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If you could change PT....

JOE!

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Here's a fun idea for the most interesting character in Brawl: what if one were given the chance to tweak the three Pokémon to their liking?

As we all know, Pokémon trainer is the most unique character on the roster in that, simply put, he's actually 3 characters. However, unfortunately this idea wasn't very well executed as only Squirtle is "good" and the other two have issues and even share a lot of the same problems, which defeats the point of having 3 separate characters if most of the time only 1 of them is the good option! Another issue is the somewhat OOC (out of character) nature of each of the Pokémon. Why is Squirtle aerial-based? How come Ivysaur only has 1 razor leaf at a time? WTF is Charizard doing with Rock Smash?

This is where (in this thread at least) you come in.​

What would you think could be done to make the team more to your liking? You can do pretty much whatever you want as long as it's within reason, and by that I mean:

-Don't make it blatantly overpowered. (EX: Charizard has Fire Blast as Nspec and spams it like Falco's laser, does 18% on contact)

-Keep it to the current roster, anything else is a separate Trainer. (EX: Even changing it to like, Bulbasaur and Wartortle as opposed to completely different lines is a no-no)

-Don't go too out of character for the Pokémon. (EX: Sure, each of them can learn Toxic according to the games, but why would each of them somehow have the move for their Smash Reps?)

Building on that last one, try and avoid what is called by MYM'ers, "Pokémon Syndrome". P.S. is essentially slapping on moves the Pokémon can randomly learn as a filler input. The best example would be, again, Charizard randomly having Rock Smash.


As for what I'd personally change:​

:pt: : Make Pokémon Switch "aim-able". For example, you are Squirtle on the left BF platform. You press down B to return, hold right on the control stick, and then PT sends out Ivysaur's pokeball onto the right one. I mean, why not? he throws the pokeball after all, why not switch where he tosses it?

:squirtle: : Make Nspec "carry" foes as opposed to just push them. This would emulate the river on japes a bit, but on a much more controlled level, while making the spacing effect of the move a tad more potent as it will push even shielding opponents and opponents doing an attack.

:ivysaur: : Make Vine Whip a tad stronger when you hit the Tip, but a grab hitbox when sour-spotted. Similar to Bowser's melee Side B, and Lucario's Force Palm, hitting with the tip is a good attack on it's own, requiring tricky spacing and timing to hit it, but hitting it normally will result in the vine being wrapped around your foe, which can then lead to special gab moves or a pummel of sorts.

:charizard: : Make glide faster and replace glide attack with Seismic Toss :awesome: . Also put more fiery attacks/effects here and there.​


It's been a bit of a fad in the Make Your Move community to make "Trainer" sets, I'd like to see what the mains of a real one would think of when coming up with ideas for their trainer. Will you make each Pokémon better on a one to one basis, making sure each Pokémon can compete on it's own to enforce the idea of PT being a CP-safe character? Will you focus on making it more of a "team", where each poke helps the other one on the switch (for example Charizard making the area set on fire around the pokeball, making Squirtle safe on the switch, or having Ivysaur have "leech seed" which can heal the other Pokémon)

Have fun :D
 

T-block

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Mm....why not.

For Ivysaur, without question, I'd increase her max horizontal aerial speed, and I've mentioned why before. The type of character she is is undermined by her poor maneuverability in the air, and as a result she can't keep out opponents as well as she should be able to. It would also help a lot with recovery, since she's stuck with a tether =\

I'm not sure if there's a single obvious change I would make to the other two pokemon...
 

Geenareeno

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Make it so that you use your final smash according to whatever pokemon is out. Squirtle has hydro pump, or surf. Ivy has solar beam, like samus'. And charizard has seismic toss like ike's (man that would be bad ***). And most importantly why the **** can't squirtle swim.
 

