quit comparing ganon to Ike!!

Just because they are in the heavy weight category and one of then can do good doesn't mean the same will happen for Ike. Ganon has moves that allow him to attack safely from a distance, and he has attacks that start up quickly (Such as his Fair). Ike's moves have heavy pre and post lag, thus meaning that he can't approach an opponent safely like Ganon can.

Ike is not Ganon, and never will be. Ike is FREAKING SLOW!!!!!!! His attacks are SLOW!!! and his mobility is SLOW!! Most heavy characters have some attacks that come out fast (DK's Bair, Bowser's Fair, Ganon's Fair and Uair are examples of these) even if they are generally slow. Ike doesn't have any of these. If you didn't go to E For All or play with Ike, don't make clames of him having potential.

And for future notice about that Bair > Aether combo thing. It won't work because you can't reverse B moves in Brawl.

 

[Psydon]

Christ!! Quit comparing ganon to Ike!!

Just because they are in the heavy weight category and one of then can do good doesn't mean the same will happen for Ike. Ganon has moves that allow him to attack safely from a distance, and he has attacks that start up quickly (Such as his Fair). Ike's moves have heavy pre and post lag, thus meaning that he can't approach an opponent safely like Ganon can.

Ike is not Ganon, and never will be. Ike is FREAKING SLOW!!!!!!! His attacks are SLOW!!! and his mobility is SLOW!! Most heavy characters have some attacks that come out fast (DK's Bair, Bowser's Fair, Ganon's Fair and Uair are examples of these) even if they are generally slow. Ike doesn't have any of these. If you didn't go to E For All or play with Ike, don't make clames of him having potential.

And for future notice about that Bair > Aether combo thing. It won't work because you can't reverse B moves in Brawl.

I'm glad you stepped up on that issue. But, according to the Normal Moves topic, Ike's bair turns him around. Of course, I didn't go to E4A ( T_T ), but if that's true, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to chain Aether from Ike's bair, knockback and DI notwithstanding. Or, maybe you could do this:

Bair to Side B (if his bair doesn't turn him around, this certainly would) to Aether.

Edit: Ike has potential.