IsmaR

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-Don't go too out of character for the Pokémon. (EX: Sure, each of them can learn Toxic according to the games, but why would each of them somehow have the move for their Smash Reps?)
Rock Smash. Rock Smash Rock Smash Rock Smash Rock Smash Rock Smash. Rock Smash.

Yeah I read the thread but this still had to be emphasized.
Now then.

Squirtle - Change Side B to Rapid Spin, make it somewhat controllable(think less than Yoshi's Side B when you don't hold B), and have it have a 'whirlwind' type effect where it sweeps up anything in it's path and maybe a little above it. Has stronger push/pull on lighter things, including items. Change down crouch to Withdraw when not crawling giving him limited super armor. Let it be able to use Dive in water(lol) and not drown. Lastly, change Water Gun so that the uncharged version comes out as Bubble, medium be Bubblebeam, and fully be Water Gun as JOE! described.

Ivysaur - Be able to slightly aim Bullet Seed, in a fashion similar to how she does Solarbeam. Doing it sideways straight sideways would be risky, but <3 looking. Change it so Vine Whip uses both vines(1st one would hit anyone on the ledge, 2nd would reach for it) or at least let it not go into falling state/animation. Alter Up Smash/Up/Down Air to leave small spores/'clouds' that last for 1-2 seconds depending on your altitude, and have a random effect(paralysis ala Mewtwo's Down B, poison ala White Pikmen, and Sleep Powder ala Jigg's Sing). Turn Down Smash into Grass Knot/always trip, and be more powerful on heavier opponents. Lastly, be able to shoot more than 1 Razor Leaf or at least shoot it more quickly/manually curve it.

Charizard - Give it another Up B other than the pathetic Fly-in-name-only thing it has now. At least make it go a bit higher, or have more of t3h ph1r3. Buff Up Smash to turn into Steel Wing when mid-fully charged, somewhat sucking them in/hitting similarly to Link's D-air. Buff his air speed, and lower his fall speed if all jumps have been exhausted. Turn D-tilt/Grab Attack into Fire Fang. Finally, give his aerials a bit less ending lag, specifically U/D-air.

Overall/Aesthetic/Other - Change the color of the Pokeball depending on your color/costume choice. Normal has regular, red has Cherish/Repeat Ball, blue be Great/Dive Ball, green be Dusk/Nest Ball, white have Premier Balls. A 6th alt be added with each of their shiny forms, all in Ultra/Luxury/Master Balls, and PT have his "retro" or original Red look. Choosing/moving where your Pokeball lands would be mint, too. Holding shield when on the victory screen makes PT call out all three Pokes. Tapping Up/Down taunts fast enough act as Helping Hand for the next Pokemon, which makes them tire out slower/recover faster depending on their stamina. Add an unlockable option to play as only one character(if you press A+B+Select obv). Also make them counter Meta Knight.



-

All I can think of atm for some small changes.
 

JOE!

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unfortunatley smashes only "change" when at full charge, also why hasnt this gotten more attention? :p
 

TheGeerz

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Make Ivy better (what everyone said)
Everything else is pretty good... Except make Charizard have 3 jumps
 

Tesh

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It would be really cool if ivy had a special grab that spiked people. Sort of how dthrow looks, but they don't bounce and they can't tech (like ganon's). This would combo into dash attack on bigger characters and yield a useful tech chase into upsmash sometimes. Vine whip would also be able to grab walls and allow ivysaur to recover similar to lucario can on some stages.

It would be cool is electricity mattered as far as type weaknesses. Weak against Ivysaur, strong against squirtle. Uncharged water gun should be bubble beam and trap foes in a bubble like similar to yoshi's egg lay (a projectile grab would be SWEET).

Charizard's Fly should work like metaknight's shuttle loop. Invulnerability first turn, powerful attack swoops down 2nd turn. Charizard would have 5 jumps like DDD and fall faster.

Fatigue wouldn't have a timer, but rather a counter for attacks only (not time).

Pokemon switch forwards and backwards (so from squirtle you can go to zard or ivy if you want)
 

Steeler

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there are a lot of simple things you could do. this topic has been brought up countless times and i hate posting in them because i always end up whining








but i'm bored so

stamina is so stupid, you are already forced to switch when you die and if you are going to switch again, back to the original pokemon, you should be allowed to do that without any 'punishment' (ie stamina) for going back because you either

1. created your opening and switched it in safely
2. switched it in unsafely and took some notable (20%+) damage

just like the pokemon games :|

make pokemon at 100% or something have some kind of attack power boost (torrent, overgrow, blaze...). this makes so much sense. your pokemon is not going to be coming back out for a while since it'll switch on death, so it's kind of a 'last hurrah' on your pokemon's part to do work for its trainer. you figure red is a good enough trainer that his pokemon try harder the tougher the fight gets, not weaken as if they only watch tv all day.

able to rearrange your pokemon team order, ie ivysaur to squirtle, etc

able to switch during invincibility after respawn, just like zelda/sheik

able to switch during attack cooldown (had this been melee + faster loading times, it could have led to some pretty ****** combos)

the type vulnerabilities are ******** when two of the types are exclusive to pokemon trainer and the other is pretty widespread, meaning that ivysaur gets shafted for a dumb reason

that's about it for pokemon trainer mechanics. when you consider the possibilities, you have to acknowledge that sakurai left a lot of cool possibilities on the table.

as for the pokemon themselves, squirtle is ****** enough and pretty much everything i wanted when i first thought up movesets for him back in '02. i always thought he'd have the anime hydro pump as his up b though, where it's basically bowser fortress with water jets shooting out of his shell openings. and i figured he'd steal skull bash from pikachu for the side b since it's almost a signature move for him. the initial charging animation can have current withdraw properties. and mirror coat for down b, but lol pt.

ivysaur's leech seed (down b) would have worked exactly like snake c4, so you could plant it on your opponent or anywhere else, except it heals ivysaur as well as damaging the opponent. a latched pikmin trap with healing properties...would fit a lot with ivysaur's supposed focus on stage control. plus cool doubles possibilities, and an attached leech seed would still heal your other pokemon if you switched before the seed was gone.

the grab box vine whip is a cool idea but i'd rather a 'normal' up b like, let's say solarbeam that you aim and propels you in the opposite direction or petal dance, which would create a gust of wind while creating a barrier of leaves around ivysaur. razor wind would work too. vine whip can just be a normal Z tether.

ivysaur's grabs are weird and should not be anywhere near as laggy as they are. every single other fuggin tether character uses an EXTERNAL APPARATUS to grab their foes. IVYSAUR IS USING AN APPENDAGE. **** that.

ivysaur always seemed like it should be the technician of the group. razor leaf being a better trap would fit that. and i guess the vine whip grab thing, but that seems like such a weird concept to me.

it'd be nice if zard fair were a good spacing move and his recovery were as good as it "should" be. various fly buffs have been suggested, all of which are cool. i think he should have had anime seismic toss, so kind of like a mix of ganon up b and side b. it'd be lame if your main recovery move made you suicide though so possibly some kind of control for that would be nice. a variation on fire spin would have worked too.

but really, charizard's design does make sense since he's kind of a powerhouse that doesn't worry about linking moves together, it's just a bunch of strong, threatening moves that don't really coexist well. but the moves themselves aren't really good enough to make that work competitively.

the fact that squirtle and charizard copied mario/bowser's special moves always bothered me though. so yeah bubblebeam or whatever, and flame wheel (charging attack) or something

it would have been pretty cool if PT had a full team of six and you had to choose 3 to use per battle. PBR rules or whatever. this would pretty much require all of your opponents to call double blind though lol, and it'd be easy for this to be broken since with 6 different characters, chances are you'd never have a bad matchup

/whine
 

IsmaR

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Tbh, it would've been cooler if PT's FS was them doing their signature/elemental Hyper Beam moves, individually or maybe combined like Triple Finish. Frenzy Plant would've looked epic in Brawl, while Hydro Cannon/Blast Burn wouldn't be too different from Fire Blast/Hydro Pump(Blast Burn causes a huge explosion, Hydro Cannon could like the aforementioned 'anime Hydro Pump,' or just a Zero Laser-ish attack but with Water).

Meanwhile, their "signature" move be reassigned to regular specials, but chargeable, kinda like the Bubble-Water Gun(or Water Gun-Hydro Pump in this case) and flying SolarBeam Up B ideas suggested. Charizard could have shot fireballs(ala Ember) if you tap B, and Fire Blast if you charge it all the way(maybe Flamethrower as a middle, though I hate how limited it is in Brawl).

Boo whining.
 

T-block

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Why do you type in italics all the time?

I don't think stamina is stupid, Steeler. I think stamina+forced switch, while slightly redundant, is perfectly fine design-wise. The problem is that the three are so imbalanced that this feature almost doesn't even add depth, and becomes more of a straight-up nerf to your best pokemon. There's also the fact that the three tend to have common weaknesses.

Man, Charizard would be so **** if f-air had strong knockback for the entire move x.x
 

Kuraudo

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I'd make it so that you can stick with one Pokémon for the entire fight without signs of fatigue, akin to Zelda and Sheik.

If I could do that, I'd be using Charizard as a secondary, no questions asked.
 

hurricanehans

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Yea i always thought seismic toss would make a great dthrow. Ivy really does need a good buffin' too, but then again, most of my suggestions would be pure buffs. lol.
 

Bomber7

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WTF is Charizard doing with Rock Smash?
What isn't he doing with Rocksmash; it is a grade A prioritay. :cool:

Anyway, it's nice and all that this is another "PT has been screwed out of a fair chance to be good and was poorly put together and we should fix that" movement. We have had threads upon threads and discussions upon discussions about what we don't like about our character and what would be the best solution for him. Unless you personally are a master game programmer and have reprogrammed Brawl to where PT is where he needs to be then, there is nothing we can do other than put our opinions out there and hope someone reads them.

I'd like to point out that the whole point of my post is that we are keeping rocksmash.
 

JOE!

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Bomber, the point is that while yes, Rock Smash is an awesome move, character-wise why the hell is CHARIZARD USING IT?

Is he just Red's HM slave for god knows why?

the point of this thread is to creativley "re-work" PT to more accuratley protray his pokemon the way they should have been, both mechanically and thematically
 

Bomber7

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the point of this thread is to creativley "re-work" PT to more accuratley protray his pokemon the way they should have been, both mechanically and thematically
If you want creative, then give all the pokemon the ability to use Link's bombs from 64. If you could do that, then I would be the best player in the world. :cool:
 

JOE!

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again: why the hell would they have link's bombs?

thats not creative, thats just "wtf?"
 

JOE!

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@Steeler's suggestion of a 6 man roster you pick 3 out of:

Who would the other 3 pokemon be?

I'm gonna assume like...Pidgeotto? :p
 

hurricanehans

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Red from the pokemon games carried Pikachu, snorlax and lapras/espeon in addition to the 3 kanto starters. Pidgeotto would be an awesome character imo with some good aerial mobility. I'd imagine snorlax would have something similar to kirby/D3's neutral special and then he'd chew them like yoshi.
 

Bomber7

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Pidgeot imo. He's a ******. He is the original King of the Skies, alas, like Link, he has been nerfed more and more with each new generation.
 

JOE!

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well, id say there be 2 of each:

Non evolved (Squirtle and ___)

1st stage (Ivysaur and ___)

2nd stage (Charizard and ___)

Supposing it'd be Pidgeotto and Snorlax taking 2nd and 3rd spots, whod be the 1st form?

cant be pika as...you know...pikachu is allready here
 
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